From cwlee@post.harvard.edu Mon Jun 1 00:14:27 2009 Received: from elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n514EOMA001592 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 00:14:24 -0400 Received: from [66.81.251.22] (helo=System4) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MAyuk-0006oj-Ot; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 00:14:24 -0400 Message-ID: From: "CWLee" To: , , , , , References: <003a01c9e263$ef229330$cd67b990$@net> In-Reply-To: <003a01c9e263$ef229330$cd67b990$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 X-ELNK-Trace: 7141e3bbddc8a6d4f1b7fbad2ae65da374bf435c0eb9d4784edcf1b786a61d0565b4140ba9688afa922b1544a5af1bde350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.81.251.22 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 04:14:28 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:13:39 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 04:14:28 -0000 OK, here are my comments: 1. Murder is a crime. The suspect(s) deserves a fair trial and, if found guilty, punishment. I generally favor capital punishment for murder. 2. I know of no connection between this murder and poly issues, so I don't understand why the poly community has any more concerns or need to speak out about this than any other subset of society. 3. The victim is described as someone "who stood for his principles and would not back down from what he thought was right". Although I know nothing about the suspect(s) in this case, the same statement ("he stood for his principles and would not back down from what he thought was right") can be made about some previous killers/shooters of abortion facilitators. 4. Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, to know when to accept, for the good of the greater society, laws with which we personally disagree - and when to stand by our principles and disobey the laws of society. That applies to both sides of many recent issues in the USA. Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be ignored. Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. ---------- CWLee Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited to sacred cows. Believing we should hire for quality, not quotas, and promote for performance, not preferences. ======================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Heinsohn" To: ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder >I think it's appropriate for the poly community to think >about and talk > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good physician who > stood for his > principles and would not back down from what he thought > was right even > after being shot in the early 90's and being harassed by > Kansas's former > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as steadfastly on my > principles. May > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the > transparent tattered veils > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > Christine Heinsohn From miss_faery_maria@yahoo.com Mon Jun 1 01:39:05 2009 Received: from web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.37.69]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n515bpPY007329 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:39:01 -0400 Received: (qmail 58058 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jun 2009 05:37:51 -0000 Message-ID: <182880.55970.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: i7X8DDMVM1kQn3XyFiJAfs7AgxN1MxYygyUuA7EaZs7z0kxJIjdltZx2pi2R2BksJLCjEYm82IaHOYpu2tX1MZxv4tDURLSF.D.3E5EmXhJTDJz9JGHEJ.gH7VOoBiyTc7ZV_nH7NfvvWJj1DLG3LsNY9PY4Kvd4EgFYplpuY36QNa234YjgdBClssRCEyY_Ds4LA8VNwO9VZNY3znLFp_MYlxIdOVdIWwVJsAqY9vYCgBHzoE6WZEZKh7bVC1wmQbjxFa0lTz3qiTqymebV1GT5IdskKK_4OifQmlIN0TwxJbWFvTDKwa5ZF8hl8MGcp_xGynSqFQ-- Received: from [70.179.139.221] by web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 31 May 2009 22:37:50 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.4.12 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 From: Maria Snyder To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 05:39:05 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 05:39:05 -0000 While I don't know about all the poly groups that were copied on this, I do= think that this is an issue that is near and dear to many UU's, as Dr.Till= er stood up for reproductive rights. As a Kansan, a UU, a Dir. of Religious= Ed., and a mom=A0I am interested in=A0the topic and=A0I think that Christi= ne's thoughts are relevent to=A0at least the UU group.=20 =A0 Maria=A0 --- On Sun, 5/31/09, CWLee wrote: From: CWLee Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder To: uupoly-l@uupa.org, KanPoly@yahoogroups.com, OKPoly@yahoogroups.com, mwp= oly@yahoogroups.com, harp@yahoogroups.com, wnypoly@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 11:13 PM OK, here are my comments: 1.=A0 Murder is a crime.=A0 The suspect(s) deserves a fair trial=20 and, if found guilty, punishment.=A0 I generally favor capital=20 punishment for murder. 2.=A0 I know of no connection between this murder and poly=20 issues, so I don't understand why the poly community has any=20 more concerns or need to speak out about this than any other=20 subset of society. 3.=A0 The victim is described as someone "who stood for his principles and would not back down from what he thought was=20 right".=A0 Although I know nothing about the suspect(s) in=20 this case, the same statement ("he stood for his principles=20 and would not back down from what he thought was right") can=20 be made about some previous killers/shooters of abortion=20 facilitators. 4.=A0 Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, to know=20 when to accept, for the good of the greater society, laws=20 with which we personally disagree - and when to stand by our=20 principles and disobey the laws of society.=A0 That applies to=20 both sides of many recent issues in the USA. Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be ignored. Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. ---------- CWLee Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited to sacred cows.=A0 Believing we should hire for quality, not quotas, and promote for performance, not preferences. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Christine Heinsohn" To: ; ;=20 ; ;=20 ; Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder >I think it's appropriate for the poly community to think=20 >about and talk > about this murder.=A0 Dr. Tiller was a good physician who=20 > stood for his > principles and would not back down from what=A0 he thought=20 > was right even > after being shot in the early 90's and being harassed by=20 > Kansas's former > Attorney General.=A0 I hope I can stand as steadfastly on my=20 > principles.=A0 May > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the=20 > transparent tattered veils > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > Christine Heinsohn _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l =0A=0A=0A From WABaldwin@aol.com Mon Jun 1 19:12:41 2009 Received: from imo-m11.mail.aol.com (imo-m11.mx.aol.com [64.12.143.99]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n51NBSD9005220 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 19:12:38 -0400 Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imo-m11.mail.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-44a245fe12a7; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:10:25 -0400 Received: from WABaldwin@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id g.c01.609345a6 (37133) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 19:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-db02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-db02.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.153]) by cia-ma02.mx.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA027-5bca4a245fd62fa; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:10:20 -0400 Received: from WEBMAIL-MA13 (webmail-ma13.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.77]) by smtprly-db02.mx.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDB021-5bca4a245fd62fa; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:10:14 -0400 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.138 X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 From: wabaldwin@aol.com X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 42952-STANDARD Received: from 153.18.227.47 by WEBMAIL-MA13.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.77) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:10:14 -0400 Message-Id: <8CBB1254166BD26-F98-6FF@WEBMAIL-MA13.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Cheney Speaks X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:12:42 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:10:14 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:12:42 -0000 Ex-VP Cheney is now quoted as saying, in regards to gay marriage: "I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone.? I think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish, any kind of arrangement they wish." Golly -- Could he also be supporting poly-marriage?!?!?! (I don't think so...? Maybe he just speaks before he thinks? -- Kinda the way he shoots before double-checking the target......?) Bill Baldwin From polydvh@gmail.com Mon Jun 1 19:17:55 2009 Received: from yw-out-1718.google.com (yw-out-1718.google.com [74.125.46.153]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n51NHpaH006291 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 19:17:52 -0400 Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 4so5248299ywq.2 for ; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:16:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.125.14 with SMTP id x14mr7902758anc.136.1243898210665; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:16:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8CBB1254166BD26-F98-6FF@WEBMAIL-MA13.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBB1254166BD26-F98-6FF@WEBMAIL-MA13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: From: david vanhorn To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Cheney Speaks X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:17:55 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 19:16:50 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:17:55 -0000 On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 7:10 PM, wrote: > Ex-VP Cheney is now quoted as saying, in regards to gay marriage: > > "I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone.? I think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish, any kind of arrangement they wish." > > Golly -- Could he also be supporting poly-marriage?!?!?! > > (I don't think so...? Maybe he just speaks before he thinks? -- Kinda the way he shoots before double-checking the target......?) I say we take him up on it! -- http://www.libchrist.com/phoenix/healing.html From hazelstars@msn.com Mon Jun 1 20:17:20 2009 Received: from blu0-omc2-s7.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc2-s7.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.82]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n520G5cC011227 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 20:17:15 -0400 Received: from BLU113-W33 ([65.55.111.73]) by blu0-omc2-s7.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 1 Jun 2009 17:15:40 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [67.142.165.26] From: James F To: Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 2009 00:15:40.0323 (UTC) FILETIME=[42EB2730:01C9E317] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:17:20 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 18:15:40 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:17:20 -0000 I am partially still of older ethics concerning abortion. I love babies and= want to make more of them when I find the right fertile woman for myself.= =20 To me this doctor was a joke of a christian=2C killing babies [while being = an usher at church on Sundays] in last trimester term who should have been = put up for adoption. They are fully formed=2C fully human=2C not a stupid v= alueless term called fetus. While babies are being killed every 10 seconds= =20 there are tear jerking commericals on TV for mistreated pet animals: cats a= nd dogs telling pets are mistreated every 10 seconds=2C=20 while at the same time=2C millions of babies are aborted.....duhhhh WTF!!!?= ?? Roe vrs Wade=2C three months later=2C TADAAA: Fish and Wildlife Preservatio= n ACT {including plants} Sorry=2C I think some things have gone off center too much numb non-thinkin= g. The guy who shot the doctor had enough conviction as well as the doctor = who thought he was doing a great service killing the unborn human. Fetus is= a catch phrase to lessen the guilt of what is done. The new behind the ski= n untra sound/vision equipment says it all=2C shows it all. =20 Then all these cat/dog tear jerking commercials wanting people to feel sorr= y for the animals=2C true that is a cruel thing to do to animals=2C how muc= h more to tear apart a baby as if it were dung being disected? If any comments com= e back blasting me well ya'll know what you can do. SEX is one thing=2C mul= ti wives/husbands is another thing - IT was not wrong in the Old Testament= =2C was not considered wrong until Mr. ST. Paul gave out macho ideas agains= t woman and anti sex the convenient bad translations used in KJV. Yes I am= opinionated too=2C not a follower of BS following the crowd group think fe= eling sorry for this doctor. If freedom of my speech is not welcom=2C owel= l... regards Jim=2C =20 > From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > Subject: UUPoly-L Digest=2C Vol 57=2C Issue 1 > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Mon=2C 1 Jun 2009 12:00:11 -0400 >=20 > Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to > uupoly-l@uupa.org >=20 > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web=2C visit > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > or=2C via email=2C send a message with subject or body 'help' to > uupoly-l-request@uupa.org >=20 > You can reach the person managing the list at > uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org >=20 > When replying=2C please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." >=20 >=20 > Today's Topics: >=20 > 1. Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Christine Heinsohn) > 2. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (CWLee) > 3. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Maria Snyder) >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Message: 1 > Date: Sun=2C 31 May 2009 21:51:39 -0500 > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > To: =2C =2C > =2C =2C > =2C > Message-ID: <003a01c9e263$ef229330$cd67b990$@net> > Content-Type: text/plain=3B charset=3D"US-ASCII" >=20 > I think it's appropriate for the poly community to think about and talk > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good physician who stood for his > principles and would not back down from what he thought was right even > after being shot in the early 90's and being harassed by Kansas's former > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as steadfastly on my principles. May > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the transparent tattered ve= ils > of religion wherever I find it. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Christine Heinsohn >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------ >=20 > Message: 2 > Date: Sun=2C 31 May 2009 21:13:39 -0700 > From: "CWLee" > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > To: =2C =2C > =2C =2C > =2C > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain=3B format=3Dflowed=3B charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=3B > reply-type=3Doriginal >=20 >=20 > OK=2C here are my comments: >=20 > 1. Murder is a crime. The suspect(s) deserves a fair trial=20 > and=2C if found guilty=2C punishment. I generally favor capital=20 > punishment for murder. >=20 > 2. I know of no connection between this murder and poly=20 > issues=2C so I don't understand why the poly community has any=20 > more concerns or need to speak out about this than any other=20 > subset of society. >=20 > 3. The victim is described as someone "who stood for his > principles and would not back down from what he thought was=20 > right". Although I know nothing about the suspect(s) in=20 > this case=2C the same statement ("he stood for his principles=20 > and would not back down from what he thought was right") can=20 > be made about some previous killers/shooters of abortion=20 > facilitators. >=20 > 4. Sometimes it can be very difficult=2C morally=2C to know=20 > when to accept=2C for the good of the greater society=2C laws=20 > with which we personally disagree - and when to stand by our=20 > principles and disobey the laws of society. That applies to=20 > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. >=20 > Rational dialog welcome=3B emotional rants will be ignored. >=20 > Best regards to all=2C Chuck Lee. >=20 > ---------- > CWLee > Former slayer of dragons=3B practice now limited to sacred > cows. Believing we should hire for quality=2C not quotas=2C and > promote for performance=2C not preferences. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > To: =3B =3B=20 > =3B =3B=20 > =3B > Sent: Sunday=2C May 31=2C 2009 7:51 PM > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder >=20 >=20 > >I think it's appropriate for the poly community to think=20 > >about and talk > > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good physician who=20 > > stood for his > > principles and would not back down from what he thought=20 > > was right even > > after being shot in the early 90's and being harassed by=20 > > Kansas's former > > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as steadfastly on my=20 > > principles. May > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the=20 > > transparent tattered veils > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn >=20 >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------ >=20 > Message: 3 > Date: Sun=2C 31 May 2009 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT) > From: Maria Snyder > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Message-ID: <182880.55970.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain=3B charset=3Diso-8859-1 >=20 > While I don't know about all the poly groups that were copied on this=2C = I do think that this is an issue that is near and dear to many UU's=2C as D= r.Tiller stood up for reproductive rights. As a Kansan=2C a UU=2C a Dir. of= Religious Ed.=2C and a mom?I am interested in?the topic and?I think that C= hristine's thoughts are relevent to?at least the UU group.=20 > ? > Maria? >=20 > --- On Sun=2C 5/31/09=2C CWLee wrote: >=20 >=20 > From: CWLee > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org=2C KanPoly@yahoogroups.com=2C OKPoly@yahoogroups.co= m=2C mwpoly@yahoogroups.com=2C harp@yahoogroups.com=2C wnypoly@yahoogroups.= com > Date: Sunday=2C May 31=2C 2009=2C 11:13 PM >=20 >=20 >=20 > OK=2C here are my comments: >=20 > 1.? Murder is a crime.? The suspect(s) deserves a fair trial=20 > and=2C if found guilty=2C punishment.? I generally favor capital=20 > punishment for murder. >=20 > 2.? I know of no connection between this murder and poly=20 > issues=2C so I don't understand why the poly community has any=20 > more concerns or need to speak out about this than any other=20 > subset of society. >=20 > 3.? The victim is described as someone "who stood for his > principles and would not back down from what he thought was=20 > right".? Although I know nothing about the suspect(s) in=20 > this case=2C the same statement ("he stood for his principles=20 > and would not back down from what he thought was right") can=20 > be made about some previous killers/shooters of abortion=20 > facilitators. >=20 > 4.? Sometimes it can be very difficult=2C morally=2C to know=20 > when to accept=2C for the good of the greater society=2C laws=20 > with which we personally disagree - and when to stand by our=20 > principles and disobey the laws of society.? That applies to=20 > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. >=20 > Rational dialog welcome=3B emotional rants will be ignored. >=20 > Best regards to all=2C Chuck Lee. >=20 > ---------- > CWLee > Former slayer of dragons=3B practice now limited to sacred > cows.? Believing we should hire for quality=2C not quotas=2C and > promote for performance=2C not preferences. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > To: =3B =3B=20 > =3B =3B=20 > =3B > Sent: Sunday=2C May 31=2C 2009 7:51 PM > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder >=20 >=20 > >I think it's appropriate for the poly community to think=20 > >about and talk > > about this murder.? Dr. Tiller was a good physician who=20 > > stood for his > > principles and would not back down from what? he thought=20 > > was right even > > after being shot in the early 90's and being harassed by=20 > > Kansas's former > > Attorney General.? I hope I can stand as steadfastly on my=20 > > principles.? May > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the=20 > > transparent tattered veils > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn >=20 > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >=20 >=20 > End of UUPoly-L Digest=2C Vol 57=2C Issue 1 > *************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tut= orial_QuickAdd1_052009= From desmondravenstone@yahoo.com Mon Jun 1 20:45:43 2009 Received: from web50509.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web50509.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.38.246]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n520jfmm013809 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 20:45:41 -0400 Received: (qmail 80794 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jun 2009 00:45:41 -0000 Message-ID: <172417.79638.qm@web50509.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: L3xgTtAVM1lEy1ErKy14EshTsaT1MrF6BFb.j5vK4DX0H1EjKMRDQMNVjYVANP4gJrIlGqx1zQV3KVjNCBRUb8V312B5f2aS4yWsM2ZSAiMGFxCYf.2nhvHfw4Nq0HZUP31G4yEFRRmkndCk_RuDwbq1wuDYYKSO2q2sHxM1o7fUCTOP00bFKxtrET3mYM01LPzYWIfV8Bzi2GYuz.0_vEh3EH9LvWX.TP789TGDlhmjM5zU9BJOgtln3beosgYYeeLmxSx8Lt905ne9vUZyxrUxmQ081P_yrXMrpLH567iREC71LDLbJx84zY5hlOZOmYk- Received: from [174.153.128.19] by web50509.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:45:40 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.4.12 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 From: Desmond Ravenstone To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id n520jfmm013809 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Defending George Tiller X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:45:43 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 17:45:40 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:45:43 -0000 With all due respect to James F ... Dr. Tiller did not perform late-term abortions lightly. Time after time, he saw women with crisis pregnancies involving severe fetal anomalies, including anencephaly (where the fetus does not develop most of the brain, skull and scalp). Twelve years ago, he and his staff invited legislators, clergy and media to attend a "clinic experience" -- including some who had been arrested in protests blockading the clinic. Each guest was given a patient profile, describing the medial realities in painful detail, then walked through the process that a patient went through with the staff. In George Tiller's own words: “It makes absolutely no sense to do all the prenatal testing if you get all this information and can’t do anything about it. My feeling is that prenatal testing without prenatal choice is medical fraud.” Desmond Ravenstone "Do not do unto others as you expect they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same." -- George Bernard Shaw http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone --- On Mon, 6/1/09, James F wrote: > From: James F > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 8:15 PM > > I am partially still of older ethics concerning abortion. I > love babies and want to make more of them when I find the > right fertile woman for myself. > To me this doctor was a joke of a christian, killing babies > [while being an usher at church on Sundays] in last > trimester term who should have been put up for adoption. > They are fully formed, fully human, not a stupid valueless > term called fetus. While babies are being killed every 10 > seconds > > there are tear jerking commericals on TV for mistreated pet > animals: cats and dogs telling pets are mistreated every 10 > seconds, > > while at the same time, millions of babies are > aborted.....duhhhh WTF!!!??? > > Roe vrs Wade, three months later, TADAAA: Fish and Wildlife > Preservation ACT {including plants} > > Sorry, I think some things have gone off center too much > numb non-thinking. The guy who shot the doctor had enough > conviction as well as the doctor who thought he was doing a > great service killing the unborn human. Fetus is a catch > phrase to lessen the guilt of what is done. The new behind > the skin untra sound/vision equipment says it all, shows it > all.  > > Then all these cat/dog tear jerking commercials wanting > people to feel sorry for the animals, true that is a cruel > thing to do to animals, how much more > > to tear apart a baby as if it were dung being disected? If > any comments come back blasting me well ya'll know what you > can do. SEX is one thing, multi wives/husbands is another > thing - IT was not wrong in the Old Testament, was not > considered wrong until Mr. ST. Paul gave out macho ideas > against woman and anti sex the convenient bad translations > used in KJV.  Yes I am opinionated too, not a follower > of BS following the crowd group think feeling sorry for this > doctor.  If freedom of my speech is not welcom, > owell... > > regards Jim, > >       > > From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > > Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:00:11 -0400 > > > > Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to > > uupoly-l@uupa.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > > uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is > more specific > > than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Christine Heinsohn) > > 2. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (CWLee) > > 3. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Maria Snyder) > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:51:39 -0500 > > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > To: , > , > > , > , > > , > > > Message-ID: > <003a01c9e263$ef229330$cd67b990$@net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > I think it's appropriate for the poly community to > think about and talk > > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good physician who > stood for his > > principles and would not back down from what he > thought was right even > > after being shot in the early 90's and being harassed > by Kansas's former > > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as steadfastly on > my principles. May > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the > transparent tattered veils > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:13:39 -0700 > > From: "CWLee" > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > To: , > , > > , > , > > , > > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > > reply-type=original > > > > > > OK, here are my comments: > > > > 1. Murder is a crime. The suspect(s) deserves a fair > trial > > and, if found guilty, punishment. I generally favor > capital > > punishment for murder. > > > > 2. I know of no connection between this murder and > poly > > issues, so I don't understand why the poly community > has any > > more concerns or need to speak out about this than any > other > > subset of society. > > > > 3. The victim is described as someone "who stood for > his > > principles and would not back down from what he > thought was > > right". Although I know nothing about the suspect(s) > in > > this case, the same statement ("he stood for his > principles > > and would not back down from what he thought was > right") can > > be made about some previous killers/shooters of > abortion > > facilitators. > > > > 4. Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, to > know > > when to accept, for the good of the greater society, > laws > > with which we personally disagree - and when to stand > by our > > principles and disobey the laws of society. That > applies to > > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. > > > > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be > ignored. > > > > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. > > > > ---------- > > CWLee > > Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited to > sacred > > cows. Believing we should hire for quality, not > quotas, and > > promote for performance, not preferences. > > > > ======================== > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > > To: ; > ; > > > ; > ; > > > ; > > > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > > > > > >I think it's appropriate for the poly community to > think > > >about and talk > > > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good > physician who > > > stood for his > > > principles and would not back down from what he > thought > > > was right even > > > after being shot in the early 90's and being > harassed by > > > Kansas's former > > > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as > steadfastly on my > > > principles. May > > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the > > > > transparent tattered veils > > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Maria Snyder > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > > Message-ID: <182880.55970.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > While I don't know about all the poly groups that were > copied on this, I do think that this is an issue that is > near and dear to many UU's, as Dr.Tiller stood up for > reproductive rights. As a Kansan, a UU, a Dir. of Religious > Ed., and a mom?I am interested in?the topic and?I think that > Christine's thoughts are relevent to?at least the UU group. > > > ? > > Maria? > > > > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, CWLee > wrote: > > > > > > From: CWLee > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org, > KanPoly@yahoogroups.com, > OKPoly@yahoogroups.com, > mwpoly@yahoogroups.com, > harp@yahoogroups.com, > wnypoly@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 11:13 PM > > > > > > > > OK, here are my comments: > > > > 1.? Murder is a crime.? The suspect(s) deserves a fair > trial > > and, if found guilty, punishment.? I generally favor > capital > > punishment for murder. > > > > 2.? I know of no connection between this murder and > poly > > issues, so I don't understand why the poly community > has any > > more concerns or need to speak out about this than any > other > > subset of society. > > > > 3.? The victim is described as someone "who stood for > his > > principles and would not back down from what he > thought was > > right".? Although I know nothing about the suspect(s) > in > > this case, the same statement ("he stood for his > principles > > and would not back down from what he thought was > right") can > > be made about some previous killers/shooters of > abortion > > facilitators. > > > > 4.? Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, to > know > > when to accept, for the good of the greater society, > laws > > with which we personally disagree - and when to stand > by our > > principles and disobey the laws of society.? That > applies to > > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. > > > > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be > ignored. > > > > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. > > > > ---------- > > CWLee > > Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited to > sacred > > cows.? Believing we should hire for quality, not > quotas, and > > promote for performance, not preferences. > > > > ======================== > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > > To: ; > ; > > > ; > ; > > > ; > > > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > > > > > >I think it's appropriate for the poly community to > think > > >about and talk > > > about this murder.? Dr. Tiller was a good > physician who > > > stood for his > > > principles and would not back down from what? he > thought > > > was right even > > > after being shot in the early 90's and being > harassed by > > > Kansas's former > > > Attorney General.? I hope I can stand as > steadfastly on my > > > principles.? May > > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the > > > > transparent tattered veils > > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to > reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to > reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > > End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > > *************************************** > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From pbadancer77@yahoo.com Mon Jun 1 20:54:34 2009 Received: from web51504.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web51504.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.38.196]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n520sXtl016014 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 20:54:33 -0400 Received: (qmail 34478 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jun 2009 00:54:33 -0000 Message-ID: <164965.34434.qm@web51504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: ZWOTdnoVM1ke.MJCCqmzdMrP1ZowPECkIBKnU8PjKXQhlKCCFVxsoGCcddRTHFUaG27Rwd_TbC3bvwKcO2XEYGxr9vxpyLcAJx8Qef9AhRq2pbKrMLZUgE_UgMmrHXO6ta90CE0nTNxTQVhGx1XT8PD0UvaK8WIYOiNlFav04_rwRKdjCKdN0EhX84GZy.yO0kmhSqST6O6R4J6Ry42I1WJsqiXMtx.xvk_o0fgZfZX0Dy9nsBREbDCQ0W6.ej3HraZgwpfBhB0U5t1ftCti5s6YHEcfc0NGGtqrxMrwMJJqBUysW9S.Q8uCkK83zK5ORD53Dg-- Received: from [209.11.184.1] by web51504.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:54:32 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.3.9 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 From: Patrice To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Cheney Speaks X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: pbadancer77@yahoo.com, uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:54:34 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 17:54:32 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:54:34 -0000 Cheney's Daughter is an activist in the LGBT community. I wonder if Goldwater had a queer relative, since he spoke for gay rights in his older years? --Patrice ----------------------------------------------------- "If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution." --Emma Goldman --- On Mon, 6/1/09, wabaldwin@aol.com wrote: > From: wabaldwin@aol.com > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Cheney Speaks > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 4:10 PM > Ex-VP Cheney is now quoted as saying, > in regards to gay marriage: > > "I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone.? I > think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of > union they wish, any kind of arrangement they wish." > > Golly -- Could he also be supporting poly-marriage?!?!?! > > (I don't think so...? Maybe he just speaks before he > thinks? -- Kinda the way he shoots before double-checking > the target......?) > > Bill Baldwin > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From fauxqui@comcast.net Mon Jun 1 21:01:34 2009 Received: from QMTA05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.48]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5210Nki017125 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:01:33 -0400 Message-Id: <200906020101.n5210Nki017125@msb.ernest-doss.org> Received: from OMTA09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.20]) by QMTA05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id yaN41b0020SCNGk55p0JlU; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:00:18 +0000 Received: from LENOVO5B1FECA2 ([69.248.0.237]) by OMTA09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id yp0J1b00g56odiV3Vp0Jk6; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:00:18 +0000 From: "Charlie Miller" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 thread-index: AcnjF48F8WW8shQZSeuD+azWbkbyRgABNkGw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:01:34 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:00:15 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:01:34 -0000 There are few things that will pry me out of my lurker-dom but Jim's hate filled post is one. Jim is such a good, life loving Christian that he seems to feel that taking the good doctor's life is in keeping with his Christian values. People like Jim reaffirm my atheism. It is my understanding that third trimester abortions are seldom undertaken for other than good medical reason. I wish Jim luck (bad, that is) in finding a woman to fertilize. I don't think he'll find her on this message board. My position is that of Bill Clinton. Abortions should be safe, legal and few. Charlie from Philly From cwlee@post.harvard.edu Mon Jun 1 21:31:54 2009 Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n521VrM6020151 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:31:53 -0400 Received: from [66.81.247.68] (helo=System4) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MBIqz-0003sv-OW for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 21:31:53 -0400 Message-ID: <0D6D4AFA408140F291E448D75FAF77B6@System4> From: "CWLee" To: References: <172417.79638.qm@web50509.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <172417.79638.qm@web50509.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 X-ELNK-Trace: 7141e3bbddc8a6d4f1b7fbad2ae65da374bf435c0eb9d4784edcf1b786a61d054dcfe1bfed63efcbd7b413bf8d83b00e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.81.247.68 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Defending George Tiller X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:31:54 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 18:31:42 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:31:54 -0000 "Desmond Ravenstone" wrote: > Dr. Tiller did not perform late-term abortions lightly. > Time after time, he saw women with crisis pregnancies > involving severe fetal anomalies, including anencephaly > (where the fetus does not develop most of the brain, skull > and scalp). The phrase "Time after time" could be interpreted to mean exclusively; however, there are other news reports that say while he did do abortions on such severe cases, he "also aborted healthy late-term fetuses". Those abortions present me with a more difficult moral problem. Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. ===================================== > > Twelve years ago, he and his staff invited legislators, > clergy and media to attend a "clinic experience" -- > including some who had been arrested in protests > blockading the clinic. Each guest was given a patient > profile, describing the medial realities in painful > detail, then walked through the process that a patient > went through with the staff. > > In George Tiller's own words: “It makes absolutely no > sense to do all the prenatal testing if you get all this > information and can’t do anything about it. My feeling is > that prenatal testing without prenatal choice is medical > fraud.” > > Desmond Ravenstone > > "Do not do unto others as you expect they should do unto > you. Their tastes may not be the same." -- George Bernard > Shaw > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com > http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone > > > --- On Mon, 6/1/09, James F wrote: > >> From: James F >> Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 >> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org >> Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 8:15 PM >> >> I am partially still of older ethics concerning abortion. >> I >> love babies and want to make more of them when I find the >> right fertile woman for myself. >> To me this doctor was a joke of a christian, killing >> babies >> [while being an usher at church on Sundays] in last >> trimester term who should have been put up for adoption. >> They are fully formed, fully human, not a stupid >> valueless >> term called fetus. While babies are being killed every 10 >> seconds >> >> there are tear jerking commericals on TV for mistreated >> pet >> animals: cats and dogs telling pets are mistreated every >> 10 >> seconds, >> >> while at the same time, millions of babies are >> aborted.....duhhhh WTF!!!??? >> >> Roe vrs Wade, three months later, TADAAA: Fish and >> Wildlife >> Preservation ACT {including plants} >> >> Sorry, I think some things have gone off center too much >> numb non-thinking. The guy who shot the doctor had enough >> conviction as well as the doctor who thought he was doing >> a >> great service killing the unborn human. Fetus is a catch >> phrase to lessen the guilt of what is done. The new >> behind >> the skin untra sound/vision equipment says it all, shows >> it >> all. >> >> Then all these cat/dog tear jerking commercials wanting >> people to feel sorry for the animals, true that is a >> cruel >> thing to do to animals, how much more >> >> to tear apart a baby as if it were dung being disected? >> If >> any comments come back blasting me well ya'll know what >> you >> can do. SEX is one thing, multi wives/husbands is another >> thing - IT was not wrong in the Old Testament, was not >> considered wrong until Mr. ST. Paul gave out macho ideas >> against woman and anti sex the convenient bad >> translations >> used in KJV. Yes I am opinionated too, not a follower >> of BS following the crowd group think feeling sorry for >> this >> doctor. If freedom of my speech is not welcom, >> owell... >> >> regards Jim, >> >> >> > From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org >> > Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 >> > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org >> > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:00:11 -0400 >> > >> > Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to >> > uupoly-l@uupa.org >> > >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, >> visit >> > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body >> 'help' to >> > uupoly-l-request@uupa.org >> > >> > You can reach the person managing the list at >> > uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org >> > >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is >> more specific >> > than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." >> > >> > >> > Today's Topics: >> > >> > 1. Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Christine Heinsohn) >> > 2. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (CWLee) >> > 3. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Maria Snyder) >> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > Message: 1 >> > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:51:39 -0500 >> > From: "Christine Heinsohn" >> > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder >> > To: , >> , >> > , >> , >> > , >> >> > Message-ID: >> <003a01c9e263$ef229330$cd67b990$@net> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> > >> > I think it's appropriate for the poly community to >> think about and talk >> > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good physician who >> stood for his >> > principles and would not back down from what he >> thought was right even >> > after being shot in the early 90's and being harassed >> by Kansas's former >> > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as steadfastly on >> my principles. May >> > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the >> transparent tattered veils >> > of religion wherever I find it. >> > >> > >> > >> > Christine Heinsohn >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > Message: 2 >> > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:13:39 -0700 >> > From: "CWLee" >> > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder >> > To: , >> , >> > , >> , >> > , >> >> > Message-ID: >> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; >> charset="iso-8859-1"; >> > reply-type=original >> > >> > >> > OK, here are my comments: >> > >> > 1. Murder is a crime. The suspect(s) deserves a fair >> trial >> > and, if found guilty, punishment. I generally favor >> capital >> > punishment for murder. >> > >> > 2. I know of no connection between this murder and >> poly >> > issues, so I don't understand why the poly community >> has any >> > more concerns or need to speak out about this than any >> other >> > subset of society. >> > >> > 3. The victim is described as someone "who stood for >> his >> > principles and would not back down from what he >> thought was >> > right". Although I know nothing about the suspect(s) >> in >> > this case, the same statement ("he stood for his >> principles >> > and would not back down from what he thought was >> right") can >> > be made about some previous killers/shooters of >> abortion >> > facilitators. >> > >> > 4. Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, to >> know >> > when to accept, for the good of the greater society, >> laws >> > with which we personally disagree - and when to stand >> by our >> > principles and disobey the laws of society. That >> applies to >> > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. >> > >> > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be >> ignored. >> > >> > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. >> > >> > ---------- >> > CWLee >> > Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited to >> sacred >> > cows. Believing we should hire for quality, not >> quotas, and >> > promote for performance, not preferences. >> > >> > ======================== >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Christine Heinsohn" >> > To: ; >> ; >> >> > ; >> ; >> >> > ; >> >> > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM >> > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder >> > >> > >> > >I think it's appropriate for the poly community to >> think >> > >about and talk >> > > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good >> physician who >> > > stood for his >> > > principles and would not back down from what he >> thought >> > > was right even >> > > after being shot in the early 90's and being >> harassed by >> > > Kansas's former >> > > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as >> steadfastly on my >> > > principles. May >> > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the >> >> > > transparent tattered veils >> > > of religion wherever I find it. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Christine Heinsohn >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > Message: 3 >> > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT) >> > From: Maria Snyder >> > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder >> > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org >> > Message-ID: >> > <182880.55970.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> > >> > While I don't know about all the poly groups that were >> copied on this, I do think that this is an issue that is >> near and dear to many UU's, as Dr.Tiller stood up for >> reproductive rights. As a Kansan, a UU, a Dir. of >> Religious >> Ed., and a mom?I am interested in?the topic and?I think >> that >> Christine's thoughts are relevent to?at least the UU >> group. >> >> > ? >> > Maria? >> > >> > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, CWLee >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: CWLee >> > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder >> > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org, >> KanPoly@yahoogroups.com, >> OKPoly@yahoogroups.com, >> mwpoly@yahoogroups.com, >> harp@yahoogroups.com, >> wnypoly@yahoogroups.com >> > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 11:13 PM >> > >> > >> > >> > OK, here are my comments: >> > >> > 1.? Murder is a crime.? The suspect(s) deserves a fair >> trial >> > and, if found guilty, punishment.? I generally favor >> capital >> > punishment for murder. >> > >> > 2.? I know of no connection between this murder and >> poly >> > issues, so I don't understand why the poly community >> has any >> > more concerns or need to speak out about this than any >> other >> > subset of society. >> > >> > 3.? The victim is described as someone "who stood for >> his >> > principles and would not back down from what he >> thought was >> > right".? Although I know nothing about the suspect(s) >> in >> > this case, the same statement ("he stood for his >> principles >> > and would not back down from what he thought was >> right") can >> > be made about some previous killers/shooters of >> abortion >> > facilitators. >> > >> > 4.? Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, to >> know >> > when to accept, for the good of the greater society, >> laws >> > with which we personally disagree - and when to stand >> by our >> > principles and disobey the laws of society.? That >> applies to >> > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. >> > >> > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be >> ignored. >> > >> > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. >> > >> > ---------- >> > CWLee >> > Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited to >> sacred >> > cows.? Believing we should hire for quality, not >> quotas, and >> > promote for performance, not preferences. >> > >> > ======================== >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Christine Heinsohn" >> > To: ; >> ; >> >> > ; >> ; >> >> > ; >> >> > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM >> > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder >> > >> > >> > >I think it's appropriate for the poly community to >> think >> > >about and talk >> > > about this murder.? Dr. Tiller was a good >> physician who >> > > stood for his >> > > principles and would not back down from what? he >> thought >> > > was right even >> > > after being shot in the early 90's and being >> harassed by >> > > Kansas's former >> > > Attorney General.? I hope I can stand as >> steadfastly on my >> > > principles.? May >> > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the >> >> > > transparent tattered veils >> > > of religion wherever I find it. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Christine Heinsohn >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. >> > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to >> reveal about yourself. >> > UUPoly-L mailing list >> > UUPoly-L@uupa.org >> > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. >> > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to >> reveal about yourself. >> > UUPoly-L mailing list >> > UUPoly-L@uupa.org >> > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >> > >> > >> > End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 >> > *************************************** >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. >> http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 >> _______________________________________________ >> The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. >> Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal >> about yourself. >> UUPoly-L mailing list >> UUPoly-L@uupa.org >> http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From desmondravenstone@yahoo.com Mon Jun 1 21:38:33 2009 Received: from web50512.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web50512.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.39.241]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n521bKHM021215 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:38:30 -0400 Received: (qmail 91606 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jun 2009 01:37:20 -0000 Message-ID: <375484.91218.qm@web50512.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: MzVq3vkVM1mQqJLAFu.GAN4EntYrxtz8jcWvYDcKlLjl5yLwjm1ZS6wdTG3Z7TXTm_qzGbKJACH45xDG_ED3UzEjXmYBuVCpnqsP7YbEQHQzgFr5G1jM1q9XXS1BodYkZbOmasoztQaXdabflgA7gu_onHNREOWLq0Ijsoc5ckTgKncD5u6O5n9AE0YIBRSIuU_JJXSn5fxEvs.29nHG.w0pg.kp4IxSVl.NDuWW9._T6vs7ID3CnqzeoV7vYBEUYFTKzvOJqxTGoz76A8aZf4zGjHQLhB9INdRn8a0- Received: from [174.153.128.19] by web50512.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:37:19 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.4.12 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 From: Desmond Ravenstone To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id n521bKHM021215 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Defending George Tiller X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:38:33 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 18:37:19 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:38:33 -0000 Let's say that he did what these press reports say. Do you know the full circumstances behind it? Why the woman was considering it? The process of decision-making? If Dr. Tiller is to be remembered and respected for anything, it is recognizing the power and right of women to make such difficult decisions for themselves. Desmond Ravenstone "Do not do unto others as you expect they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same." -- George Bernard Shaw http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone --- On Mon, 6/1/09, CWLee wrote: > From: CWLee > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Defending George Tiller > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 9:31 PM > > "Desmond Ravenstone" > wrote: > > > Dr. Tiller did not perform late-term abortions > lightly. > > Time after time, he saw women with crisis pregnancies > > > involving severe fetal anomalies, including > anencephaly > > (where the fetus does not develop most of the brain, > skull > > and scalp). > > The phrase "Time after time" could be interpreted to mean > exclusively; however, there are other news reports that say > > while he did do abortions on such severe cases, he "also > aborted healthy late-term fetuses".  Those abortions > present > me with a more difficult moral problem. > > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. > > ===================================== > > > > > Twelve years ago, he and his staff invited > legislators, > > clergy and media to attend a "clinic experience" > --  > > including some who had been arrested in protests > > blockading the clinic.  Each guest was given a > patient > > profile, describing the medial realities in painful > > detail, then walked through the process that a patient > > > went through with the staff. > > > > In George Tiller's own words: “It makes absolutely > no > > sense to do all the prenatal testing if you get all > this > > information and can’t do anything about it. My > feeling is > > that prenatal testing without prenatal choice is > medical > > fraud.” > > > > Desmond Ravenstone > > > > "Do not do unto others as you expect they should do > unto > > you. Their tastes may not be the same." -- George > Bernard > > Shaw > > > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com > > http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/1/09, James F > wrote: > > > >> From: James F > >> Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, > Issue 1 > >> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > >> Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 8:15 PM > >> > >> I am partially still of older ethics concerning > abortion. > >> I > >> love babies and want to make more of them when I > find the > >> right fertile woman for myself. > >> To me this doctor was a joke of a christian, > killing > >> babies > >> [while being an usher at church on Sundays] in > last > >> trimester term who should have been put up for > adoption. > >> They are fully formed, fully human, not a stupid > >> valueless > >> term called fetus. While babies are being killed > every 10 > >> seconds > >> > >> there are tear jerking commericals on TV for > mistreated > >> pet > >> animals: cats and dogs telling pets are mistreated > every > >> 10 > >> seconds, > >> > >> while at the same time, millions of babies are > >> aborted.....duhhhh WTF!!!??? > >> > >> Roe vrs Wade, three months later, TADAAA: Fish and > > >> Wildlife > >> Preservation ACT {including plants} > >> > >> Sorry, I think some things have gone off center > too much > >> numb non-thinking. The guy who shot the doctor had > enough > >> conviction as well as the doctor who thought he > was doing > >> a > >> great service killing the unborn human. Fetus is a > catch > >> phrase to lessen the guilt of what is done. The > new > >> behind > >> the skin untra sound/vision equipment says it all, > shows > >> it > >> all. > >> > >> Then all these cat/dog tear jerking commercials > wanting > >> people to feel sorry for the animals, true that is > a > >> cruel > >> thing to do to animals, how much more > >> > >> to tear apart a baby as if it were dung being > disected? > >> If > >> any comments come back blasting me well ya'll know > what > >> you > >> can do. SEX is one thing, multi wives/husbands is > another > >> thing - IT was not wrong in the Old Testament, was > not > >> considered wrong until Mr. ST. Paul gave out macho > ideas > >> against woman and anti sex the convenient bad > >> translations > >> used in KJV. Yes I am opinionated too, not a > follower > >> of BS following the crowd group think feeling > sorry for > >> this > >> doctor. If freedom of my speech is not welcom, > >> owell... > >> > >> regards Jim, > >> > >> > >> > From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > >> > Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > >> > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > >> > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:00:11 -0400 > >> > > >> > Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to > >> > uupoly-l@uupa.org > >> > > >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World > Wide Web, > >> visit > >> > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > >> > or, via email, send a message with subject or > body > >> 'help' to > >> > uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > >> > > >> > You can reach the person managing the list > at > >> > uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org > >> > > >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line > so it is > >> more specific > >> > than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." > >> > > >> > > >> > Today's Topics: > >> > > >> > 1. Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Christine > Heinsohn) > >> > 2. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (CWLee) > >> > 3. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Maria > Snyder) > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > >> > Message: 1 > >> > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:51:39 -0500 > >> > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > >> > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's > Murder > >> > To: , > >> , > >> > , > >> , > >> > , > >> > >> > Message-ID: > >> <003a01c9e263$ef229330$cd67b990$@net> > >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >> > > >> > I think it's appropriate for the poly > community to > >> think about and talk > >> > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good > physician who > >> stood for his > >> > principles and would not back down from what > he > >> thought was right even > >> > after being shot in the early 90's and being > harassed > >> by Kansas's former > >> > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as > steadfastly on > >> my principles. May > >> > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in > the > >> transparent tattered veils > >> > of religion wherever I find it. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Christine Heinsohn > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------ > >> > > >> > Message: 2 > >> > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:13:39 -0700 > >> > From: "CWLee" > >> > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's > Murder > >> > To: , > >> , > >> > , > >> , > >> > , > >> > >> > Message-ID: > >> > >> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > >> charset="iso-8859-1"; > >> > reply-type=original > >> > > >> > > >> > OK, here are my comments: > >> > > >> > 1. Murder is a crime. The suspect(s) deserves > a fair > >> trial > >> > and, if found guilty, punishment. I generally > favor > >> capital > >> > punishment for murder. > >> > > >> > 2. I know of no connection between this > murder and > >> poly > >> > issues, so I don't understand why the poly > community > >> has any > >> > more concerns or need to speak out about this > than any > >> other > >> > subset of society. > >> > > >> > 3. The victim is described as someone "who > stood for > >> his > >> > principles and would not back down from what > he > >> thought was > >> > right". Although I know nothing about the > suspect(s) > >> in > >> > this case, the same statement ("he stood for > his > >> principles > >> > and would not back down from what he thought > was > >> right") can > >> > be made about some previous killers/shooters > of > >> abortion > >> > facilitators. > >> > > >> > 4. Sometimes it can be very difficult, > morally, to > >> know > >> > when to accept, for the good of the greater > society, > >> laws > >> > with which we personally disagree - and when > to stand > >> by our > >> > principles and disobey the laws of society. > That > >> applies to > >> > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. > >> > > >> > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will > be > >> ignored. > >> > > >> > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. > >> > > >> > ---------- > >> > CWLee > >> > Former slayer of dragons; practice now > limited to > >> sacred > >> > cows. Believing we should hire for quality, > not > >> quotas, and > >> > promote for performance, not preferences. > >> > > >> > ======================== > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > >> > To: ; > >> ; > >> > >> > ; > >> ; > >> > >> > ; > >> > >> > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM > >> > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's > Murder > >> > > >> > > >> > >I think it's appropriate for the poly > community to > >> think > >> > >about and talk > >> > > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a > good > >> physician who > >> > > stood for his > >> > > principles and would not back down from > what he > >> thought > >> > > was right even > >> > > after being shot in the early 90's and > being > >> harassed by > >> > > Kansas's former > >> > > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as > >> steadfastly on my > >> > > principles. May > >> > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred > dressed in the > >> > >> > > transparent tattered veils > >> > > of religion wherever I find it. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Christine Heinsohn > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------ > >> > > >> > Message: 3 > >> > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT) > >> > From: Maria Snyder > >> > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's > Murder > >> > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > >> > Message-ID: > >> > <182880.55970.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >> > > >> > While I don't know about all the poly groups > that were > >> copied on this, I do think that this is an issue > that is > >> near and dear to many UU's, as Dr.Tiller stood up > for > >> reproductive rights. As a Kansan, a UU, a Dir. of > > >> Religious > >> Ed., and a mom?I am interested in?the topic and?I > think > >> that > >> Christine's thoughts are relevent to?at least the > UU > >> group. > >> > >> > ? > >> > Maria? > >> > > >> > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, CWLee > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > From: CWLee > >> > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's > Murder > >> > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org, > >> KanPoly@yahoogroups.com, > >> OKPoly@yahoogroups.com, > >> mwpoly@yahoogroups.com, > >> harp@yahoogroups.com, > >> wnypoly@yahoogroups.com > >> > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 11:13 PM > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > OK, here are my comments: > >> > > >> > 1.? Murder is a crime.? The suspect(s) > deserves a fair > >> trial > >> > and, if found guilty, punishment.? I > generally favor > >> capital > >> > punishment for murder. > >> > > >> > 2.? I know of no connection between this > murder and > >> poly > >> > issues, so I don't understand why the poly > community > >> has any > >> > more concerns or need to speak out about this > than any > >> other > >> > subset of society. > >> > > >> > 3.? The victim is described as someone "who > stood for > >> his > >> > principles and would not back down from what > he > >> thought was > >> > right".? Although I know nothing about the > suspect(s) > >> in > >> > this case, the same statement ("he stood for > his > >> principles > >> > and would not back down from what he thought > was > >> right") can > >> > be made about some previous killers/shooters > of > >> abortion > >> > facilitators. > >> > > >> > 4.? Sometimes it can be very difficult, > morally, to > >> know > >> > when to accept, for the good of the greater > society, > >> laws > >> > with which we personally disagree - and when > to stand > >> by our > >> > principles and disobey the laws of society.? > That > >> applies to > >> > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. > >> > > >> > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will > be > >> ignored. > >> > > >> > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. > >> > > >> > ---------- > >> > CWLee > >> > Former slayer of dragons; practice now > limited to > >> sacred > >> > cows.? Believing we should hire for quality, > not > >> quotas, and > >> > promote for performance, not preferences. > >> > > >> > ======================== > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > >> > To: ; > >> ; > >> > >> > ; > >> ; > >> > >> > ; > >> > >> > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM > >> > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's > Murder > >> > > >> > > >> > >I think it's appropriate for the poly > community to > >> think > >> > >about and talk > >> > > about this murder.? Dr. Tiller was a > good > >> physician who > >> > > stood for his > >> > > principles and would not back down from > what? he > >> thought > >> > > was right even > >> > > after being shot in the early 90's and > being > >> harassed by > >> > > Kansas's former > >> > > Attorney General.? I hope I can stand > as > >> steadfastly on my > >> > > principles.? May > >> > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred > dressed in the > >> > >> > > transparent tattered veils > >> > > of religion wherever I find it. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Christine Heinsohn > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public > archives. > >> > Please keep that in mind when deciding how > much to > >> reveal about yourself. > >> > UUPoly-L mailing list > >> > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > >> > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------ > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public > archives. > >> > Please keep that in mind when deciding how > much to > >> reveal about yourself. > >> > UUPoly-L mailing list > >> > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > >> > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > >> > > >> > > >> > End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > >> > *************************************** > >> > >> > _________________________________________________________________ > >> Insert movie times and more without leaving > Hotmail®. > >> http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > >> Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to > reveal > >> about yourself. > >> UUPoly-L mailing list > >> UUPoly-L@uupa.org > >> http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > >> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to > reveal > > about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From boydw.smith@yahoo.com Mon Jun 1 22:19:24 2009 Received: from web110501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (web110501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [67.195.8.249]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n522IChw026734 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:19:22 -0400 Received: (qmail 57476 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jun 2009 02:18:11 -0000 Message-ID: <494786.56752.qm@web110501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Eu_nRisVM1kWHikDhv5OuruEcmZTp0m82az46OxOwd187WZuyqJXEurUdQiTu1MQu_hpvC5eRWghfQx50OnHo19fzAdhSd_twKIJiPBlOCGhl7Hbba7W3IET8OFT7N_VWqO_zUm84mxx6hEm1M8h3RvdXCJpFcpTda6jU3jFuUo7xizPnh.ihim5xehA2QlatAdv_1jxdhfRFXf9MQRxHnRvJJtg82ekeOTLUhMPBhV355uPEH1OifGRzoI.uUYMoCkVXgkbmoCxXvq3MgnTd8tqz.holWC4mlTnCBVprDMIIQhL Received: from [74.193.193.81] by web110501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:18:11 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.3.9 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 From: Boyd Smith To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id n522IChw026734 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:19:24 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 19:18:11 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:19:24 -0000 The phrase "unborn human" is a contradiction in terms. There is no such thing as an unborn human. No such thing exists. BWS --- On Mon, 6/1/09, James F wrote: > From: James F > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 7:15 PM > > I am partially still of older ethics concerning abortion. I > love babies and want to make more of them when I find the > right fertile woman for myself. > To me this doctor was a joke of a christian, killing babies > [while being an usher at church on Sundays] in last > trimester term who should have been put up for adoption. > They are fully formed, fully human, not a stupid valueless > term called fetus. While babies are being killed every 10 > seconds > > there are tear jerking commericals on TV for mistreated pet > animals: cats and dogs telling pets are mistreated every 10 > seconds, > > while at the same time, millions of babies are > aborted.....duhhhh WTF!!!??? > > Roe vrs Wade, three months later, TADAAA: Fish and Wildlife > Preservation ACT {including plants} > > Sorry, I think some things have gone off center too much > numb non-thinking. The guy who shot the doctor had enough > conviction as well as the doctor who thought he was doing a > great service killing the unborn human. Fetus is a catch > phrase to lessen the guilt of what is done. The new behind > the skin untra sound/vision equipment says it all, shows it > all. > > Then all these cat/dog tear jerking commercials wanting > people to feel sorry for the animals, true that is a cruel > thing to do to animals, how much more > > to tear apart a baby as if it were dung being disected? If > any comments come back blasting me well ya'll know what you > can do. SEX is one thing, multi wives/husbands is another > thing - IT was not wrong in the Old Testament, was not > considered wrong until Mr. ST. Paul gave out macho ideas > against woman and anti sex the convenient bad translations > used in KJV. Yes I am opinionated too, not a follower > of BS following the crowd group think feeling sorry for this > doctor. If freedom of my speech is not welcom, > owell... > > regards Jim, > > > > From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > > Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:00:11 -0400 > > > > Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to > > uupoly-l@uupa.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > > uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is > more specific > > than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Christine Heinsohn) > > 2. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (CWLee) > > 3. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Maria Snyder) > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:51:39 -0500 > > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > To: , > , > > , > , > > , > > > Message-ID: > <003a01c9e263$ef229330$cd67b990$@net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > I think it's appropriate for the poly community to > think about and talk > > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good physician who > stood for his > > principles and would not back down from what he > thought was right even > > after being shot in the early 90's and being harassed > by Kansas's former > > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as steadfastly on > my principles. May > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the > transparent tattered veils > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:13:39 -0700 > > From: "CWLee" > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > To: , > , > > , > , > > , > > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > > reply-type=original > > > > > > OK, here are my comments: > > > > 1. Murder is a crime. The suspect(s) deserves a fair > trial > > and, if found guilty, punishment. I generally favor > capital > > punishment for murder. > > > > 2. I know of no connection between this murder and > poly > > issues, so I don't understand why the poly community > has any > > more concerns or need to speak out about this than any > other > > subset of society. > > > > 3. The victim is described as someone "who stood for > his > > principles and would not back down from what he > thought was > > right". Although I know nothing about the suspect(s) > in > > this case, the same statement ("he stood for his > principles > > and would not back down from what he thought was > right") can > > be made about some previous killers/shooters of > abortion > > facilitators. > > > > 4. Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, to > know > > when to accept, for the good of the greater society, > laws > > with which we personally disagree - and when to stand > by our > > principles and disobey the laws of society. That > applies to > > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. > > > > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be > ignored. > > > > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. > > > > ---------- > > CWLee > > Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited to > sacred > > cows. Believing we should hire for quality, not > quotas, and > > promote for performance, not preferences. > > > > ======================== > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > > To: ; > ; > > > ; > ; > > > ; > > > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > > > > > >I think it's appropriate for the poly community to > think > > >about and talk > > > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good > physician who > > > stood for his > > > principles and would not back down from what he > thought > > > was right even > > > after being shot in the early 90's and being > harassed by > > > Kansas's former > > > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as > steadfastly on my > > > principles. May > > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the > > > > transparent tattered veils > > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Maria Snyder > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > > Message-ID: <182880.55970.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > While I don't know about all the poly groups that were > copied on this, I do think that this is an issue that is > near and dear to many UU's, as Dr.Tiller stood up for > reproductive rights. As a Kansan, a UU, a Dir. of Religious > Ed., and a mom?I am interested in?the topic and?I think that > Christine's thoughts are relevent to?at least the UU group. > > > ? > > Maria? > > > > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, CWLee > wrote: > > > > > > From: CWLee > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org, > KanPoly@yahoogroups.com, > OKPoly@yahoogroups.com, > mwpoly@yahoogroups.com, > harp@yahoogroups.com, > wnypoly@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 11:13 PM > > > > > > > > OK, here are my comments: > > > > 1.? Murder is a crime.? The suspect(s) deserves a fair > trial > > and, if found guilty, punishment.? I generally favor > capital > > punishment for murder. > > > > 2.? I know of no connection between this murder and > poly > > issues, so I don't understand why the poly community > has any > > more concerns or need to speak out about this than any > other > > subset of society. > > > > 3.? The victim is described as someone "who stood for > his > > principles and would not back down from what he > thought was > > right".? Although I know nothing about the suspect(s) > in > > this case, the same statement ("he stood for his > principles > > and would not back down from what he thought was > right") can > > be made about some previous killers/shooters of > abortion > > facilitators. > > > > 4.? Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, to > know > > when to accept, for the good of the greater society, > laws > > with which we personally disagree - and when to stand > by our > > principles and disobey the laws of society.? That > applies to > > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. > > > > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be > ignored. > > > > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. > > > > ---------- > > CWLee > > Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited to > sacred > > cows.? Believing we should hire for quality, not > quotas, and > > promote for performance, not preferences. > > > > ======================== > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > > To: ; > ; > > > ; > ; > > > ; > > > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > > > > > >I think it's appropriate for the poly community to > think > > >about and talk > > > about this murder.? Dr. Tiller was a good > physician who > > > stood for his > > > principles and would not back down from what? he > thought > > > was right even > > > after being shot in the early 90's and being > harassed by > > > Kansas's former > > > Attorney General.? I hope I can stand as > steadfastly on my > > > principles.? May > > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the > > > > transparent tattered veils > > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to > reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to > reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > > End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > > *************************************** > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From licorice.gumdrop@gmail.com Mon Jun 1 23:06:51 2009 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com (qw-out-1920.google.com [74.125.92.146]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5236o0n030581 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 23:06:50 -0400 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 4so4078218qwk.8 for ; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 20:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.2.85 with SMTP id 21mr6329403qai.262.1243911949444; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 20:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?10.74.56.180? ([166.198.135.18]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 7sm469312qwb.6.2009.06.01.20.05.48 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 01 Jun 2009 20:05:48 -0700 (PDT) References: <164965.34434.qm@web51504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-Id: From: licorice gumdrop To: "pbadancer77@yahoo.com" , "uupoly-l@uupa.org" In-Reply-To: <164965.34434.qm@web51504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (5H11) Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 5H11) Cc: "uupoly-l@uupa.org" Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Cheney Speaks X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 03:06:51 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 23:05:36 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 03:06:51 -0000 Goldwater's grandson is gay. - jenny ### sent from a mobile device - please forgive any thumb-related spelling errors. On Jun 1, 2009, at 8:54 PM, Patrice wrote: > > Cheney's Daughter is an activist in the LGBT community. > > I wonder if Goldwater had a queer relative, since he spoke for gay > rights in his older years? > > --Patrice >> >> >> >> >> From cwlee@post.harvard.edu Tue Jun 2 00:03:52 2009 Received: from elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5243m3G002526 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 00:03:48 -0400 Received: from [66.81.247.68] (helo=System4) by elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MBLE1-0001ss-4I for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:03:48 -0400 Message-ID: <8DA368E73CE0402BA6A32B3E9D4D5B76@System4> From: "CWLee" To: References: <494786.56752.qm@web110501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <494786.56752.qm@web110501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 X-ELNK-Trace: 7141e3bbddc8a6d4f1b7fbad2ae65da374bf435c0eb9d4784edcf1b786a61d059a6e930a884f806cb620d8d6b14c2194350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.81.247.68 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 04:03:52 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:03:37 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 04:03:52 -0000 "Boyd Smith" wrote: > The phrase "unborn human" is a contradiction in terms. > There is no such thing as an unborn human. No such thing > exists. Semantics is one of the fields of study I found most enlightening. Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. ============================ BWS --- On Mon, 6/1/09, James F wrote: > From: James F > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 7:15 PM > > I am partially still of older ethics concerning abortion. > I > love babies and want to make more of them when I find the > right fertile woman for myself. > To me this doctor was a joke of a christian, killing > babies > [while being an usher at church on Sundays] in last > trimester term who should have been put up for adoption. > They are fully formed, fully human, not a stupid valueless > term called fetus. While babies are being killed every 10 > seconds > > there are tear jerking commericals on TV for mistreated > pet > animals: cats and dogs telling pets are mistreated every > 10 > seconds, > > while at the same time, millions of babies are > aborted.....duhhhh WTF!!!??? > > Roe vrs Wade, three months later, TADAAA: Fish and > Wildlife > Preservation ACT {including plants} > > Sorry, I think some things have gone off center too much > numb non-thinking. The guy who shot the doctor had enough > conviction as well as the doctor who thought he was doing > a > great service killing the unborn human. Fetus is a catch > phrase to lessen the guilt of what is done. The new behind > the skin untra sound/vision equipment says it all, shows > it > all. > > Then all these cat/dog tear jerking commercials wanting > people to feel sorry for the animals, true that is a cruel > thing to do to animals, how much more > > to tear apart a baby as if it were dung being disected? If > any comments come back blasting me well ya'll know what > you > can do. SEX is one thing, multi wives/husbands is another > thing - IT was not wrong in the Old Testament, was not > considered wrong until Mr. ST. Paul gave out macho ideas > against woman and anti sex the convenient bad translations > used in KJV. Yes I am opinionated too, not a follower > of BS following the crowd group think feeling sorry for > this > doctor. If freedom of my speech is not welcom, > owell... > > regards Jim, > > > > From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > > Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:00:11 -0400 > > > > Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to > > uupoly-l@uupa.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > > uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is > more specific > > than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Christine Heinsohn) > > 2. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (CWLee) > > 3. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Maria Snyder) > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:51:39 -0500 > > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > To: , > , > > , > , > > , > > > Message-ID: > <003a01c9e263$ef229330$cd67b990$@net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > I think it's appropriate for the poly community to > think about and talk > > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good physician who > stood for his > > principles and would not back down from what he > thought was right even > > after being shot in the early 90's and being harassed > by Kansas's former > > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as steadfastly on > my principles. May > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the > transparent tattered veils > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:13:39 -0700 > > From: "CWLee" > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > To: , > , > > , > , > > , > > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > > reply-type=original > > > > > > OK, here are my comments: > > > > 1. Murder is a crime. The suspect(s) deserves a fair > trial > > and, if found guilty, punishment. I generally favor > capital > > punishment for murder. > > > > 2. I know of no connection between this murder and > poly > > issues, so I don't understand why the poly community > has any > > more concerns or need to speak out about this than any > other > > subset of society. > > > > 3. The victim is described as someone "who stood for > his > > principles and would not back down from what he > thought was > > right". Although I know nothing about the suspect(s) > in > > this case, the same statement ("he stood for his > principles > > and would not back down from what he thought was > right") can > > be made about some previous killers/shooters of > abortion > > facilitators. > > > > 4. Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, to > know > > when to accept, for the good of the greater society, > laws > > with which we personally disagree - and when to stand > by our > > principles and disobey the laws of society. That > applies to > > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. > > > > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be > ignored. > > > > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. > > > > ---------- > > CWLee > > Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited to > sacred > > cows. Believing we should hire for quality, not > quotas, and > > promote for performance, not preferences. > > > > ======================== > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > > To: ; > ; > > > ; > ; > > > ; > > > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > > > > > >I think it's appropriate for the poly community to > think > > >about and talk > > > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good > physician who > > > stood for his > > > principles and would not back down from what he > thought > > > was right even > > > after being shot in the early 90's and being > harassed by > > > Kansas's former > > > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as > steadfastly on my > > > principles. May > > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the > > > > transparent tattered veils > > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Maria Snyder > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > > Message-ID: > > <182880.55970.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > While I don't know about all the poly groups that were > copied on this, I do think that this is an issue that is > near and dear to many UU's, as Dr.Tiller stood up for > reproductive rights. As a Kansan, a UU, a Dir. of > Religious > Ed., and a mom?I am interested in?the topic and?I think > that > Christine's thoughts are relevent to?at least the UU > group. > > > ? > > Maria? > > > > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, CWLee > wrote: > > > > > > From: CWLee > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org, > KanPoly@yahoogroups.com, > OKPoly@yahoogroups.com, > mwpoly@yahoogroups.com, > harp@yahoogroups.com, > wnypoly@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 11:13 PM > > > > > > > > OK, here are my comments: > > > > 1.? Murder is a crime.? The suspect(s) deserves a fair > trial > > and, if found guilty, punishment.? I generally favor > capital > > punishment for murder. > > > > 2.? I know of no connection between this murder and > poly > > issues, so I don't understand why the poly community > has any > > more concerns or need to speak out about this than any > other > > subset of society. > > > > 3.? The victim is described as someone "who stood for > his > > principles and would not back down from what he > thought was > > right".? Although I know nothing about the suspect(s) > in > > this case, the same statement ("he stood for his > principles > > and would not back down from what he thought was > right") can > > be made about some previous killers/shooters of > abortion > > facilitators. > > > > 4.? Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, to > know > > when to accept, for the good of the greater society, > laws > > with which we personally disagree - and when to stand > by our > > principles and disobey the laws of society.? That > applies to > > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. > > > > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be > ignored. > > > > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. > > > > ---------- > > CWLee > > Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited to > sacred > > cows.? Believing we should hire for quality, not > quotas, and > > promote for performance, not preferences. > > > > ======================== > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > > To: ; > ; > > > ; > ; > > > ; > > > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > > > > > >I think it's appropriate for the poly community to > think > > >about and talk > > > about this murder.? Dr. Tiller was a good > physician who > > > stood for his > > > principles and would not back down from what? he > thought > > > was right even > > > after being shot in the early 90's and being > harassed by > > > Kansas's former > > > Attorney General.? I hope I can stand as > steadfastly on my > > > principles.? May > > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the > > > > transparent tattered veils > > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to > reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to > reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > > End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > > *************************************** > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From cwlee@post.harvard.edu Tue Jun 2 00:23:44 2009 Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n524Nfhu004655 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 00:23:41 -0400 Received: from [66.81.247.68] (helo=System4) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MBLXE-000319-Of for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:23:41 -0400 Message-ID: <623056710C604A51BF93E908C0744F93@System4> From: "CWLee" To: References: <375484.91218.qm@web50512.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <375484.91218.qm@web50512.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 X-ELNK-Trace: 7141e3bbddc8a6d4f1b7fbad2ae65da374bf435c0eb9d4784edcf1b786a61d05a8ab02ce0b63efdd095efae642c24f9a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.81.247.68 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Defending George Tiller X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 04:23:44 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:23:28 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 04:23:44 -0000 "Desmond Ravenstone" wrote: > Let's say that he did what these press reports say. Do > you know the full circumstances behind it? Why the woman > was considering it? The process of decision-making? Certainly not. I doubt if anyone, even the women seeking the abortions and certainly not the physician, knew "the full circumstances ... why ... (and the) process" involved in the decision making that lead to those events. I believe the same can be said about the various individuals who have killed, or tried to kill, abortion facilitators over the years. For clarity of understanding, I find it useful, often, to separate an action and its consequences from the motives and intentions that appear to have brought about the action. In our legal system one of the roles of the police, district attorneys, and the judicial branch is to consider those independently, as part of the process of separating accidents from crimes, and in determining appropriate punishment for those found guilty of crimes. Even in the arena of moral conflict, I find "good intentions" as a less than satisfactory excuse for bad outcomes. Reasonable people will differ, of course, but I hope the same calculus is used to judge those who break the laws you agree with and those who break the laws you believe are unjust - when the tresspassers in each case are doing it out of a belief of moral correctness. Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. ======================================= If Dr. Tiller is to be remembered and respected for anything, it is recognizing the power and right of women to make such difficult decisions for themselves. > > Desmond Ravenstone > > "Do not do unto others as you expect they should do unto > you. Their tastes may not be the same." -- George Bernard > Shaw > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com > http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone > > > --- On Mon, 6/1/09, CWLee wrote: > >> From: CWLee >> Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Defending George Tiller >> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org >> Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 9:31 PM >> >> "Desmond Ravenstone" >> wrote: >> >> > Dr. Tiller did not perform late-term abortions >> lightly. >> > Time after time, he saw women with crisis pregnancies >> >> > involving severe fetal anomalies, including >> anencephaly >> > (where the fetus does not develop most of the brain, >> skull >> > and scalp). >> >> The phrase "Time after time" could be interpreted to mean >> exclusively; however, there are other news reports that >> say >> >> while he did do abortions on such severe cases, he "also >> aborted healthy late-term fetuses". Those abortions >> present >> me with a more difficult moral problem. >> >> Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. >> >> ===================================== >> >> > >> > Twelve years ago, he and his staff invited >> legislators, >> > clergy and media to attend a "clinic experience" >> -- >> > including some who had been arrested in protests >> > blockading the clinic. Each guest was given a >> patient >> > profile, describing the medial realities in painful >> > detail, then walked through the process that a patient >> >> > went through with the staff. >> > >> > In George Tiller's own words: “It makes absolutely >> no >> > sense to do all the prenatal testing if you get all >> this >> > information and can’t do anything about it. My >> feeling is >> > that prenatal testing without prenatal choice is >> medical >> > fraud.” >> > >> > Desmond Ravenstone >> > >> > "Do not do unto others as you expect they should do >> unto >> > you. Their tastes may not be the same." -- George >> Bernard >> > Shaw >> > >> > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com >> > http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone >> > >> > >> > --- On Mon, 6/1/09, James F >> wrote: >> > >> >> From: James F >> >> Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, >> Issue 1 >> >> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org >> >> Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 8:15 PM >> >> >> >> I am partially still of older ethics concerning >> abortion. >> >> I >> >> love babies and want to make more of them when I >> find the >> >> right fertile woman for myself. >> >> To me this doctor was a joke of a christian, >> killing >> >> babies >> >> [while being an usher at church on Sundays] in >> last >> >> trimester term who should have been put up for >> adoption. >> >> They are fully formed, fully human, not a stupid >> >> valueless >> >> term called fetus. While babies are being killed >> every 10 >> >> seconds >> >> >> >> there are tear jerking commericals on TV for >> mistreated >> >> pet >> >> animals: cats and dogs telling pets are mistreated >> every >> >> 10 >> >> seconds, >> >> >> >> while at the same time, millions of babies are >> >> aborted.....duhhhh WTF!!!??? >> >> >> >> Roe vrs Wade, three months later, TADAAA: Fish and >> >> >> Wildlife >> >> Preservation ACT {including plants} >> >> >> >> Sorry, I think some things have gone off center >> too much >> >> numb non-thinking. The guy who shot the doctor had >> enough >> >> conviction as well as the doctor who thought he >> was doing >> >> a >> >> great service killing the unborn human. Fetus is a >> catch >> >> phrase to lessen the guilt of what is done. The >> new >> >> behind >> >> the skin untra sound/vision equipment says it all, >> shows >> >> it >> >> all. >> >> >> >> Then all these cat/dog tear jerking commercials >> wanting >> >> people to feel sorry for the animals, true that is >> a >> >> cruel >> >> thing to do to animals, how much more >> >> >> >> to tear apart a baby as if it were dung being >> disected? >> >> If >> >> any comments come back blasting me well ya'll know >> what >> >> you >> >> can do. SEX is one thing, multi wives/husbands is >> another >> >> thing - IT was not wrong in the Old Testament, was >> not >> >> considered wrong until Mr. ST. Paul gave out macho >> ideas >> >> against woman and anti sex the convenient bad >> >> translations >> >> used in KJV. Yes I am opinionated too, not a >> follower >> >> of BS following the crowd group think feeling >> sorry for >> >> this >> >> doctor. If freedom of my speech is not welcom, >> >> owell... >> >> >> >> regards Jim, >> >> >> >> >> >> > From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org >> >> > Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 >> >> > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org >> >> > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:00:11 -0400 >> >> > >> >> > Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to >> >> > uupoly-l@uupa.org >> >> > >> >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World >> Wide Web, >> >> visit >> >> > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >> >> > or, via email, send a message with subject or >> body >> >> 'help' to >> >> > uupoly-l-request@uupa.org >> >> > >> >> > You can reach the person managing the list >> at >> >> > uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org >> >> > >> >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line >> so it is >> >> more specific >> >> > than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Today's Topics: >> >> > >> >> > 1. Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Christine >> Heinsohn) >> >> > 2. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (CWLee) >> >> > 3. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Maria >> Snyder) >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > >> >> > Message: 1 >> >> > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:51:39 -0500 >> >> > From: "Christine Heinsohn" >> >> > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's >> Murder >> >> > To: , >> >> , >> >> > , >> >> , >> >> > , >> >> >> >> > Message-ID: >> >> <003a01c9e263$ef229330$cd67b990$@net> >> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> > >> >> > I think it's appropriate for the poly >> community to >> >> think about and talk >> >> > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good >> physician who >> >> stood for his >> >> > principles and would not back down from what >> he >> >> thought was right even >> >> > after being shot in the early 90's and being >> harassed >> >> by Kansas's former >> >> > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as >> steadfastly on >> >> my principles. May >> >> > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in >> the >> >> transparent tattered veils >> >> > of religion wherever I find it. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Christine Heinsohn >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ------------------------------ >> >> > >> >> > Message: 2 >> >> > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:13:39 -0700 >> >> > From: "CWLee" >> >> > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's >> Murder >> >> > To: , >> >> , >> >> > , >> >> , >> >> > , >> >> >> >> > Message-ID: >> >> >> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; >> >> charset="iso-8859-1"; >> >> > reply-type=original >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > OK, here are my comments: >> >> > >> >> > 1. Murder is a crime. The suspect(s) deserves >> a fair >> >> trial >> >> > and, if found guilty, punishment. I generally >> favor >> >> capital >> >> > punishment for murder. >> >> > >> >> > 2. I know of no connection between this >> murder and >> >> poly >> >> > issues, so I don't understand why the poly >> community >> >> has any >> >> > more concerns or need to speak out about this >> than any >> >> other >> >> > subset of society. >> >> > >> >> > 3. The victim is described as someone "who >> stood for >> >> his >> >> > principles and would not back down from what >> he >> >> thought was >> >> > right". Although I know nothing about the >> suspect(s) >> >> in >> >> > this case, the same statement ("he stood for >> his >> >> principles >> >> > and would not back down from what he thought >> was >> >> right") can >> >> > be made about some previous killers/shooters >> of >> >> abortion >> >> > facilitators. >> >> > >> >> > 4. Sometimes it can be very difficult, >> morally, to >> >> know >> >> > when to accept, for the good of the greater >> society, >> >> laws >> >> > with which we personally disagree - and when >> to stand >> >> by our >> >> > principles and disobey the laws of society. >> That >> >> applies to >> >> > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. >> >> > >> >> > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will >> be >> >> ignored. >> >> > >> >> > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. >> >> > >> >> > ---------- >> >> > CWLee >> >> > Former slayer of dragons; practice now >> limited to >> >> sacred >> >> > cows. Believing we should hire for quality, >> not >> >> quotas, and >> >> > promote for performance, not preferences. >> >> > >> >> > ======================== >> >> > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Christine Heinsohn" >> >> > To: ; >> >> ; >> >> >> >> > ; >> >> ; >> >> >> >> > ; >> >> >> >> > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM >> >> > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's >> Murder >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >I think it's appropriate for the poly >> community to >> >> think >> >> > >about and talk >> >> > > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a >> good >> >> physician who >> >> > > stood for his >> >> > > principles and would not back down from >> what he >> >> thought >> >> > > was right even >> >> > > after being shot in the early 90's and >> being >> >> harassed by >> >> > > Kansas's former >> >> > > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as >> >> steadfastly on my >> >> > > principles. May >> >> > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred >> dressed in the >> >> >> >> > > transparent tattered veils >> >> > > of religion wherever I find it. >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Christine Heinsohn >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ------------------------------ >> >> > >> >> > Message: 3 >> >> > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT) >> >> > From: Maria Snyder >> >> > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's >> Murder >> >> > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org >> >> > Message-ID: >> >> > <182880.55970.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> > >> >> > While I don't know about all the poly groups >> that were >> >> copied on this, I do think that this is an issue >> that is >> >> near and dear to many UU's, as Dr.Tiller stood up >> for >> >> reproductive rights. As a Kansan, a UU, a Dir. of >> >> >> Religious >> >> Ed., and a mom?I am interested in?the topic and?I >> think >> >> that >> >> Christine's thoughts are relevent to?at least the >> UU >> >> group. >> >> >> >> > ? >> >> > Maria? >> >> > >> >> > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, CWLee >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > From: CWLee >> >> > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's >> Murder >> >> > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org, >> >> KanPoly@yahoogroups.com, >> >> OKPoly@yahoogroups.com, >> >> mwpoly@yahoogroups.com, >> >> harp@yahoogroups.com, >> >> wnypoly@yahoogroups.com >> >> > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 11:13 PM >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > OK, here are my comments: >> >> > >> >> > 1.? Murder is a crime.? The suspect(s) >> deserves a fair >> >> trial >> >> > and, if found guilty, punishment.? I >> generally favor >> >> capital >> >> > punishment for murder. >> >> > >> >> > 2.? I know of no connection between this >> murder and >> >> poly >> >> > issues, so I don't understand why the poly >> community >> >> has any >> >> > more concerns or need to speak out about this >> than any >> >> other >> >> > subset of society. >> >> > >> >> > 3.? The victim is described as someone "who >> stood for >> >> his >> >> > principles and would not back down from what >> he >> >> thought was >> >> > right".? Although I know nothing about the >> suspect(s) >> >> in >> >> > this case, the same statement ("he stood for >> his >> >> principles >> >> > and would not back down from what he thought >> was >> >> right") can >> >> > be made about some previous killers/shooters >> of >> >> abortion >> >> > facilitators. >> >> > >> >> > 4.? Sometimes it can be very difficult, >> morally, to >> >> know >> >> > when to accept, for the good of the greater >> society, >> >> laws >> >> > with which we personally disagree - and when >> to stand >> >> by our >> >> > principles and disobey the laws of society.? >> That >> >> applies to >> >> > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. >> >> > >> >> > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will >> be >> >> ignored. >> >> > >> >> > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. >> >> > >> >> > ---------- >> >> > CWLee >> >> > Former slayer of dragons; practice now >> limited to >> >> sacred >> >> > cows.? Believing we should hire for quality, >> not >> >> quotas, and >> >> > promote for performance, not preferences. >> >> > >> >> > ======================== >> >> > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Christine Heinsohn" >> >> > To: ; >> >> ; >> >> >> >> > ; >> >> ; >> >> >> >> > ; >> >> >> >> > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM >> >> > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's >> Murder >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >I think it's appropriate for the poly >> community to >> >> think >> >> > >about and talk >> >> > > about this murder.? Dr. Tiller was a >> good >> >> physician who >> >> > > stood for his >> >> > > principles and would not back down from >> what? he >> >> thought >> >> > > was right even >> >> > > after being shot in the early 90's and >> being >> >> harassed by >> >> > > Kansas's former >> >> > > Attorney General.? I hope I can stand >> as >> >> steadfastly on my >> >> > > principles.? May >> >> > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred >> dressed in the >> >> >> >> > > transparent tattered veils >> >> > > of religion wherever I find it. >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Christine Heinsohn >> >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public >> archives. >> >> > Please keep that in mind when deciding how >> much to >> >> reveal about yourself. >> >> > UUPoly-L mailing list >> >> > UUPoly-L@uupa.org >> >> > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ------------------------------ >> >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public >> archives. >> >> > Please keep that in mind when deciding how >> much to >> >> reveal about yourself. >> >> > UUPoly-L mailing list >> >> > UUPoly-L@uupa.org >> >> > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 >> >> > *************************************** >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> >> Insert movie times and more without leaving >> Hotmail®. >> >> http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. >> >> Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to >> reveal >> >> about yourself. >> >> UUPoly-L mailing list >> >> UUPoly-L@uupa.org >> >> http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. >> > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to >> reveal >> > about yourself. >> > UUPoly-L mailing list >> > UUPoly-L@uupa.org >> > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. >> Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal >> about yourself. >> UUPoly-L mailing list >> UUPoly-L@uupa.org >> http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From boydw.smith@yahoo.com Tue Jun 2 21:00:42 2009 Received: from web110516.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (web110516.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [67.195.8.121]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n530xQ5o006748 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 21:00:39 -0400 Received: (qmail 60507 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jun 2009 00:59:26 -0000 Message-ID: <82474.60153.qm@web110516.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: uKQURHcVM1m6F10ULCu5mm7eZG5ojIromI.fQhk8Z.b_tXgz.5ql3w2Lax1uyNkhqm_tW_VEsb1j6fvrs7tfaF55B0iXVWzUK_h_c9pthiZDnkG2Vw_Heco_4C2NG8_A3XYGPEN0EnVNHOJ0puw_6pdwr8F2G4w9zY7bK1X.8b4HYlJihQnLT7h_8nvnIK036BG7hmw063snsrfTvGVuCy_0pL6W_hFUHOySiAte6Vf_Cf6gD73PeAY1e6nIevf57jYNC9EZLoV7USr0k8Y1Xo4WpYswN34Niia8RnlrD._tVIqCzLNJA.4eyHUZxU0zYWFCHHZbCdMNaZ.CRmRK Received: from [74.193.193.81] by web110516.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:59:25 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.3.9 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 From: Boyd Smith To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id n530xQ5o006748 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 01:00:43 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 17:59:25 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 01:00:43 -0000 Meaning you have studied it? oooooh! That is interesting. I wish I knew more about it. I know for a fact that I screw up things by not saying what I mean better and more clearly or precisely. BWS --- On Mon, 6/1/09, CWLee wrote: > From: CWLee > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 11:03 PM > > "Boyd Smith" > wrote: > > > The phrase "unborn human" is a contradiction in terms. > > > There is no such thing as an unborn human. No > such thing > > exists. > > Semantics is one of the fields of study I found most > enlightening. > > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. > > ============================ > > BWS > > --- On Mon, 6/1/09, James F > wrote: > > > From: James F > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue > 1 > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 7:15 PM > > > > I am partially still of older ethics concerning > abortion. > > I > > love babies and want to make more of them when I find > the > > right fertile woman for myself. > > To me this doctor was a joke of a christian, killing > > babies > > [while being an usher at church on Sundays] in last > > trimester term who should have been put up for > adoption. > > They are fully formed, fully human, not a stupid > valueless > > term called fetus. While babies are being killed every > 10 > > seconds > > > > there are tear jerking commericals on TV for > mistreated > > pet > > animals: cats and dogs telling pets are mistreated > every > > 10 > > seconds, > > > > while at the same time, millions of babies are > > aborted.....duhhhh WTF!!!??? > > > > Roe vrs Wade, three months later, TADAAA: Fish and > > Wildlife > > Preservation ACT {including plants} > > > > Sorry, I think some things have gone off center too > much > > numb non-thinking. The guy who shot the doctor had > enough > > conviction as well as the doctor who thought he was > doing > > a > > great service killing the unborn human. Fetus is a > catch > > phrase to lessen the guilt of what is done. The new > behind > > the skin untra sound/vision equipment says it all, > shows > > it > > all. > > > > Then all these cat/dog tear jerking commercials > wanting > > people to feel sorry for the animals, true that is a > cruel > > thing to do to animals, how much more > > > > to tear apart a baby as if it were dung being > disected? If > > any comments come back blasting me well ya'll know > what > > you > > can do. SEX is one thing, multi wives/husbands is > another > > thing - IT was not wrong in the Old Testament, was > not > > considered wrong until Mr. ST. Paul gave out macho > ideas > > against woman and anti sex the convenient bad > translations > > used in KJV. Yes I am opinionated too, not a follower > > of BS following the crowd group think feeling sorry > for > > this > > doctor. If freedom of my speech is not welcom, > > owell... > > > > regards Jim, > > > > > > > From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > > > Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > > > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:00:11 -0400 > > > > > > Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to > > > uupoly-l@uupa.org > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide > Web, > > visit > > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or > body > > 'help' to > > > uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so > it is > > more specific > > > than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > > 1. Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Christine > Heinsohn) > > > 2. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (CWLee) > > > 3. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Maria Snyder) > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:51:39 -0500 > > > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > > To: , > > , > > > , > > , > > > , > > > > > Message-ID: > > <003a01c9e263$ef229330$cd67b990$@net> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > > > I think it's appropriate for the poly community > to > > think about and talk > > > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good > physician who > > stood for his > > > principles and would not back down from what he > > thought was right even > > > after being shot in the early 90's and being > harassed > > by Kansas's former > > > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as > steadfastly on > > my principles. May > > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in > the > > transparent tattered veils > > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:13:39 -0700 > > > From: "CWLee" > > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's > Murder > > > To: , > > , > > > , > > , > > > , > > > > > Message-ID: > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > > charset="iso-8859-1"; > > > reply-type=original > > > > > > > > > OK, here are my comments: > > > > > > 1. Murder is a crime. The suspect(s) deserves a > fair > > trial > > > and, if found guilty, punishment. I generally > favor > > capital > > > punishment for murder. > > > > > > 2. I know of no connection between this murder > and > > poly > > > issues, so I don't understand why the poly > community > > has any > > > more concerns or need to speak out about this > than any > > other > > > subset of society. > > > > > > 3. The victim is described as someone "who stood > for > > his > > > principles and would not back down from what he > > thought was > > > right". Although I know nothing about the > suspect(s) > > in > > > this case, the same statement ("he stood for his > > principles > > > and would not back down from what he thought was > > right") can > > > be made about some previous killers/shooters of > > abortion > > > facilitators. > > > > > > 4. Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, > to > > know > > > when to accept, for the good of the greater > society, > > laws > > > with which we personally disagree - and when to > stand > > by our > > > principles and disobey the laws of society. That > > applies to > > > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. > > > > > > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be > > ignored. > > > > > > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. > > > > > > ---------- > > > CWLee > > > Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited > to > > sacred > > > cows. Believing we should hire for quality, not > > quotas, and > > > promote for performance, not preferences. > > > > > > ======================== > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > > > To: ; > > ; > > > > > ; > > ; > > > > > ; > > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM > > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > > > > > > > > >I think it's appropriate for the poly > community to > > think > > > >about and talk > > > > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good > > physician who > > > > stood for his > > > > principles and would not back down from what > he > > thought > > > > was right even > > > > after being shot in the early 90's and > being > > harassed by > > > > Kansas's former > > > > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as > > steadfastly on my > > > > principles. May > > > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed > in the > > > > > > transparent tattered veils > > > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Message: 3 > > > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT) > > > From: Maria Snyder > > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's > Murder > > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > > > Message-ID: > > > <182880.55970.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > > > While I don't know about all the poly groups that > were > > copied on this, I do think that this is an issue that > is > > near and dear to many UU's, as Dr.Tiller stood up for > > reproductive rights. As a Kansan, a UU, a Dir. of > > Religious > > Ed., and a mom?I am interested in?the topic and?I > think > > that > > Christine's thoughts are relevent to?at least the UU > > group. > > > > > ? > > > Maria? > > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, CWLee > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: CWLee > > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's > Murder > > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org, > > KanPoly@yahoogroups.com, > > OKPoly@yahoogroups.com, > > mwpoly@yahoogroups.com, > > harp@yahoogroups.com, > > wnypoly@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 11:13 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, here are my comments: > > > > > > 1.? Murder is a crime.? The suspect(s) deserves a > fair > > trial > > > and, if found guilty, punishment.? I generally > favor > > capital > > > punishment for murder. > > > > > > 2.? I know of no connection between this murder > and > > poly > > > issues, so I don't understand why the poly > community > > has any > > > more concerns or need to speak out about this > than any > > other > > > subset of society. > > > > > > 3.? The victim is described as someone "who stood > for > > his > > > principles and would not back down from what he > > thought was > > > right".? Although I know nothing about the > suspect(s) > > in > > > this case, the same statement ("he stood for his > > principles > > > and would not back down from what he thought was > > right") can > > > be made about some previous killers/shooters of > > abortion > > > facilitators. > > > > > > 4.? Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, > to > > know > > > when to accept, for the good of the greater > society, > > laws > > > with which we personally disagree - and when to > stand > > by our > > > principles and disobey the laws of society.? > That > > applies to > > > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. > > > > > > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be > > ignored. > > > > > > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. > > > > > > ---------- > > > CWLee > > > Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited > to > > sacred > > > cows.? Believing we should hire for quality, not > > quotas, and > > > promote for performance, not preferences. > > > > > > ======================== > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > > > To: ; > > ; > > > > > ; > > ; > > > > > ; > > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM > > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > > > > > > > > >I think it's appropriate for the poly > community to > > think > > > >about and talk > > > > about this murder.? Dr. Tiller was a good > > physician who > > > > stood for his > > > > principles and would not back down from > what? he > > thought > > > > was right even > > > > after being shot in the early 90's and > being > > harassed by > > > > Kansas's former > > > > Attorney General.? I hope I can stand as > > steadfastly on my > > > > principles.? May > > > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed > in the > > > > > > transparent tattered veils > > > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much > to > > reveal about yourself. > > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much > to > > reveal about yourself. > > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > > > > > End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > > > *************************************** > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Insert movie times and more without leaving > Hotmail. > > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to > reveal > > about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From cwlee@post.harvard.edu Tue Jun 2 21:24:15 2009 Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n531OBdB009060 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 21:24:11 -0400 Received: from [66.81.253.16] (helo=System4) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MBfD5-0004tS-FZ for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:24:11 -0400 Message-ID: From: "CWLee" To: References: <82474.60153.qm@web110516.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <82474.60153.qm@web110516.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 X-ELNK-Trace: 7141e3bbddc8a6d4f1b7fbad2ae65da374bf435c0eb9d4784edcf1b786a61d05d66555a771cbf64b8f4059936abbfe82350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.81.253.16 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 01:24:15 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:23:54 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 01:24:15 -0000 Yes, I have studied it. The most basic message one gets from any serious study of semantics is that "there is no inherent meaning in words". Words have meaning only to the extent that we assign meaning to them. We can assign any meaning we want to them, but unless there is more or less general agreement on that mapping system we cannot communicate meaningfully. Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. ======================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyd Smith" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 Meaning you have studied it? oooooh! That is interesting. I wish I knew more about it. I know for a fact that I screw up things by not saying what I mean better and more clearly or precisely. BWS --- On Mon, 6/1/09, CWLee wrote: > From: CWLee > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 11:03 PM > > "Boyd Smith" > wrote: > > > The phrase "unborn human" is a contradiction in terms. > > > There is no such thing as an unborn human. No > such thing > > exists. > > Semantics is one of the fields of study I found most > enlightening. > > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. > > ============================ > > BWS > > --- On Mon, 6/1/09, James F > wrote: > > > From: James F > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue > 1 > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 7:15 PM > > > > I am partially still of older ethics concerning > abortion. > > I > > love babies and want to make more of them when I find > the > > right fertile woman for myself. > > To me this doctor was a joke of a christian, killing > > babies > > [while being an usher at church on Sundays] in last > > trimester term who should have been put up for > adoption. > > They are fully formed, fully human, not a stupid > valueless > > term called fetus. While babies are being killed every > 10 > > seconds > > > > there are tear jerking commericals on TV for > mistreated > > pet > > animals: cats and dogs telling pets are mistreated > every > > 10 > > seconds, > > > > while at the same time, millions of babies are > > aborted.....duhhhh WTF!!!??? > > > > Roe vrs Wade, three months later, TADAAA: Fish and > > Wildlife > > Preservation ACT {including plants} > > > > Sorry, I think some things have gone off center too > much > > numb non-thinking. The guy who shot the doctor had > enough > > conviction as well as the doctor who thought he was > doing > > a > > great service killing the unborn human. Fetus is a > catch > > phrase to lessen the guilt of what is done. The new > behind > > the skin untra sound/vision equipment says it all, > shows > > it > > all. > > > > Then all these cat/dog tear jerking commercials > wanting > > people to feel sorry for the animals, true that is a > cruel > > thing to do to animals, how much more > > > > to tear apart a baby as if it were dung being > disected? If > > any comments come back blasting me well ya'll know > what > > you > > can do. SEX is one thing, multi wives/husbands is > another > > thing - IT was not wrong in the Old Testament, was > not > > considered wrong until Mr. ST. Paul gave out macho > ideas > > against woman and anti sex the convenient bad > translations > > used in KJV. Yes I am opinionated too, not a follower > > of BS following the crowd group think feeling sorry > for > > this > > doctor. If freedom of my speech is not welcom, > > owell... > > > > regards Jim, > > > > > > > From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > > > Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > > > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:00:11 -0400 > > > > > > Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to > > > uupoly-l@uupa.org > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide > Web, > > visit > > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or > body > > 'help' to > > > uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so > it is > > more specific > > > than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > > 1. Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Christine > Heinsohn) > > > 2. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (CWLee) > > > 3. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Maria Snyder) > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:51:39 -0500 > > > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > > To: , > > , > > > , > > , > > > , > > > > > Message-ID: > > <003a01c9e263$ef229330$cd67b990$@net> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > > > I think it's appropriate for the poly community > to > > think about and talk > > > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good > physician who > > stood for his > > > principles and would not back down from what he > > thought was right even > > > after being shot in the early 90's and being > harassed > > by Kansas's former > > > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as > steadfastly on > > my principles. May > > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in > the > > transparent tattered veils > > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:13:39 -0700 > > > From: "CWLee" > > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's > Murder > > > To: , > > , > > > , > > , > > > , > > > > > Message-ID: > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > > charset="iso-8859-1"; > > > reply-type=original > > > > > > > > > OK, here are my comments: > > > > > > 1. Murder is a crime. The suspect(s) deserves a > fair > > trial > > > and, if found guilty, punishment. I generally > favor > > capital > > > punishment for murder. > > > > > > 2. I know of no connection between this murder > and > > poly > > > issues, so I don't understand why the poly > community > > has any > > > more concerns or need to speak out about this > than any > > other > > > subset of society. > > > > > > 3. The victim is described as someone "who stood > for > > his > > > principles and would not back down from what he > > thought was > > > right". Although I know nothing about the > suspect(s) > > in > > > this case, the same statement ("he stood for his > > principles > > > and would not back down from what he thought was > > right") can > > > be made about some previous killers/shooters of > > abortion > > > facilitators. > > > > > > 4. Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, > to > > know > > > when to accept, for the good of the greater > society, > > laws > > > with which we personally disagree - and when to > stand > > by our > > > principles and disobey the laws of society. That > > applies to > > > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. > > > > > > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be > > ignored. > > > > > > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. > > > > > > ---------- > > > CWLee > > > Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited > to > > sacred > > > cows. Believing we should hire for quality, not > > quotas, and > > > promote for performance, not preferences. > > > > > > ======================== > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > > > To: ; > > ; > > > > > ; > > ; > > > > > ; > > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM > > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > > > > > > > > >I think it's appropriate for the poly > community to > > think > > > >about and talk > > > > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good > > physician who > > > > stood for his > > > > principles and would not back down from what > he > > thought > > > > was right even > > > > after being shot in the early 90's and > being > > harassed by > > > > Kansas's former > > > > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as > > steadfastly on my > > > > principles. May > > > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed > in the > > > > > > transparent tattered veils > > > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Message: 3 > > > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT) > > > From: Maria Snyder > > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's > Murder > > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > > > Message-ID: > > > <182880.55970.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > > > While I don't know about all the poly groups that > were > > copied on this, I do think that this is an issue that > is > > near and dear to many UU's, as Dr.Tiller stood up for > > reproductive rights. As a Kansan, a UU, a Dir. of > > Religious > > Ed., and a mom?I am interested in?the topic and?I > think > > that > > Christine's thoughts are relevent to?at least the UU > > group. > > > > > ? > > > Maria? > > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, CWLee > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: CWLee > > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's > Murder > > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org, > > KanPoly@yahoogroups.com, > > OKPoly@yahoogroups.com, > > mwpoly@yahoogroups.com, > > harp@yahoogroups.com, > > wnypoly@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 11:13 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, here are my comments: > > > > > > 1.? Murder is a crime.? The suspect(s) deserves a > fair > > trial > > > and, if found guilty, punishment.? I generally > favor > > capital > > > punishment for murder. > > > > > > 2.? I know of no connection between this murder > and > > poly > > > issues, so I don't understand why the poly > community > > has any > > > more concerns or need to speak out about this > than any > > other > > > subset of society. > > > > > > 3.? The victim is described as someone "who stood > for > > his > > > principles and would not back down from what he > > thought was > > > right".? Although I know nothing about the > suspect(s) > > in > > > this case, the same statement ("he stood for his > > principles > > > and would not back down from what he thought was > > right") can > > > be made about some previous killers/shooters of > > abortion > > > facilitators. > > > > > > 4.? Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, > to > > know > > > when to accept, for the good of the greater > society, > > laws > > > with which we personally disagree - and when to > stand > > by our > > > principles and disobey the laws of society.? > That > > applies to > > > both sides of many recent issues in the USA. > > > > > > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be > > ignored. > > > > > > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. > > > > > > ---------- > > > CWLee > > > Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited > to > > sacred > > > cows.? Believing we should hire for quality, not > > quotas, and > > > promote for performance, not preferences. > > > > > > ======================== > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Christine Heinsohn" > > > To: ; > > ; > > > > > ; > > ; > > > > > ; > > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM > > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder > > > > > > > > > >I think it's appropriate for the poly > community to > > think > > > >about and talk > > > > about this murder.? Dr. Tiller was a good > > physician who > > > > stood for his > > > > principles and would not back down from > what? he > > thought > > > > was right even > > > > after being shot in the early 90's and > being > > harassed by > > > > Kansas's former > > > > Attorney General.? I hope I can stand as > > steadfastly on my > > > > principles.? May > > > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed > in the > > > > > > transparent tattered veils > > > > of religion wherever I find it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much > to > > reveal about yourself. > > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much > to > > reveal about yourself. > > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > > > > > End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 > > > *************************************** > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Insert movie times and more without leaving > Hotmail. > > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to > reveal > > about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From JasmineGld@aol.com Wed Jun 3 10:21:08 2009 Received: from imr-d03.mx.aol.com (imr-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n53EL64t010100 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 10:21:06 -0400 Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imr-d03.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-44a268669106; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 10:19:21 -0400 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id g.ce9.56a84819 (32915) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 10:19:18 -0400 (EDT) From: JasmineGld@aol.com Message-ID: To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5379 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.137 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Cheney Speaks X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:21:08 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 10:19:17 EDT X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:21:08 -0000 In a message dated 6/1/2009 7:13:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wabaldwin@aol.com writes: > Golly -- Could he also be supporting poly-marriage?!?!?! This twist is already on the Internet: "Cheney's judgment 'clouded' on same-gender unions" "If freedom to marry means, as he said, that people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish, well then, he's virtually endorsing polyamory and polygamy, and incestuous marriage, and bestiality," Barber claims. "[There are] no holds barred here." " http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=551926 Jasmine **************Shop Inspiron, Studio and XPS Laptops at Dell.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222616459x1201464730/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.d oubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215218145%3B37264238%3Bd) From WABaldwin@aol.com Wed Jun 3 10:35:31 2009 Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n53EZUES012522 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 10:35:30 -0400 Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imo-m22.mail.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN2-34a2689e726a; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 10:34:15 -0400 Received: from WABaldwin@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id g.c14.628a2e59 (39329) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 10:34:13 -0400 (EDT) From: WABaldwin@aol.com Message-ID: To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5378 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.137 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Cheney Speaks X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:35:31 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 10:34:39 EDT X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:35:31 -0000 In a message dated 6/3/2009 7:22:03 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, JasmineGld@aol.com writes: "If freedom to marry means, as he said, that people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish, well then, he's virtually endorsing polyamory and polygamy, and incestuous marriage, and bestiality," Barber claims. "[There are] no holds barred here." So I'm curious -- since someone always brings this up.... I know that some people have sex with animals, but...reallly.....how many people want to *marry* them?? Just looking for a few statistics here....... Bill B. **************Shop Inspiron, Studio and XPS Laptops at Dell.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222616459x1201464730/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.d oubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215218145%3B37264238%3Bd) From desmondravenstone@yahoo.com Wed Jun 3 11:10:46 2009 Received: from web50506.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web50506.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.38.82]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n53FAfp3015740 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:10:41 -0400 Received: (qmail 26233 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jun 2009 15:10:41 -0000 Message-ID: <145542.1719.qm@web50506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 0CJO8W8VM1kntw0L0z1I.Um94Mq3ZotLgPksdUUKiIRSLvSRaTgwQJiG9pmMGtcUHa.xBh4oOH93CEN7QBpXYGS5VL9CWkjdUv_A8zD_pUXCklAzCh.FLTfFkGGWLDr8Iiorlx0N1ylafOR4UFFs0C7QqeHKaQdp.x6yTdx2.2FJVISbRReCorS.Y0TLDGZYzOncbcFwEjgS7sKvDkCzG_JtvpkJUuP9eIBhat0OEHDoptZQ0D2pAygFeuO7H0L8g7pHFWNXNkcH9FWC_enBl1a3zuOD64BJcWUSl__m6M787k_G1FdKg2RNn0h4aY0NdXTSPvY5PEQsB2vTvJBRt.lUubzP4yNHEA-- Received: from [173.124.169.249] by web50506.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:10:40 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.4.12 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 From: Desmond Ravenstone To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id n53FAfp3015740 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Beastly marriages (Cheney Speaks) X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:10:46 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 08:10:40 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:10:46 -0000 --- On Wed, 6/3/09, WABaldwin@aol.com wrote: > So I'm curious -- since someone always brings this up.... > > I know that some people have sex with animals, > but...reallly.....how many > people want to *marry* them?? There's a story I read that a town clerk in Colorado started issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples in the 1970's, because the law did not make it clear what the gender makeup of the spouses had to be. An irate farmer then brought in his mule, saying he wanted to marry her. "How old is she?" the clerk asked. "Seven," the farmer said. The clerk explained this was well below the age of consent, thus settling the matter. Desmond Ravenstone "Do not do unto others as you expect they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same." -- George Bernard Shaw http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone From JasmineGld@aol.com Wed Jun 3 11:22:13 2009 Received: from imr-d02.mx.aol.com (imr-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n53FMCTm017621 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:22:12 -0400 Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imr-d02.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-44a26949734c; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:19:51 -0400 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id g.c38.55dc3a0c (32915) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:19:46 -0400 (EDT) From: JasmineGld@aol.com Message-ID: To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5379 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.137 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Cheney Speaks X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:22:13 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:19:45 EDT X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:22:13 -0000 In a message dated 6/3/2009 10:35:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, WABaldwin@aol.com writes: >I know that some people have sex with animals, but...reallly.....how many > people want to *marry* them?? > >Just looking for a few statistics here....... I remember a news story from somewhere in Africa where polygamy is legal. A man was tried and convicted of bestiality with a goat. His sentence was to marry the goat. The purpose of the sentence, so I'm told, was that no woman would ever consent to be second wife to a first-wife who was a goat. So the man was effectively sentenced to never being able to marry. And no, I can't confirm it. Jasmine **************Shop Inspiron, Studio and XPS Laptops at Dell.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222616459x1201464730/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.d oubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215218145%3B37264238%3Bd) From earthfather@cfnc.us Wed Jun 3 13:38:28 2009 Received: from vms173007pub.verizon.net (vms173007pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.7]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n53HbFkQ001665 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 13:38:26 -0400 Received: from MVRLENOVO ([173.79.172.43]) by vms173007.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKO000TA99FWJI0@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:46:30 -0500 (CDT) From: "Michael Rios" To: References: Message-id: <8E76066195F94A0D84C494AB8AFFB557@MVRLENOVO> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: Thread-index: AcnkWLmqc7+cWKpDSAKlNzVifLX1ZAAEY7DQ X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Cheney Speaks X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 17:38:28 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 12:46:27 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 17:38:28 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: WABaldwin@aol.com > > > In a message dated 6/3/2009 7:22:03 A.M. Pacific Daylight > Time, JasmineGld@aol.com writes: > > "If freedom to marry means, as he said, that people ought > to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish, well > then, he's virtually endorsing > polyamory and polygamy, and incestuous marriage, and > bestiality," Barber > claims. "[There are] no holds barred here." > > > So I'm curious -- since someone always brings this up.... > > I know that some people have sex with animals, > but...reallly.....how many people want to *marry* them?? The real answer to this is "consent". Any arrangement among *consenting adults* should be allowed. Goats can't give consent; neither can children. "Incestuous" marriage already takes place legally in all manner of circumstances; it just needs court permission, depending on how closely the parties are related. Michael Rios From airsafe1@comcast.net Wed Jun 3 14:16:48 2009 Received: from QMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.243]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n53IFXwX005771 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 14:16:43 -0400 Received: from OMTA01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.11]) by QMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id zPif1b0060EPchoADWFRNr; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:15:25 +0000 Received: from DaveVostro1400 ([76.29.163.51]) by OMTA01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id zWFQ1b00716qme48MWFQQS; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:15:25 +0000 From: "David Hall" To: References: <14454858.1244043158066.JavaMail.root@n01> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcnkYIZsdarUVOrwQ5uau+ZEHNYdZAAFSw5g In-Reply-To: <14454858.1244043158066.JavaMail.root@n01> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: [UUPoly-L] More fun on loving animals, maybe more than one X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:16:49 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:15:22 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:16:49 -0000 For those who are in California, the San Francisco Mime Troup will be giving free shows, in many venues, called "Too Big To Fail". Press release copied in part: "Told in the tradition of the West African Griots, this modern day epic follows Filiji, a man in love with his family, his village, and most of all, his goat, Bamuso. What more could a man need to be happy? How about two goats? Three? A flock? Turned down for a loan by the village micro bank, Filiji, now the self-proclaimed Goat Lord of Kanabeedomo, borrows from a new lender in town, a small subsidiary of a much bigger bank in a distant, mystical land called Wall Street. When the economy takes a sudden turn for the worse, the bank gets desperate and calls in Filiji's loan. Housing is down, credit is down, dividends are down, and like any Ponzi scheme, a constant flow of cash is essential, but where will it come from? Is it simply enough to let Filiji pay his small debt, or have the Wall Street big-wigs stumbled upon the latest, greatest investment bubble to exploit - goats? How will Filiji save himself and his collateral, the beloved Bamuso? Can America be shifted to a goat economy? How did all of the greed get started, and more importantly, how the hell can we turn it off?" www.sfmt.org Gotta be a blast, these are great folk, nearly 40 years of political theater, all free. See it if you can. Love all your animals! Dave -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+airsafe1=comcast.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+airsafe1=comcast.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of JasmineGld@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 8:20 AM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Cheney Speaks In a message dated 6/3/2009 10:35:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, WABaldwin@aol.com writes: >I know that some people have sex with animals, but...reallly.....how >many > people want to *marry* them?? > >Just looking for a few statistics here....... I remember a news story from somewhere in Africa where polygamy is legal. A man was tried and convicted of bestiality with a goat. His sentence was to marry the goat. The purpose of the sentence, so I'm told, was that no woman would ever consent to be second wife to a first-wife who was a goat. So the man was effectively sentenced to never being able to marry. And no, I can't confirm it. Jasmine **************Shop Inspiron, Studio and XPS Laptops at Dell.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222616459x1201464730/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Fad.d oubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215218145%3B37264238%3Bd) _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From dpagano@igc.org Thu Jun 4 00:16:49 2009 Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n544GlYv023521 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 00:16:47 -0400 Received: from [209.86.224.40] (helo=elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MC4Nj-0002kh-Nj for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Thu, 04 Jun 2009 00:16:47 -0400 Received: from 99.190.99.132 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 00:16:47 -0400 Message-ID: <15742603.1244089007702.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Darlene Pagano To: UU Poly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 39a82346d7ceb269f84080ff3e30f22cbc7b59993135639f92fda909ed0fd55e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.40 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id n544GlYv023521 Subject: [UUPoly-L] In the SF Bay area X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: Darlene Pagano , uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 04:16:49 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 00:16:47 -0400 (EDT) X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 04:16:49 -0000 Hi all, I am convening a group to look at the *new* UUA/Interweave curriculum with folks from a couple of congregations during June. I wanted to invite any SFBA folks to attend as well. I have NOT seen the curriculum yet, but I noticed in the goals that they will be addressing, within the context of identity, polyamory and polyfidelity. Let me know if you can attend. And anyone from ANYWHERE is welcome to send me feedback from your experience with this curriculum. Darlene A Summertime Exploration of the new UUA/Interweave BiSexuality Curriculum. >From The Curriculum's Introduction Welcome to the wonderful, complicated world of bisexuality. We are glad you have decided to take the risk to learn more, be moved, be startled, and be accepting. Bisexuals and bisexuality are part of life — congregational and societal. We are everywhere You can see introductory information via the UUA website: http://www.interweavecontinental.org/index.php?title=Bisexuality_Curriculum I am calling this group to meet 4 Mondays in June 8,15,22,29 This will be an entirely self-led group (I am NOT teaching) that I expect to be interesting, enjoyable, easy going, and best of all--fun. This material is meant to be inclusive of Youth and Young Adults. We will gather NOT at First Unitarian Church, but a meeting facility very close to the Lake Merrit BART station. No cost, but donations for the church are welcome. Contact me, Darlene Pagano, dpagano@igc.org for questions, suggestions and sign ups. Goals • Familiarize participants with bisexuality and some of the various definitions and descriptions bisexuals use for themselves. • Give participants the knowledge and language to counter assumptions and stereotypes they may hear. • Place bisexuality in a context and examine its relationships to other sexual orientations, questions of gender identity, and polyamory and polyfidelity. • Show the links between various oppressions. • Make it easier for bisexuals to be out, accepted, and understood. • Empower participants to make their congregations, organizations, and wider communities more just and welcoming. • Do all of this within a space that is safe and friendly where participants enjoy each other’s company and get to know visit the website of ColorLines magazine www.colorlines.com From dragon_mbs_2000@yahoo.com Thu Jun 4 01:06:02 2009 Received: from web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.48.108]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n5454nHc028186 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 01:06:00 -0400 Received: (qmail 68917 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2009 05:04:49 -0000 Message-ID: <716983.68240.qm@web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: BYw67hEVM1mlezwhj.A1VzsBsI_x0q7I1g9oM1LqCGNcxBX6i7jKQhRV7kDsfms0SfK86nuFx6DVkBSAslPP0_kMO2uBLomZT_PSQQ5MCeGWqMPaHDW4_n2Kjcxid4W52yq154HpyB6ClX8b_B4PdmcRo0AYYL0QyxogvNzwHjeU87WpG1r_ZyQnZBuWDdx2ZOMoTL5t64ECQQ2tOL6Kmam1UbMVttxb1TU10IsLpCiIa5IsAKp54fmnPaZkTpzOnPeEvbdpeeRsndUoQBhim7kNgjoscgrqxi2YzL.FWvA4UElkD4bKStLijK5gOgof5vwBiZieFmYgZYTNJVgZ3AC2z.7a14JAnz.7G5WUWg-- Received: from [76.103.83.87] by web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:04:49 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.4.12 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 From: mbs dragon To: Darlene Pagano , uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] In the SF Bay area X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 05:06:03 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:04:49 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 05:06:03 -0000 I would definitely be interested in finding out more about this and attendi= ng this group.=C2=A0 I attend MDUUC in Walnut Creek and they are very open = and welcoming about bisexuality and polyamory.=C2=A0 Please let me know the= details. Thanks, Mary Beth Spencer (510) 921-9596 Now is the moment to be a bungee jumper without the cord! And it is this qu= ality of absolute trust, with no reservations or secret safety nets, that t= he Knight of Water demands from us.=20 Osho International Foundation 2009 Trust Card --- On Wed, 6/3/09, Darlene Pagano wrote: From: Darlene Pagano Subject: [UUPoly-L] In the SF Bay area To: "UU Poly" Date: Wednesday, June 3, 2009, 9:16 PM Hi all,=20 I am convening a group to look at the *new* UUA/Interweave curriculum with = folks from a couple of congregations during June.=C2=A0 I wanted to invite = any SFBA folks to attend as well.=C2=A0 I have NOT seen the curriculum yet,= but I noticed in the goals that they will be addressing, within the contex= t of identity, polyamory and polyfidelity.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Let me know if = you can attend.=C2=A0 And anyone from ANYWHERE is welcome to send me feedba= ck from your experience with this curriculum.=20 Darlene A Summertime Exploration of the new UUA/Interweave BiSexuality Curriculum.= =20 >From The Curriculum's Introduction Welcome to the wonderful, complicated world of bisexuality. We are glad you= have decided to take the risk to learn more, be moved, be startled, and be= accepting. Bisexuals and bisexuality are part of life =E2=80=94 congregati= onal and societal. We are everywhere You can see introductory information via the UUA website: http://www.interweavecontinental.org/index.php?title=3DBisexuality_Curricul= um I am calling this group to meet 4 Mondays in June 8,15,22,29 This will be an entirely self-led group (I am NOT teaching) that I expect t= o be interesting, enjoyable, easy going, and best of all--fun.=C2=A0 This m= aterial is meant to be inclusive of Youth and Young Adults.=20 We will gather NOT at First Unitarian Church, but a meeting facility very c= lose to the Lake Merrit BART station. No cost, but donations for the church= are welcome.=C2=A0=20 Contact me, Darlene Pagano, dpagano@igc.org for questions, suggestions and = sign ups.=20 Goals=20 =E2=80=A2=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Familiarize participants with bisexuality and s= ome of the various definitions and descriptions bisexuals use for themselve= s.=20 =E2=80=A2=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Give participants the knowledge and language to= counter assumptions and stereotypes they may hear.=20 =E2=80=A2=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Place bisexuality in a context and examine its = relationships to other sexual orientations, questions of gender identity, a= nd polyamory and polyfidelity.=20 =E2=80=A2=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Show the links between various oppressions.=20 =E2=80=A2=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Make it easier for bisexuals to be out, accepte= d, and understood.=20 =E2=80=A2=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Empower participants to make their congregation= s, organizations, and wider communities more just and welcoming.=20 =E2=80=A2=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Do all of this within a space that is safe and = friendly where participants enjoy each other=E2=80=99s company and get to k= now=20 visit the website of ColorLines magazine www.colorlines.com _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l =0A=0A=0A From greystone.house@pacbell.net Thu Jun 4 03:33:33 2009 Received: from smtp109.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (smtp109.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [67.195.14.39]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n547WIr7006890 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 03:33:29 -0400 Received: (qmail 21003 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2009 07:32:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO EMILYADMINPC) (greystone.house@75.18.222.211 with login) by smtp109.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2009 07:32:17 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 2iFPiBYVM1kczBebaySNkjUlpBOSoSK.zcZP_8sY70WM9cu3V7p17XLluBV.CVted1esriO33LYUqpuvIXTYsgkkgbKcS_I7CeZwNsKquBcOE08zwOqDxPbRS7.itDJcb3dm7AzH6Vztk5T.nNA_K37RSYlzvOadBBwUwQJ9V20UxgUz9Nj4R7N2N_6TxMU9r080_6.KH5aD4pp0.S3MORF_O23R_kW6.JeDEEjfn3OI8mLfBD01qOPsMWZ3KnSgc0o.cffjPAtWiQI- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <0F424E47B7FF47D5A783839FF318110F@EMILYADMINPC> From: "Emily M.-R. B." To: References: <15742603.1244089007702.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <15742603.1244089007702.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Organization: Greystone House MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] In the SF Bay area X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 07:33:33 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 00:32:16 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 07:33:33 -0000 I might be interested, but I'm unclear on a couple of points.... You wrote: > Hi all, > I am convening a group to look at the *new* UUA/Interweave curriculum with > folks from a couple of congregations > during June. I wanted to invite any SFBA folks to attend as well. I have > NOT seen the curriculum yet, but I noticed in > the goals that they will be addressing, within the context of identity, > polyamory and polyfidelity. I'm not a member of any congregation (nor have I been in the past). UU has been on my list of things that I *intend* to get involved with for a while, but I've been a bit shy about actually doing so. Therefore my attendance depends in part on what the goal of the class is. Is this the actual class or is it more of a review & discussion for the purpose of understanding how best to utilize it in individual congregations? And further down it says: > I am calling this group to meet 4 Mondays in June 8,15,22,29 > This will be an entirely self-led group (I am NOT teaching) that I expect > to be interesting, enjoyable, easy going, and > best of all--fun. This material is meant to be inclusive of Youth and > Young Adults. It's been a few years since I've qualified as one of the "Young Adults"...! Are you saying that it's *for* them, or is it for everyone *including* "Youth and Young Adults"? (I.e. not excluding them on the basis of their age?) Last, what hour are you looking at? It does sound interesting and (depending on your answers) might be just the thing to get me moving on getting more involved...! Thanks, - Emily From wild_card@sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 4 08:51:57 2009 Received: from web83002.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web83002.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.87.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n54CorBb002156 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 08:51:54 -0400 Received: (qmail 32696 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2009 12:50:53 -0000 Message-ID: <458603.31474.qm@web83002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: XUoqLZEVM1nr0W7vYQap2gtoctkWKI0Wf2aB_iSGZuifzewXKkDPsZhmd902Moq7Dnc3Ho0ASDClv.7a0ua7H8qFQyIMiyneZFcCgdCpYQgkVjyDgghOUI7luwq26.FqKTDPLYpGwROpgl3wHnvGmxtl7uQbz8iYarwjzpsuqVjUnZRxeGk27a5X0EPXDuJ86DnhzHwWfepoZNzpPOlqF73NvUnU8SGrGped1GHDvjcRcVDdnB8mLIyF63EcEMW.sj0GkeSBAMilDYtkqae0A42C9o6EoVp0FEqYDVj.IOoZo4Ao_o4ENzT1WkA9H.5OB0ANJKxhpWSeJJ3OIpxM7UsARI5_TGW6HnI- Received: from [75.21.75.105] by web83002.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Jun 2009 05:50:53 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.3.9 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 From: P O To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Beastly Marriages X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:51:57 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 05:50:53 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:51:57 -0000 Very little reliable data, actually.=A0 When I tried doing some research fo= r a class a while back, I found that the topics of bestiality and zoophilia= (which is the more likely candidate for marriage) are not just poorly stud= ied, but that in many cases the study is in fact actively discouraged.=A0= =20 So, if you want real statistics, you're not likely to find any that are use= ful.=A0 But the assumption is that both disorders are very rare, with zooph= ilia being the rarer of the two.=A0 Personally, I think that's because it's= very hard to define where your obsession with your pet becomes unhealthy, = but it's easy to say that having sexual contact with an animal is clearly w= rong.=A0=20 I think it's similar to why people use sex to define polyamory, even when m= ost polys admit that it's about more then the sex.=A0 Some will even count = people as partners, even if they are no longer having sex, because it's abo= ut love.=A0 But then it's hard to draw a hard boundary on love to say this = is a very close friend and this is too far for social mores, but sex is an = easy line to draw.=A0 You can love your best friend and enjoy spending time= with them.=A0 You can do everything with them, take them with your family = wherever you go.=A0 But the instant you have any sort of sexual contact, it= 's over the line.=A0=20 *shrug*=A0 I guess in our society, sex is just the easiest line to draw.=A0= Maybe that's why we're so obsessed with it. --- On Wed, 6/3/09, uupoly-l-request@uupa.org w= rote: In a message dated 6/3/2009 7:22:03 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,=A0=20 JasmineGld@aol.com writes: "If=A0 freedom to marry means, as he said, that=A0 people ought to be free = to=A0=20 enter into any kind of union they wish, well then,=A0 he's virtually=A0=20 endorsing=20 polyamory and polygamy, and incestuous marriage, and=A0=A0=A0bestiality," B= arber=20 claims. "[There are] no holds barred here."=A0=A0=A0 So I'm curious -- since someone always brings this up.... =20 I know that some people have sex with animals, but...reallly.....how many= =A0=20 people want to *marry* them?? =20 Just looking for a few statistics here....... =20 Bill B. From anthony.roza@gmail.com Thu Jun 4 09:13:25 2009 Received: from mail-fx0-f207.google.com (mail-fx0-f207.google.com [209.85.220.207]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n54DDIvC005079 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 09:13:23 -0400 Received: by fxm3 with SMTP id 3so791968fxm.26 for ; Thu, 04 Jun 2009 06:13:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.67.66 with SMTP id q2mr1978704bki.161.1244121196111; Thu, 04 Jun 2009 06:13:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <458603.31474.qm@web83002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <458603.31474.qm@web83002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5aaa462a0906040613t701cacjd927df5cf0656e2a@mail.gmail.com> From: Roza Anthony To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Beastly Marriages X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:13:30 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 09:13:16 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:13:30 -0000 "I guess in our society, sex is just the easiest line to draw. Maybe that's why we're so obsessed with it." Thank you! I've been trying to get people to talk about that for years! Roza From kb4wyr@fhrd.net Fri Jun 5 18:04:01 2009 Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n55M2ltP003297 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:03:57 -0400 Received: (qmail 9689 invoked by uid 1006); 5 Jun 2009 22:02:46 -0000 Received: from kb4wyr@fhrd.net by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.2.5. Clear:SA:0(0.1/100.0):. Processed in 1.380878 secs); 05 Jun 2009 22:02:46 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=100.0 X-Spam-Level: Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.4) by -v with SMTP; 5 Jun 2009 22:02:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 22605 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2009 22:02:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO VerdigrisMobile) (70.41.93.123) by -v with SMTP; 5 Jun 2009 22:02:41 -0000 From: "Christine Heinsohn" To: , , , , , Message-ID: <009201c9e629$4ce58e50$e6b0aaf0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AcnmKUMbytFaEmzOR1K0W/nZegIEug== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] "Let me give you your heart's desire!" X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 22:04:01 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:02:05 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 22:04:01 -0000 I have spent a little time cruising the personal ads on OKCupid. Their marketing campaign has been more effective with their Quiver messages. But the cruising has like really caused me to think about things and I find I am disgruntled. So many are either, "I can be the dream man every woman desires" or "I want this kind of woman so if you can't meet those criteria don't contact me" I was in a relationship once when I was told that I didn't know how to Love the other person and I was then instructed how that love should be conducted. There was an expected model of behavior. This was not about acting out some role for play, this was about being role the other desired. It was not about being desired by the other, as the other desired a body to fulfill the role. I was young and inexperienced then. I know I am not a role now. The ads have provoked flashbacks to a couple of contacts I have had in the Poly community. One said, "Tell me your heart's desire. Let me give you, your heart's desire". Another said, "I am all about making others' dreams come true. That's really what I am good at making others' dreams come true." These folks seemed to focus primarily on this form of relating. If you asked for their input, their wants, their desires, they brushed that off as not important. Both of these statements were followed by great sadness on my part. I couldn't understand. Here were people trying to make me or other people happy, why was that sad..years later...I know why now For me a good relationship is based on knowing the other person and being known by that person. Not so I can control them and manipulate their moods, but for the shear excitement of knowing them and being known. In the knowing is an acknowledgement of the uniqueness of each of us as individuals, in the knowing is the acknowledgement of the existence of each of us as individuals. That's what relating is about. If a relationship is based on making dreams come true or giving someone their hearts desire, where is the recognition of EACH person's uniqueness and where is the acknowledgement EACH person's existence. If you are focus is giving the other person what they want, where are you? How are you to be known? If you are not known how can you really return the favor of knowing? Maybe I am just to existential. I may enjoy playing with roles, but I will not live a role to make another happy. I might ask another if they would like to participate in an activity, but fulfilling that request will not be a condition of my happiness. If my happiness is based on someone else being exactly as I want them to be I am in need of therapy. If my happiness is based on someone giving me my dreams, my dreams are not worth much and they are not mine any longer. And again, I am need of therapy. Thanks for letting me vent. Christine Heinsohn From valerie@valeriewhite.org Sat Jun 6 12:47:23 2009 Received: from cosmos.phy.tufts.edu (cosmos.phy.tufts.edu [130.64.83.16]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n56GkCl7010747 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2009 12:47:22 -0400 Received: from p92-11.acedsl.com ([66.114.92.11]:2750 helo=VW.valeriewhite.org) by cosmos.phy.tufts.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MCz23-0003ah-QG for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 12:46:11 -0400 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20090606124427.028b0a40@valeriewhite.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org From: Valerie White Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [UUPoly-L] request for referral X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:47:23 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 12:46:05 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:47:23 -0000 Does anybody have any Kentucky connections? I have a poly woman in need of counsel for a custody problem ASAP. She's in Lexington, but if you know ANY kink/poly friendly attorneys in KY let me know . . . they might be a source of further referrals. V Valerie White Executive Director Sexual Freedom Legal Defense and Education Fund, Inc. www.sfldef.org From catdeville@cox.net Sat Jun 6 13:58:53 2009 Received: from fed1rmmtao103.cox.net (fed1rmmtao103.cox.net [68.230.241.43]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n56Hvebq016034 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2009 13:58:51 -0400 Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao103.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20090606175635.ULJV2915.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>; Sat, 6 Jun 2009 13:56:35 -0400 Received: from infinity ([68.7.251.250]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id 0hwb1c00P5QuEGc04hwbef; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 13:56:36 -0400 X-VR-Score: 0.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=563KxnP83oEA:10 a=OJQUQGh89iwA:10 a=VcXpplIdAAAA:8 a=qV0mfD4mAAAA:8 a=jQ6AZyd00iv-txS-pnsA:9 a=qXIkOLl3dVgkTVdo0k8zEAk8HDkA:4 a=ao4RW71Vw8YA:10 X-CM-Score: 0.00 From: "Catherine Deville" To: , , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: Acnm0ByX9KoPoUTjRLWT6fkAycVU4g== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Message-Id: <20090606175635.ULJV2915.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Cc: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: [UUPoly-L] DATE CHANGE: SD (San Diego) Poly Network Monthly Discussion Meeting. X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 17:58:53 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:56:30 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 17:58:53 -0000 The SD Poly Network Monthly Discussion Meeting is changing dates. The 4th Tuesday of the month conflicts with another meeting that some group members attend, so we're changing the date we meet to the 2nd Tuesday of the month, beginning this month. When: 2nd Thursday of the month Beginning in June Next Date: Tuesday, June 9th Time: 7 PM - 9 PM Where: Cafe Libertalia Backroom (in the back behind the curtain) 3834 Fifth Avenue San Diego, CA 92103 http://www.cafelibertalia.com/index.htm This is an informal, moderated "pow wow" style discussion. This is a relatively new function, and so far we've had a small, informal, intimate group, and we just decide the topic based on what everyone wants to discuss. Everyone's encouraged to chime in and all opinions will be given respectful space. Eventually the discussion may evolve to one with more of a preplanned structure and may include presentations by guest speakers. If we get volunteers, I'm hoping that we will also rotate moderators, so that things don't get stale. The San Diego Poly Network is an informal networking group communicating through Yahoo Groups at SDPolyNetwork@yahoogroups.com. We are not an "organization" or a "club", just a group created to provide opportunities for those interested in polyamory to socialize, learn and network. The purpose of the San Diego Poly Network is to provide opportunities for *anyone* wanting to socialize or network in the San Diego, CA area. The group focus is on networking, education and socializing. We have established one informal moderated discussion a month, and are now seeking to establish at least one social evening out a month, and to provide various other opportunities for people to get together. At our last monthly discussion, we ended our discussion talking about what kind of expanded opportunities the San Diego Poly Network could provide to support networking in the San Diego community. Different ideas, such as organizing a monthly social night out which changes formats (dinner, clubbing, picnic, etc.) and venues each month were bounced around, and I'm hoping to see folks continue that discussion on group, and that more folks will take up the baton to help provide diverse functions for the community. *VOLUNTARY* donations are *accepted* (not required) at this event to defray the cost of reserving the room, also, the cafe owner appreciates any patronization. But this is a free event, and no one should stay away for lack of funds. Hope to see you there! Never Thirst, Cat From petebenson@starpower.net Sun Jun 7 01:12:05 2009 Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.102]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n575AoDw018120 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 01:12:00 -0400 Received: from mr02.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.22]) by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 07 Jun 2009 01:10:50 -0400 Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by mr02.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 3.10.5-GA) with ESMTP id PYJ66818; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 01:10:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Auth-ID: petebenson Received: from 97-125-15-133.eugn.qwest.net (HELO Neuron) ([97.125.15.133]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 07 Jun 2009 01:10:39 -0400 Message-ID: <379A49D9D1684E059C5B2876D4907050@Neuron> From: "Pete Benson" To: References: <009201c9e629$4ce58e50$e6b0aaf0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Junkmail-Whitelist: YES (by domain whitelist at mr02.lnh.mail.rcn.net) Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] "Let me give you your heart's desire!" X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 05:12:05 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:10:34 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 05:12:05 -0000 I know whereof you speak, Christine. My first wife was such a master at squelching her own desires for the sake of pleasing me that (in my youthful navet at the time) I had no idea she was doing so. She didn't *say* she "just wanted to please me"; I considered that we were 100% compatible, because no disagreement was ever expressed. Then as now, I have had no desire to be controlling nor controlled in a relationship. But it was only after she left me, after 8 years of marriage and 2 children, that I inferred that she must have had some dissatisfactions with our relationship. I never did learn *what* those dissatisfactions were, because she couldn't bring herself to tell me even then -- so needness to say there was no opportunity to try to resolve them. I have come to call this personality type the "chameleon". While there's plenty of room for personal preferences in relationships, I agree with you that any relationship, to be healthy, has to include a give and take of desires and open expression of one's own feelings, of "knowing and being known", as you put it. Pete Benson The Polyamory Handbook www.polyamoryhandbook.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Heinsohn" To: ; ; ; ; ; Sent: 5 June, 2009 3:02 PM Subject: [UUPoly-L] "Let me give you your heart's desire!" >I have spent a little time cruising the personal ads on OKCupid. Their > marketing campaign has been more effective with their Quiver messages. > But > the cruising has like really caused me to think about things and I find I > am > disgruntled. > > > > So many are either, "I can be the dream man every woman desires" or "I > want > this kind of woman so if you can't meet those criteria don't contact me" > > > > I was in a relationship once when I was told that I didn't know how to > Love > the other person and I was then instructed how that love should be > conducted. There was an expected model of behavior. This was not about > acting out some role for play, this was about being role the other > desired. > It was not about being desired by the other, as the other desired a body > to > fulfill the role. I was young and inexperienced then. I know I am not a > role now. > > > > The ads have provoked flashbacks to a couple of contacts I have had in the > Poly community. One said, "Tell me your heart's desire. Let me give you, > your heart's desire". Another said, "I am all about making others' dreams > come true. That's really what I am good at making others' dreams come > true." These folks seemed to focus primarily on this form of relating. > If > you asked for their input, their wants, their desires, they brushed that > off > as not important. Both of these statements were followed by great sadness > on my part. I couldn't understand. Here were people trying to make me or > other people happy, why was that sad..years later...I know why now > > > > For me a good relationship is based on knowing the other person and being > known by that person. Not so I can control them and manipulate their > moods, > but for the shear excitement of knowing them and being known. In the > knowing is an acknowledgement of the uniqueness of each of us as > individuals, in the knowing is the acknowledgement of the existence of > each > of us as individuals. That's what relating is about. > > > > If a relationship is based on making dreams come true or giving someone > their hearts desire, where is the recognition of EACH person's uniqueness > and where is the acknowledgement EACH person's existence. If you are > focus > is giving the other person what they want, where are you? How are you to > be > known? If you are not known how can you really return the favor of > knowing? > > > > Maybe I am just to existential. I may enjoy playing with roles, but I > will > not live a role to make another happy. I might ask another if they would > like to participate in an activity, but fulfilling that request will not > be > a condition of my happiness. If my happiness is based on someone else > being > exactly as I want them to be I am in need of therapy. If my happiness is > based on someone giving me my dreams, my dreams are not worth much and > they > are not mine any longer. And again, I am need of therapy. > > > > Thanks for letting me vent. > > > > Christine Heinsohn From valerie@valeriewhite.org Sun Jun 7 19:25:41 2009 Received: from cosmos.phy.tufts.edu (cosmos.phy.tufts.edu [130.64.83.16]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n57NOUV4025259 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:25:40 -0400 Received: from p92-11.acedsl.com ([66.114.92.11]:4219 helo=VW.valeriewhite.org) by cosmos.phy.tufts.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MDRj0-0005ZA-48 for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 19:24:27 -0400 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20090607192110.063e7ad0@valeriewhite.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org From: Valerie White Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [UUPoly-L] a pleasant surprise X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 23:25:41 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 19:24:04 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 23:25:41 -0000 This morning was "Rainbow Sunday" at my church . . . everybody wears a solid-color-of-the-rainbow shirt and after church we arrange ourselves in a human rainbow and take pictures. There was a rainbow of balloons in the sanctuary. The sermon began with an acknowledgement that this was a day we celebrate diversity . . . and the minister said "of sexual EXPRESSION"--not sexual "orientation". I felt so included. V From alanmacrobert@gmail.com Mon Jun 8 12:31:39 2009 Received: from mail-ew0-f205.google.com (mail-ew0-f205.google.com [209.85.219.205]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n58GVZSA022192 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:31:35 -0400 Received: by ewy1 with SMTP id 1so4771446ewy.26 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 09:31:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: alanmacrobert@gmail.com Received: by 10.210.144.3 with SMTP id r3mr6684128ebd.51.1244478690768; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 09:31:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8b16a1a8a144e830 Message-ID: From: alan7388 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] a pleasant surprise X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:31:39 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:31:30 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:31:39 -0000 Yay, Val! Such a small change in wording may go by many people, but it means a lot: that sexuality is not just about an "orientation" that people are born with like some unfortunate disability, but is also a choice of how you run your relationships and your life. Which if done in harmony with basic ethics such as the UU Principles and Purposes[1], is good and to be celebrated. Alan M. [1] Or the "princes and perps" as I've heard them called. BTW, in preparing for the Boston Pride Festival next Saturday (where I'll be at a booth giving out a UUPA flyer as well as other lit), I dug out a bunch of copies of Jasmine's long essay "Polyamory and the Unitarian Universalist Association Principles and Purposes." Worth remembering that it's available. Here it is: http://uupa.org/Literature/polyprinciples.html From finian0178@yahoo.com Mon Jun 8 16:17:57 2009 Received: from web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.178.167]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n58KGjTR010481 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 16:17:55 -0400 Received: (qmail 98001 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jun 2009 20:16:44 -0000 Message-ID: <800452.97245.qm@web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: K_Zn7jEVM1ko_RaqPOQb3kGBKbgvi7MW18nRExe1eOg4VUgX2ueGz3mssGPKbEZQvlCvs3A8zL6ny0AQFWIPxg..KfuzxRSvZPE.m_TB8JDjrYkm7MVK.ONq6QoRhd6ZAOscWs4ame5o6STUxJjHz5m90cE6HJp8wU2cWxAJVMmqgpD4KXvAyy8B5A2lXsXsE_AvrA43iZqL22eCSO7_g27jCspkO0kbfzeJ27xyaFbaqYBe4jPPm4dMiCDvrWbXbzdOFNImpRd5YSVYhVnlwNullNBnR4xwOHkj8D.PJXEIEuD1ygcce6dijXqSCH2a5XoYmkNZEQ83Xb9.05rmVfs3Oa0g61VLhyI- Received: from [71.82.69.168] by web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:16:44 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.4.12 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 From: "Joelle O'Bryan" To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] a pleasant surprise X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:17:57 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 13:16:44 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:17:57 -0000 that word change is great! Would you mind if I shared this email with my co= -chair of the social justice committee at my fellowship? We regularly talk = about how those of us on the non-heterosexual (and me for being poly) feel = like a minority within a minority. love & light =0AJoelle --- Valerie White schrieb am So, 7.6.2009: Von: Valerie White Betreff: [UUPoly-L] a pleasant surprise An: uupoly-l@uupa.org Datum: Sonntag, 7. Juni 2009, 19:24 This morning was "Rainbow Sunday" at my church . . . everybody wears=20 a solid-color-of-the-rainbow shirt and after church we arrange=20 ourselves in a human rainbow and take pictures.=A0 There was a rainbow=20 of balloons in the sanctuary.=A0 The sermon began with an=20 acknowledgement that this was a day we celebrate diversity . . . and=20 the minister said "of sexual EXPRESSION"--not sexual=20 "orientation".=A0 I felt so included. V _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l =0A=0A=0A From valerie@valeriewhite.org Mon Jun 8 16:44:35 2009 Received: from cosmos.phy.tufts.edu (cosmos.phy.tufts.edu [130.64.83.16]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n58KhN8v013128 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 16:44:33 -0400 Received: from p92-11.acedsl.com ([66.114.92.11]:1477 helo=VW.valeriewhite.org) by cosmos.phy.tufts.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MDlgg-0007OO-P8 for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:43:22 -0400 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20090608164247.028f2300@valeriewhite.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org From: Valerie White In-Reply-To: <800452.97245.qm@web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <800452.97245.qm@web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] a pleasant surprise X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:44:35 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:42:59 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:44:35 -0000 At 04:16 PM 6/8/2009, you wrote: >that word change is great! Would you mind if I shared this email >with my co-chair of the social justice committee at my fellowship? >We regularly talk about how those of us on the non-heterosexual (and >me for being poly) feel like a minority within a minority. > >love & light > >Joelle Not in the least! V From cwlee@post.harvard.edu Mon Jun 8 18:32:53 2009 Received: from elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n58MWr7N021022 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 18:32:53 -0400 Received: from [66.81.105.160] (helo=System4) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MDnOe-0004YX-FB for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:32:53 -0400 Message-ID: <84F1B9D7B9924AEB938477760C60B9A0@System4> From: "CWLee" To: References: <800452.97245.qm@web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20090608164247.028f2300@valeriewhite.org> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20090608164247.028f2300@valeriewhite.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 X-ELNK-Trace: 7141e3bbddc8a6d4f1b7fbad2ae65da374bf435c0eb9d478dcb7fc5533b6bef80633135e94a230701078014d79f2edab350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.81.105.160 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] a pleasant surprise X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 22:32:53 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 15:32:45 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 22:32:53 -0000 From: "Valerie White" wrote: "diversity ... of sexual EXPRESSION". Wow! I always thought that meant using the whole bird, not just the feathers. :-) Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. From valerie@valeriewhite.org Fri Jun 12 21:02:24 2009 Received: from cosmos.phy.tufts.edu (cosmos.phy.tufts.edu [130.64.83.16]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5D11DbF017370 for ; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:02:23 -0400 Received: from p92-11.acedsl.com ([66.114.92.11]:2069 helo=VW.valeriewhite.org) by cosmos.phy.tufts.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MFHcN-000604-BX for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:01:11 -0400 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20090612205624.028c3a78@valeriewhite.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org From: Valerie White Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [UUPoly-L] even more good news X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 01:02:24 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:01:04 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 01:02:24 -0000 Tonight was the annual congregational meeting and potluck, the end of my five years as president. It also happened to be my birthday--64th. At the potluck, they surprised me with a song to the tune of the Beattle's "Will you still need me, will you still feed me . . ." The song mentioned my presidency and my horseback riding and canoeing . . . and at one point it said, "Ken and Judy by your side". I am so very blessed in this congregation. Valerie PS I also got a framed certificate and a silver chalice pendant with the flame a musical note . . . perfect for me. From invite+2jj0oy=9@facebookmail.com Sat Jun 13 00:11:28 2009 Received: from mx-out.facebook.com (outmail007.ash1.tfbnw.net [69.63.184.107]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5D4AFZU028089 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 00:11:25 -0400 Received: from [10.18.255.178] ([10.18.255.178:40036] helo=localhost.localdomain) by mta003.ash1.facebook.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.37 r(28805/28844)) with ESMTP id BD/AF-29121-5A6233A4; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:10:13 -0700 X-Facebook: from zuckmail ([]) by localhost.localdomain with local (ZuckMail); To: "Uupoly-l@uupa.org" From: Julie Scher Nebel Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: ZuckMail [version 1.00] X-Facebook-Notify: general_invite; mailid=9d23d2G61722844G0G8 Errors-To: invite+2jj0oy=9@facebookmail.com X-FACEBOOK-PRIORITY: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset = "UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Check out my photos on Facebook X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: Julie Scher Nebel , uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 04:11:28 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:10:12 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 04:11:28 -0000 Hi uupoly-l@uupa.org, I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile. Thanks, Julie To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below: http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=3D736180814&k=3DSXC6PWRSQY5M5DGDYE56WP&r uupoly-l@uupa.org was invited to join Facebook by Julie Scher Nebel. If you do not wish to receive this type of email from Facebook in the future, please click on the link below to unsubscribe. http://www.facebook.com/o.php?k=3D73e046&u=3D1634871364&mid=3D9d23d2G61722844G0G8 Facebook's offices are located at 1601 S. California Ave., Palo Alto, CA 94304. From truckee@ltol.com Sun Jun 14 10:43:34 2009 Received: from mail.ltol.com (mail.ltol.com [66.81.108.44]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n5EEgKqd001840 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:43:31 -0400 Received: (qmail 14999 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2009 14:42:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.ltol.com) (truckee@ltol.com@127.0.0.1) by mail.ltol.com with SMTP; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 07:42:19 -0700 Received: from 70.210.209.5 (SquirrelMail authenticated user truckee@ltol.com) by mail.ltol.com with HTTP; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 07:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20090612205624.028c3a78@valeriewhite.org> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20090612205624.028c3a78@valeriewhite.org> From: truckee@ltol.com To: uupoly-l@uupa.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-MagicMail-UUID: 900157b0-58f1-11de-a406-0015c5eec3ff Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] even more good news X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:43:34 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 07:42:19 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:43:34 -0000 Checking my mail early sunday morning i read this letter.... I can not express how happy It made me to hear of acceptance with love for you and your family... Mark Brown Truckee, CA > Tonight was the annual congregational meeting and potluck, the end of > my five years as president. It also happened to be my birthday--64th. > > At the potluck, they surprised me with a song to the tune of the > Beattle's "Will you still need me, will you still feed me . . ." The > song mentioned my presidency and my horseback riding and canoeing . . . > > and at one point it said, "Ken and Judy by your side". > > I am so very blessed in this congregation. > > Valerie > > > PS I also got a framed certificate and a silver chalice pendant with > the flame a musical note . . . perfect for me. > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From freexenon@gmail.com Wed Jun 24 13:00:42 2009 Received: from mail-yx0-f199.google.com (mail-yx0-f199.google.com [209.85.210.199]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5OH0PZf032586 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:00:25 -0400 Received: by yxe37 with SMTP id 37so1444696yxe.10 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:00:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: freexenon@gmail.com Received: by 10.90.56.16 with SMTP id e16mr1215655aga.57.1245862824151; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:00:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Poly Friend X-Google-Sender-Auth: 41f8a4ecaf65eb73 Message-ID: To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Definition: "starvation model of love"? X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:00:42 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:00:04 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:00:42 -0000 Google and Wikipedia do not seem to have a definitive definition of the "starvation model of love" that some polys seem to use when talking about polyamory. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="starvation+model+of+love"&aq=f&oq=&aqi= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=starvation+model+of+love&go=GoI find this interesting, especially since only the poly pages mention this topic. Does anyone have a more definitive source and definition of "starvation model of love" that can be quoted or used. Discussion and well thought out explanations on this topic are welcome too. Thanks! From anthony.roza@gmail.com Wed Jun 24 18:10:03 2009 Received: from mail-bw0-f222.google.com (mail-bw0-f222.google.com [209.85.218.222]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5OMA0up023165 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:10:00 -0400 Received: by bwz22 with SMTP id 22so179469bwz.26 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:09:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.57.81 with SMTP id b17mr1698923bkh.212.1245881397983; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:09:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5aaa462a0906241509ybea3f0fpc6f71d3b23a6d18d@mail.gmail.com> From: Roza Anthony To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Definition: "starvation model of love"? X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:10:04 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:09:57 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:10:04 -0000 As I understand it, the starvation model of love states that there is not a limited amount of love that people have to give, and thus they must hoard it to ward against starvation, but that there is lots and lots of it, and it can be shared and passed around without needing to be renewed. Assuming I have that part of it right, it makes a lot of sense to me. Why this emotion need to be hoarded or saved for some future point? If love is an option here and now, and with it the potential for increased general happiness and contentment, then use it. If it did get saved for future use, who know when that time would come? Nope, this isn't good enough, that isn't just right, this isn't perfect, and suddenly it's too late and the love was never used. Whereas if the love was felt and shared along the way, there are probably dozens of wonderful moments and times of our lives which were enriched for it, and remembered fondly. I guess it's kind of along the same lines as 'seize the opportunity.' Yes, there may be other opportunities that come, but you can't predict them, so why not enjoy this one? I realize this may not be useful to some people demending on personal experience and the audience, but I like the idea of favorite children. How can a parent choose the FAVORITE child? All children in a family should be loved equally, if differently, and appreciated for their value and worth. Similarly, why should we have to choose a FAVORITE lover or loved one? If there is enough love to go around, as the starvation model says there is, then we are able to enjoy many people with all their wonders and quirks, and not have to restrict ourselves to just one. Roza -- Disclaimer: No trees were harmed in the sending of this message; however, a significant number of electrons were slightly inconvenienced. From licorice.gumdrop@gmail.com Wed Jun 24 18:27:14 2009 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com (mail-qy0-f189.google.com [209.85.221.189]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5OMRC7s024884 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:27:12 -0400 Received: by qyk27 with SMTP id 27so1553859qyk.10 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.28.81 with SMTP id l17mr1509103qac.301.1245882431718; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?10.253.210.182? (mobile-166-137-133-177.mycingular.net [166.137.133.177]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4sm3245587qwe.8.2009.06.24.15.27.10 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:27:11 -0700 (PDT) References: <5aaa462a0906241509ybea3f0fpc6f71d3b23a6d18d@mail.gmail.com> Message-Id: <70D9DB22-7785-4426-B2BD-A7EB07383B90@gmail.com> From: licorice gumdrop To: "uupoly-l@uupa.org" In-Reply-To: <5aaa462a0906241509ybea3f0fpc6f71d3b23a6d18d@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (7A341) Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 7A341) Cc: "uupoly-l@uupa.org" Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Definition: "starvation model of love"? X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:27:15 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:26:56 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:27:15 -0000 my understanding - and I could easily be wrong - is not that a starvation economy of love requires hoarding for a future time, but rather that it's a zero-sum game: if you give love to one person, someone else goes hungry. I agree with you about love being a bottomless resource, though, that should be shared as much as possible. - jenny ### sent from a mobile device - please forgive any thumb-related spelling errors. On Jun 24, 2009, at 6:09 PM, Roza Anthony wrote: > As I understand it, the starvation model of love states that there > is not a > limited amount of love that people have to give, and thus they must > hoard it > to ward against starvation, but that there is lots and lots of it, > and it > can be shared and passed around without needing to be renewed. > Assuming I > have that part of it right, it makes a lot of sense to me. Why this > emotion > need to be hoarded or saved for some future point? If love is an > option > here and now, and with it the potential for increased general > happiness and > contentment, then use it. If it did get saved for future use, who > know when > that time would come? Nope, this isn't good enough, that isn't just > right, > this isn't perfect, and suddenly it's too late and the love was > never used. > Whereas if the love was felt and shared along the way, there are > probably > dozens of wonderful moments and times of our lives which were > enriched for > it, and remembered fondly. I guess it's kind of along the same > lines as > 'seize the opportunity.' Yes, there may be other opportunities that > come, > but you can't predict them, so why not enjoy this one? I realize > this may > not be useful to some people demending on personal experience and the > audience, but I like the idea of favorite children. How can a > parent choose > the FAVORITE child? All children in a family should be loved > equally, if > differently, and appreciated for their value and worth. Similarly, > why > should we have to choose a FAVORITE lover or loved one? If there is > enough > love to go around, as the starvation model says there is, then we > are able > to enjoy many people with all their wonders and quirks, and not have > to > restrict ourselves to just one. > Roza > -- > Disclaimer: No trees were harmed in the sending of this message; > however, a > significant number of electrons were slightly inconvenienced. > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about > yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From freexenon@gmail.com Thu Jun 25 11:54:07 2009 Received: from mail-gx0-f208.google.com (mail-gx0-f208.google.com [209.85.217.208]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5PFs3eU024170 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:54:04 -0400 Received: by gxk4 with SMTP id 4so2588805gxk.2 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:54:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: freexenon@gmail.com Received: by 10.90.26.3 with SMTP id 3mr2224565agz.27.1245945243185; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:54:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <70D9DB22-7785-4426-B2BD-A7EB07383B90@gmail.com> References: <5aaa462a0906241509ybea3f0fpc6f71d3b23a6d18d@mail.gmail.com> <70D9DB22-7785-4426-B2BD-A7EB07383B90@gmail.com> From: Poly Friend X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2a122d280b7f3cce Message-ID: To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Definition: "starvation model of love"? X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:54:08 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:53:43 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:54:08 -0000 Thank you both, Is there anyone else who would like to weigh in and give their point of view. The more explanations, views, or resources about this topic the better. Thanks again From mlle.mimi@gmail.com Thu Jun 25 12:04:51 2009 Received: from mail-ew0-f222.google.com (mail-ew0-f222.google.com [209.85.219.222]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5PG4lXs026364 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:04:47 -0400 Received: by ewy22 with SMTP id 22so2023803ewy.26 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:04:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.20.210 with SMTP id p60mr827827wep.172.1245945881553; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:04:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5aaa462a0906241509ybea3f0fpc6f71d3b23a6d18d@mail.gmail.com> <70D9DB22-7785-4426-B2BD-A7EB07383B90@gmail.com> Message-ID: From: Mimi To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Definition: "starvation model of love"? X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:04:51 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:04:41 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:04:51 -0000 I think this corresponds to what I've seen called the "scarcity model," and it applies to love, money, or anything else. The opposite would be the abundance model. As licorice gumdrop says, it is a zero-sum game. On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Poly Friend wrote: > Thank you both, > Is there anyone else who would like to weigh in and give their point of > view. The more explanations, views, or resources about this topic the > better. > > Thanks again > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From mnstrm@erosong.net Thu Jun 25 23:05:02 2009 Received: from mail-yx0-f199.google.com (mail-yx0-f199.google.com [209.85.210.199]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5Q351A0015958 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 23:05:01 -0400 Received: by yxe37 with SMTP id 37so3683618yxe.10 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:04:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.69.3 with SMTP id w3mr5909164ybk.10.1245985499632; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:04:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Moonstorm Erosong To: Uupoly-L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [UUPoly-L] UUPA Membership Meeting Final Full Announcement X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 03:05:02 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:04:59 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 03:05:02 -0000 For those of you who are active UUPA members, are in Salt Lake City, and are planning to attend the UUPA Membership Meeting, here's the final full announcement. The meeting will be held from 11:00 AM till 12:30 PM MDT on Sunday, July 28, 2009. The location is the Shilo Inn, 206 S West Temple, Salt Lake City, UT, Snowbird conference room, fifth floor. If it's at all possible for you to make it, please do. We'd really like to have a quorum, which is ten active members. Similarly, if you met the deadline and have signed up to attend the meeting by conference call, please do join us. Blessings, 'Storm From alanmacrobert@gmail.com Fri Jun 26 13:51:24 2009 Received: from mail-ew0-f222.google.com (mail-ew0-f222.google.com [209.85.219.222]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5QHpJoq013199 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:51:19 -0400 Received: by ewy22 with SMTP id 22so3112507ewy.26 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:51:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: alanmacrobert@gmail.com Received: by 10.210.28.4 with SMTP id b4mr94907ebb.90.1246038677092; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:51:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 37d6364e9a426f86 Message-ID: From: alan7388 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id n5QHpJoq013199 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 15 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:51:24 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:51:17 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:51:24 -0000 Hi Storm-- Is the phone conferencing for the meeting still on? I hope to call in though I may be on the road at the time. Alan M. alan7388 at gmail dot com > Subject:[UUPoly-L] UUPA Membership Meeting Final Full Announcement > For those of you who are active UUPA members, are in Salt Lake City, > and are planning to attend the UUPA Membership Meeting, here's the > final full announcement. > > The meeting will be held from 11:00 AM till 12:30 PM MDT on Sunday, > July 28, 2009. > From mnstrm@erosong.net Sat Jun 27 12:17:14 2009 Received: from mail-yx0-f199.google.com (mail-yx0-f199.google.com [209.85.210.199]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5RGHBEc003740 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 2009 12:17:11 -0400 Received: by yxe37 with SMTP id 37so5648488yxe.10 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 2009 09:17:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.204.16 with SMTP id b16mr19938ybg.23.1246119430199; Sat, 27 Jun 2009 09:17:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Moonstorm Erosong To: Uupoly-L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [UUPoly-L] Hello from General Assembly X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:17:14 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 09:17:10 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:17:14 -0000 So here we are in Salt Lake City at the Unitarian Universalist Association General Assembly, where a few thousand UUs from all over the world spend 4+ days steeping themselves in the business and philosophical life of the denomination. There is an extensive schedule of workshops, lectures, worship services, award ceremonies, and parties. Speakers this year include David Korten, Rianne Eisler, and Melissa Harris-Lacewell, and subject cover everything from congregational management to LGBTQIA issues to economic and racial justice, to ecology--but nothing this year on polyamory. There's a handful of UUPA members and trustees here for GA, and we have--as we have had for several years now--a display booth in the exhibit hall right next to Interweave, UUs for Justice in the Middle East, and the Religious Institute on Sexual Morality, Justice, and Healing. I think that maintaining a visible presence at GA is one of the most important things that UUPA does these days, and certainly one of the most fun. I've spent most of the last 4 days sitting in the UUPA booth chatting with passersby, and being impressed with the number of people who do stop to chat with us. I've also been impressed this year with how little negative reaction we're getting. People talk about being poly themselves, or knowing poly people in their congregations, and in a few cases about having a minister or Director of Religious Education who is openly poly. There are still a significant number of people who have no clue what polyamory is, but after a quick explanation most of them say something like, "I can't imagine doing something like that, but I'm glad you were here to educate me about it." I asked one lady if she'd heard of polyamory, and she said, "Oh, yes, I know about it--I'm a minister." Another minister talked to me for a fairly long time, asking questions about how to perform joining ceremonies for multipartner families, and what polys think about the idea of getting married. My sense from being here over the past few years is that awareness of polyamory is indeed spreading within the UUA, and I'm proud to have been part of that process. I heartily recommend all UU polys to avail themselves of the experience of GA when they get a chance. Come sit in the UUPA booth and chat with other UUs about your experience of being poly and UU. Become part of this very gratifying process. Today is the next to the last day of GA. I'll be in the booth again this afternoon, and then tomorrow morning is our UUPA annual membership meeting. I'm really hoping there are enough members here and by conference call to give us a quorum. Blessings, 'Storm Harlan White, UUPA President. From union-consult@charter.net Sat Jun 27 15:39:50 2009 Received: from que31.charter.net (que31.charter.net [209.225.8.23]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5RJccpp015951 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:39:48 -0400 Received: from imp10 ([10.20.200.10]) by mta11.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.01.00 201-2219-108-20080618) with ESMTP id <20090627193318.IEVS22327.mta11.charter.net@imp10> for ; Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:33:18 -0400 Received: from kelly ([68.187.237.221]) by imp10 with smtp.charter.net id 97ZJ1c00B4nHiR8057ZJm3; Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:33:18 -0400 Message-ID: <0AE0ABDDF9224FE1AB69492A435D41A5@kelly> From: "Union Consult" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 16 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:39:50 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:33:06 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:39:50 -0000 Hi Storm-- Is the phone conferencing for the meeting still on? I hope to call in though I may be on the road at the time. Was this message intended for the list? I think not. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:00 PM Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 16 > Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to > uupoly-l@uupa.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 15 (alan7388) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:51:17 -0400 > From: alan7388 > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 15 > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Storm-- > > Is the phone conferencing for the meeting still on? I hope to call in > though I may be on the road at the time. > > Alan M. > alan7388 at gmail dot com > > >> Subject:?[UUPoly-L] UUPA Membership Meeting Final Full Announcement >> For those of you who are active UUPA members, are in Salt Lake City, >> and are planning to attend the UUPA Membership Meeting, here's the >> final full announcement. >> >> The meeting will be held from 11:00 AM till 12:30 PM MDT on Sunday, >> July 28, 2009. >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 16 > **************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.93/2205 - Release Date: 06/27/09 05:53:00 From kb4wyr@fhrd.net Sun Jun 28 11:31:05 2009 Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n5SFTnWv030754 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:31:04 -0400 Received: (qmail 7200 invoked by uid 1006); 28 Jun 2009 15:29:48 -0000 Received: from kb4wyr@fhrd.net by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.2.5. Clear:SA:0(1.2/100.0):. Processed in 0.709183 secs); 28 Jun 2009 15:29:48 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=100.0 X-Spam-Level: * Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.23) by -v with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 15:29:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 21707 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2009 15:29:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO VerdigrisMobile) (70.41.93.123) by -v with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 15:29:45 -0000 From: "Christine Heinsohn" To: Message-ID: <005901c9f805$3d8ebf60$b8ac3e20$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 thread-index: Acn4BTfU5QCCFV+PTOWTyhkpVJwEIA== Content-Language: en-us Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Acknowledgement of Multipartnering in UU World X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:31:07 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:29:25 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:31:07 -0000 This article in the current UU World pleases me. http://www.uuworld.org/life/articles/141815.shtml It is about the state Unitarian Universalism of Africa. And it acknowledges the practice of having multiple wives works in these communities. It would have be so easy to edit out these references to multiple wives and the trust the congregants have in multiple partnering, but the editors did not do that. I am proud of the work UUPA has done over the last 10 years to increase awareness. I see this article as an example that that work has be fruitful. A small harvest, yet a harvest. Christine Heinsohn From kb4wyr@fhrd.net Sun Jun 28 11:45:15 2009 Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n5SFi15t032319 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:45:11 -0400 Received: (qmail 21786 invoked by uid 1006); 28 Jun 2009 15:44:00 -0000 Received: from kb4wyr@fhrd.net by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.2.5. Clear:SA:0(0.1/100.0):. Processed in 0.391708 secs); 28 Jun 2009 15:44:00 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=100.0 X-Spam-Level: Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.7) by -v with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 15:44:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 10550 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2009 15:43:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO VerdigrisMobile) (70.41.93.123) by -v with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 15:43:58 -0000 From: "Christine Heinsohn" To: , , , , , Message-ID: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 thread-index: Acn4By4VdpCsUum1TUaz/v50XUM+/A== Content-Language: en-us Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:45:15 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:43:27 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:45:15 -0000 We have twenty three acres in the center of the flint hills of Kansas. It's pretty here. But there is also space for folks to pitch tents and set up lots of antennas and generators..listening to David play with field day on his rigs in the basement this weekend has been fun. I have attempted to work 80 meters psk from my kitchen shack, but have not had much luck, yet the attempt has been fun. So here's my question, are there poly hams who would be interesting in coming to our place in Kansas for a multi operator station for the ARRL Field Day next year? If so, let me know. Camping with your own equipment would be the accommodations. Shared use of indoor plumbing would be available. Christine Heinsohn From bisexskr@gmail.com Sun Jun 28 11:49:09 2009 Received: from mail-gx0-f208.google.com (mail-gx0-f208.google.com [209.85.217.208]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5SFn9VP000842 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:49:09 -0400 Received: by gxk4 with SMTP id 4so5627202gxk.2 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 08:49:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.17.9 with SMTP id q9mr104309iba.23.1246204147539; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 08:49:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> Message-ID: <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> From: Craig Alan To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:49:10 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:49:07 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:49:10 -0000 If there is a good response, it might be worth moving back to KS. On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Christine Heinsohn wrote: > We have twenty three acres in the center of the flint hills of Kansas. > It's > pretty here. But there is also space for folks to pitch tents and set up > lots of antennas and generators..listening to David play with field day on > his rigs in the basement this weekend has been fun. I have attempted to > work 80 meters psk from my kitchen shack, but have not had much luck, yet > the attempt has been fun. So here's my question, are there poly hams who > would be interesting in coming to our place in Kansas for a multi operator > station for the ARRL Field Day next year? > > > > If so, let me know. > > > > Camping with your own equipment would be the accommodations. Shared use > of > indoor plumbing would be available. > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From kb4wyr@fhrd.net Sun Jun 28 12:00:06 2009 Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n5SFwsGQ002090 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:00:04 -0400 Received: (qmail 18413 invoked by uid 1006); 28 Jun 2009 15:58:53 -0000 Received: from kb4wyr@fhrd.net by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.2.5. Clear:SA:0(1.2/100.0):. Processed in 0.143521 secs); 28 Jun 2009 15:58:53 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=100.0 X-Spam-Level: * Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.2) by -v with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 15:58:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 10087 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2009 15:58:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO VerdigrisMobile) (70.41.93.123) by -v with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 15:58:50 -0000 From: "Christine Heinsohn" To: References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 thread-index: Acn4CBHeWzFODa81QBixPgXSC/iFCgAAOLUQ Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:00:07 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:58:34 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:00:07 -0000 Christine No need to move, you can come visit! Kansas is a good place to live. We have surprising number of poly folk around. Yeah, most are quietly poly. But overall, Kansas is filled with good people. Christine. -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of Craig Alan Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:49 AM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... If there is a good response, it might be worth moving back to KS. On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Christine Heinsohn wrote: > We have twenty three acres in the center of the flint hills of Kansas. > It's > pretty here. But there is also space for folks to pitch tents and set up > lots of antennas and generators..listening to David play with field day on > his rigs in the basement this weekend has been fun. I have attempted to > work 80 meters psk from my kitchen shack, but have not had much luck, yet > the attempt has been fun. So here's my question, are there poly hams who > would be interesting in coming to our place in Kansas for a multi operator > station for the ARRL Field Day next year? > > > > If so, let me know. > > > > Camping with your own equipment would be the accommodations. Shared use > of > indoor plumbing would be available. > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From bisexskr@gmail.com Sun Jun 28 12:08:26 2009 Received: from mail-yx0-f199.google.com (mail-yx0-f199.google.com [209.85.210.199]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5SG8Ncc004735 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:08:23 -0400 Received: by yxe37 with SMTP id 37so6571488yxe.10 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:08:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.17.9 with SMTP id q9mr106487iba.23.1246205300067; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:08:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> Message-ID: <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> From: Craig Alan To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:08:26 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:08:20 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:08:26 -0000 Just moved to GA from NW KS. Sometimes it's easier to be poly when your on the farm. :) On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Christine Heinsohn wrote: > Christine > > No need to move, you can come visit! Kansas is a good place to live. We > have surprising number of poly folk around. Yeah, most are quietly poly. > But overall, Kansas is filled with good people. > > Christine. > > -----Original Message----- > From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org > [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr =fhrd.net@ > uupa.org] On Behalf Of Craig Alan > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:49 AM > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... > > If there is a good response, it might be worth moving back to KS. > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Christine Heinsohn >wrote: > > > We have twenty three acres in the center of the flint hills of Kansas. > > It's > > pretty here. But there is also space for folks to pitch tents and set up > > lots of antennas and generators..listening to David play with field day > on > > his rigs in the basement this weekend has been fun. I have attempted to > > work 80 meters psk from my kitchen shack, but have not had much luck, yet > > the attempt has been fun. So here's my question, are there poly hams who > > would be interesting in coming to our place in Kansas for a multi > operator > > station for the ARRL Field Day next year? > > > > > > > > If so, let me know. > > > > > > > > Camping with your own equipment would be the accommodations. Shared use > > of > > indoor plumbing would be available. > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From kb4wyr@fhrd.net Sun Jun 28 12:25:09 2009 Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n5SGNsEl006533 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:25:04 -0400 Received: (qmail 1991 invoked by uid 1006); 28 Jun 2009 16:23:54 -0000 Received: from kb4wyr@fhrd.net by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.2.5. Clear:SA:0(1.2/100.0):. Processed in 0.207884 secs); 28 Jun 2009 16:23:54 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=100.0 X-Spam-Level: * Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.17) by -v with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 16:23:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 3734 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2009 16:23:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO VerdigrisMobile) (70.41.93.123) by -v with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 16:23:51 -0000 From: "Christine Heinsohn" To: References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008b01c9f80c$ccdaff10$6690fd30$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 thread-index: Acn4CsSwf4F2q5Q8QQKVHWaN3ygpxQAAcQjg Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:25:09 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:23:36 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:25:09 -0000 Which part of northwest Kansas? If you say Sherman County, we might have common contacts. I spent my high school years the long time ago. What prompted you to migrate to GA? -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of Craig Alan Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:08 AM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... Just moved to GA from NW KS. Sometimes it's easier to be poly when your on the farm. :) On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Christine Heinsohn wrote: > Christine > > No need to move, you can come visit! Kansas is a good place to live. We > have surprising number of poly folk around. Yeah, most are quietly poly. > But overall, Kansas is filled with good people. > > Christine. > > -----Original Message----- > From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org > [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr =fhrd.net@ > uupa.org] On Behalf Of Craig Alan > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:49 AM > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... > > If there is a good response, it might be worth moving back to KS. > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Christine Heinsohn >wrote: > > > We have twenty three acres in the center of the flint hills of Kansas. > > It's > > pretty here. But there is also space for folks to pitch tents and set up > > lots of antennas and generators..listening to David play with field day > on > > his rigs in the basement this weekend has been fun. I have attempted to > > work 80 meters psk from my kitchen shack, but have not had much luck, yet > > the attempt has been fun. So here's my question, are there poly hams who > > would be interesting in coming to our place in Kansas for a multi > operator > > station for the ARRL Field Day next year? > > > > > > > > If so, let me know. > > > > > > > > Camping with your own equipment would be the accommodations. Shared use > > of > > indoor plumbing would be available. > > > > > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From mnstrm@erosong.net Sun Jun 28 12:49:07 2009 Received: from mail-yx0-f199.google.com (mail-yx0-f199.google.com [209.85.210.199]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5SGn2Qf008606 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:49:03 -0400 Received: by yxe37 with SMTP id 37so6602247yxe.10 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:49:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.101.20 with SMTP id d20mr2067907ybm.8.1246207741006; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:49:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0AE0ABDDF9224FE1AB69492A435D41A5@kelly> References: <0AE0ABDDF9224FE1AB69492A435D41A5@kelly> Message-ID: From: Moonstorm Erosong To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 16 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:49:08 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:49:00 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:49:08 -0000 Yes, Alan, the conference call is still on. Sorry about the late response. On 6/27/09, Union Consult wrote: > Hi Storm-- > > Is the phone conferencing for the meeting still on? I hope to call in > though I may be on the road at the time. > > > Was this message intended for the list? I think not. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:00 PM > Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 16 > > >> Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to >> uupoly-l@uupa.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> uupoly-l-request@uupa.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 15 (alan7388) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:51:17 -0400 >> From: alan7388 >> Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 15 >> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Hi Storm-- >> >> Is the phone conferencing for the meeting still on? I hope to call in >> though I may be on the road at the time. >> >> Alan M. >> alan7388 at gmail dot com >> >> >>> Subject:?[UUPoly-L] UUPA Membership Meeting Final Full Announcement >>> For those of you who are active UUPA members, are in Salt Lake City, >>> and are planning to attend the UUPA Membership Meeting, here's the >>> final full announcement. >>> >>> The meeting will be held from 11:00 AM till 12:30 PM MDT on Sunday, >>> July 28, 2009. >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. >> Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. >> UUPoly-L mailing list >> UUPoly-L@uupa.org >> http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >> >> >> End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 16 >> **************************************** > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.93/2205 - Release Date: 06/27/09 > 05:53:00 > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From polydvh@gmail.com Sun Jun 28 13:07:00 2009 Received: from mail-yx0-f199.google.com (mail-yx0-f199.google.com [209.85.210.199]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5SH6xYC011041 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:06:59 -0400 Received: by yxe37 with SMTP id 37so6615704yxe.10 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:06:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.119.17 with SMTP id r17mr7914576anc.3.1246208817860; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:06:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <008b01c9f80c$ccdaff10$6690fd30$@net> References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> <008b01c9f80c$ccdaff10$6690fd30$@net> Message-ID: From: david vanhorn To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:07:00 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:06:55 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:07:00 -0000 UU-Poly_Hams! There's more than one? :) Sounds cool. KC6ETE here, in Pittsburgh or Dayton depending on how the current job search goes. FWIW, APRS is very good at spotting VHF band openings. -- http://www.libchrist.com/phoenix/healing.html From bisexskr@gmail.com Sun Jun 28 13:32:43 2009 Received: from mail-yx0-f199.google.com (mail-yx0-f199.google.com [209.85.210.199]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5SHWfOi014493 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:32:41 -0400 Received: by yxe37 with SMTP id 37so6634324yxe.10 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:32:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.35.205 with SMTP id q13mr219686ibd.17.1246210359775; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:32:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> <008b01c9f80c$ccdaff10$6690fd30$@net> Message-ID: <60bd0a2c0906281032x4931299bqd1ee0558c8c3dbb2@mail.gmail.com> From: Craig Alan To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:32:44 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:32:39 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:32:44 -0000 KB3FNP here And yeah there are more than one. Apparently at least 3. :) On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:06 PM, david vanhorn wrote: > UU-Poly_Hams! There's more than one? :) > > Sounds cool. KC6ETE here, in Pittsburgh or Dayton depending on how > the current job search goes. FWIW, APRS is very good at spotting > VHF band openings. > > -- > http://www.libchrist.com/phoenix/healing.html > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From polydvh@gmail.com Sun Jun 28 13:38:39 2009 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.242]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5SHcbbq015576 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:38:37 -0400 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c37so1404621anc.2 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:37:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.195.15 with SMTP id s15mr7675199anf.18.1246210651512; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:37:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <60bd0a2c0906281032x4931299bqd1ee0558c8c3dbb2@mail.gmail.com> References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> <008b01c9f80c$ccdaff10$6690fd30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906281032x4931299bqd1ee0558c8c3dbb2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: From: david vanhorn To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id n5SHcbbq015576 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:38:39 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:37:30 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:38:39 -0000 On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Craig Alan wrote: > KB3FNP here And yeah there are more than one. Apparently at least 3. :) Wouldn't THAT make a fun QST article.. From kb4wyr@fhrd.net Sun Jun 28 13:53:00 2009 Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n5SHplOH017052 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:52:58 -0400 Received: (qmail 15449 invoked by uid 1006); 28 Jun 2009 17:51:47 -0000 Received: from kb4wyr@fhrd.net by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.2.5. Clear:SA:0(1.2/100.0):. Processed in 0.173364 secs); 28 Jun 2009 17:51:47 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=100.0 X-Spam-Level: * Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.4) by -v with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 17:51:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 15403 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2009 17:51:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO VerdigrisMobile) (70.41.93.123) by -v with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 17:51:45 -0000 From: "Christine Heinsohn" To: References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> <008b01c9f80c$ccdaff10$6690fd30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906281032x4931299bqd1ee0558c8c3dbb2@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <60bd0a2c0906281032x4931299bqd1ee0558c8c3dbb2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <009d01c9f819$142bdea0$3c839be0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 thread-index: Acn4FpbQ8hilU6kaQgGU3lFSkCYuWgAAmiAw Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:53:00 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:51:30 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:53:00 -0000 I know of at least four now. KD0R my life partner is on UUPoly as well. -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of Craig Alan Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 12:33 PM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... KB3FNP here And yeah there are more than one. Apparently at least 3. :) On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:06 PM, david vanhorn wrote: > UU-Poly_Hams! There's more than one? :) > > Sounds cool. KC6ETE here, in Pittsburgh or Dayton depending on how > the current job search goes. FWIW, APRS is very good at spotting > VHF band openings. > > -- > http://www.libchrist.com/phoenix/healing.html > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From kd0r@fhrd.net Sun Jun 28 14:30:17 2009 Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n5SIT1UN019766 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:30:16 -0400 Received: (qmail 25828 invoked by uid 1006); 28 Jun 2009 18:29:01 -0000 Received: from kd0r@fhrd.net by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.2.5. Clear:SA:0(0.1/100.0):. Processed in 0.174322 secs); 28 Jun 2009 18:29:01 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=100.0 X-Spam-Level: Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.23) by -v with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 18:29:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 12061 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2009 18:28:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (kd0r@70.41.93.123) by -v with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 18:28:58 -0000 Message-ID: <4A47B64D.8010109@fhrd.net> From: David Heinsohn User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> <008b01c9f80c$ccdaff10$6690fd30$@net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:30:18 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:28:29 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:30:18 -0000 David I'm the David of Chris' post. And I like aprs as well, but for monitoring conditions I like propnet.org. Now back to poly, the UUA and . . . There are many hams among us! But like poly's they can be very quiet and in the closet. Though I'd guess that it's easier to find hams among the polys than to go looking for polys among the hams. I can count six hams in KanPoly without even reaching very far. I'm sure there are more. Not sure I want to start a poly net via radio though. :-) So next Field Day, here as k0ply? And of course we'd have to run 3A so that it'd be a Poly station, (i.e. more than two tranmitters!) OK, enough silliness for one afternoon. David aka KD0R david vanhorn wrote: > UU-Poly_Hams! There's more than one? :) > > Sounds cool. KC6ETE here, in Pittsburgh or Dayton depending on how > the current job search goes. FWIW, APRS is very good at spotting > VHF band openings. > > From kd0r@fhrd.net Sun Jun 28 14:44:27 2009 Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n5SIhEJM021200 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:44:24 -0400 Received: (qmail 29310 invoked by uid 1006); 28 Jun 2009 18:43:13 -0000 Received: from kd0r@fhrd.net by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.2.5. Clear:SA:0(0.1/100.0):. Processed in 0.168578 secs); 28 Jun 2009 18:43:13 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=100.0 X-Spam-Level: Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.18) by -v with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 18:43:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 7023 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2009 18:43:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (kd0r@70.41.93.123) by -v with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 18:43:11 -0000 Message-ID: <4A47B99D.9050007@fhrd.net> From: David Heinsohn User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KanPoly@yahoogroups.com References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> In-Reply-To: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: wnypoly@yahoogroups.com, mwpoly@yahoogroups.com, harp@yahoogroups.com, OKPoly@yahoogroups.com, uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] [KanPoly] I know I am strange, but... X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:44:28 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:42:37 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:44:28 -0000 Hi All Lest any of you think that Chris is being silly in suggesting that there are enough hams among the poly lists she sent this to, to make up a fun weekend station, I know of over a dozen. Now many of those are on lists that are not close to Ks, but still. Besides it'd just be a good focus and excuse to have a weekend camping event. I'd say we need to plan on operating 3A, thus a poly station! (i.e. more than two!) 73 de KD0R David Christine Heinsohn wrote: > We have twenty three acres in the center of the flint hills of Kansas. It's > pretty here. But there is also space for folks to pitch tents and set up > lots of antennas and generators..listening to David play with field day on > his rigs in the basement this weekend has been fun. I have attempted to > work 80 meters psk from my kitchen shack, but have not had much luck, yet > the attempt has been fun. So here's my question, are there poly hams who > would be interesting in coming to our place in Kansas for a multi operator > station for the ARRL Field Day next year? > > > > If so, let me know. > > > > Camping with your own equipment would be the accommodations. Shared use of > indoor plumbing would be available. > > > > Christine Heinsohn > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > This message is from KanPoly To unsubscribe from this list send email to KanPoly-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > To switch to digest/web mode go to the Yahoo Groups web site, at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KanPolyYahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KanPoly/ > > <*> Your email settings: > Individual Email | Traditional > > <*> To change settings online go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KanPoly/join > (Yahoo! ID required) > > <*> To change settings via email: > mailto:KanPoly-digest@yahoogroups.com > mailto:KanPoly-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > KanPoly-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From bisexskr@gmail.com Sun Jun 28 14:47:09 2009 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.250]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5SIkMrr021698 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:46:22 -0400 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c37so1416536anc.2 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:45:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.36.68 with SMTP id s4mr206789ibd.47.1246214722304; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:45:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> <008b01c9f80c$ccdaff10$6690fd30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906281032x4931299bqd1ee0558c8c3dbb2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <60bd0a2c0906281145t7dff7c4bs7af56067ee740d01@mail.gmail.com> From: Craig Alan To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:47:16 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:45:22 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:47:16 -0000 I remember an article a few years back somewhere about gay hams. So why not one about poly? Not that I'm going to write it or anything. As the Hams among Poly, I've always found a fair number of open minded "geeks" Just hang around the SciFi conventions. Speaking of which we could do a get together at DragonCon or something like that. On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:37 PM, david vanhorn wrote: > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Craig Alan wrote: > > KB3FNP here And yeah there are more than one. Apparently at least 3. :) > > > Wouldn't THAT make a fun QST article.. > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From ystradyfodwg@yahoo.com Sun Jun 28 19:35:18 2009 Received: from web54401.mail.yahoo.com (web54401.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.131]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n5SNXsvB008597 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:35:04 -0400 Received: (qmail 9804 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jun 2009 23:33:54 -0000 Message-ID: <183865.5711.qm@web54401.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 7WvOtEsVM1kCEvQDG927CiUeZ86YXJsX1W2LdCIdXQL2M.wcankOSono6Bnyo91IO8g3zV7yIMQQPdRElwAZvabKj6o70_wGd2_oBJc5CknUztRRnp34DdW7Fzdqtx6PJn3ZbQfZ0bTSrgtjFmExCIa76ugKhaeYOIV8MkY7wJJ9_jKbE5pyxbVt8igFxX1FLGOrN.UETek9AD_wIAb3v7d97yyfAyN0pxZrIF2433hceWPPMnA8d3c1ypiMTelGdfRdVDRGoQmAr0MBpcqwTLpdu4KRkDvlMmCl8yZxHYZxXu_o6WpVje_F_nZiwKnbB1pT8FiwNfewV84Kiebl3w-- Received: from [65.7.187.107] by web54401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:33:54 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1357.22 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 References: From: Mr Y To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Hello from General Assembly X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:35:19 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:33:54 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:35:19 -0000 Storm, Sorry I couldn't make it this year - I did enjoy meeting you and I did enjoy manning the booth last year... Thanx for the update and do hang in there... Ystradyfodwg aka MrY Dubitando ad veritatem venimus [Through scepticism comes truth] ________________________________ From: Moonstorm Erosong To: Uupoly-L Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:17:10 PM Subject: [UUPoly-L] Hello from General Assembly So here we are in Salt Lake City at the Unitarian Universalist Association General Assembly, where a few thousand UUs from all over the world spend 4+ days steeping themselves in the business and philosophical life of the denomination. There is an extensive schedule of workshops, lectures, worship services, award ceremonies, and parties. [SNIP] There's a handful of UUPA members and trustees here for GA {SNIP] My sense from being here over the past few years is that awareness of polyamory is indeed spreading within the UUA, and I'm proud to have been part of that process. I heartily recommend all UU polys to avail themselves of the experience of GA when they get a chance. Come sit in the UUPA booth and chat with other UUs about your experience of being poly and UU. Become part of this very gratifying process. Today is the next to the last day of GA. I'll be in the booth again this afternoon, and then tomorrow morning is our UUPA annual membership meeting. I'm really hoping there are enough members here and by conference call to give us a quorum. Blessings, 'Storm Harlan White, UUPA President. From JasmineGld@aol.com Mon Jun 29 00:11:13 2009 Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5T4BCoh028338 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:11:12 -0400 Received: from imo-da01.mx.aol.com (imo-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.199]) by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-44a483e93385; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:10:05 -0400 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-da01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id g.c29.5c6b3a9e (37032) for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-mc01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-mc01.mx.aol.com [64.12.95.97]) by cia-db02.mx.aol.com (v124.15) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB022-d3ce4a483e8d3c; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:09:51 -0400 Received: from webmail-da12 (webmail-da12.webmail.aol.com [205.188.212.207]) by smtprly-mc01.mx.aol.com (v124.15) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMC018-d3ce4a483e8d3c; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:09:49 -0400 References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> <008b01c9f80c$ccdaff10$6690fd30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906281032x4931299bqd1ee0558c8c3dbb2@mail.gmail.com> <009d01c9f819$142bdea0$3c839be0$@net> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-AOL-IP: 205.188.169.199 In-Reply-To: <009d01c9f819$142bdea0$3c839be0$@net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: jasminegld@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 43524-STANDARD Received: from 65.107.61.179 by webmail-da12.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.207) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:09:49 -0400 Message-Id: <8CBC686942B201A-134C-22F8@webmail-da12.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:11:13 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:09:49 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:11:13 -0000 It looks like I'll be passing through Kansas City Wednesday evening on my way home from General Assembly. Anyone want to meet me for dinner and conversation?? I'm looking forward to reading that UU world article on African familes. I haven't had time yet.? Jasmine?? From polydvh@gmail.com Mon Jun 29 00:21:58 2009 Received: from mail-yx0-f199.google.com (mail-yx0-f199.google.com [209.85.210.199]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5T4Lsud029637 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:21:54 -0400 Received: by yxe37 with SMTP id 37so7118827yxe.10 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:21:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.69.6 with SMTP id w6mr8696802ank.6.1246249312044; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:21:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <60bd0a2c0906281145t7dff7c4bs7af56067ee740d01@mail.gmail.com> References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> <008b01c9f80c$ccdaff10$6690fd30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906281032x4931299bqd1ee0558c8c3dbb2@mail.gmail.com> <60bd0a2c0906281145t7dff7c4bs7af56067ee740d01@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: From: david vanhorn To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id n5T4Lsud029637 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:21:58 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:21:51 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:21:58 -0000 On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Craig Alan wrote: > I remember an article a few years back somewhere about gay hams. So why not > one about poly? Not that I'm going to write it or anything. Ya know.. People would love it or hate it, but I bet it would sell magazines. I don't know what my status will be by then, I'm looking for work at the moment, but I definitely like the idea. Maybe we can get a sponsorship from PolyPhaser. (ok, SOMEBODY had to say it...) My experience with coming out as poly to various people, even at work, is that the vast majority of people are tolerant, and even accepting. I've found very few who had problems with it. When I came out to my boss, it was when he was running for mayor of Pittsburgh, so there was a bit of added risk. He was confused, but I explained, and it's all ok now. We even made it an explicit exception to the companys "moral turpitude" clause. -- http://www.libchrist.com/phoenix/healing.html From kb4wyr@fhrd.net Mon Jun 29 00:42:54 2009 Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n5T4fhur031492 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:42:53 -0400 Received: (qmail 2324 invoked by uid 1006); 29 Jun 2009 04:41:43 -0000 Received: from kb4wyr@fhrd.net by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.2.5. Clear:SA:0(0.1/100.0):. Processed in 0.164685 secs); 29 Jun 2009 04:41:43 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=100.0 X-Spam-Level: Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.4) by -v with SMTP; 29 Jun 2009 04:41:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 25012 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2009 04:41:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO VerdigrisMobile) (70.41.93.123) by -v with SMTP; 29 Jun 2009 04:41:34 -0000 From: "Christine Heinsohn" To: References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> <008b01c9f80c$ccdaff10$6690fd30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906281032x4931299bqd1ee0558c8c3dbb2@mail.gmail.com> <009d01c9f819$142bdea0$3c839be0$@net> <8CBC686942B201A-134C-22F8@webmail-da12.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8CBC686942B201A-134C-22F8@webmail-da12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <011801c9f873$da373b30$8ea5b190$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 thread-index: Acn4b8u92cz6smKVTO2ELDbU/1kwCwAA/kaA Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:42:55 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:41:15 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:42:55 -0000 Jasmine, What time? And would Lawrence be an option? -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of jasminegld@aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:10 PM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City It looks like I'll be passing through Kansas City Wednesday evening on my way home from General Assembly. Anyone want to meet me for dinner and conversation?? I'm looking forward to reading that UU world article on African familes. I haven't had time yet.? Jasmine?? _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From WABaldwin@aol.com Mon Jun 29 01:37:27 2009 Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5T5bQsA003229 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 01:37:26 -0400 Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-44a4852cfe2; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 01:36:25 -0400 Received: from WABaldwin@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id g.d49.4b4679cd (48624) for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 01:36:13 -0400 (EDT) From: WABaldwin@aol.com Message-ID: To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5378 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.136 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Acknowledgement of Multipartnering in UU World X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:37:29 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 01:35:56 EDT X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:37:29 -0000 In a message dated 6/28/2009 8:33:22 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kb4wyr@fhrd.net writes: It is about the state Unitarian Universalism of Africa. And it acknowledges the practice of having multiple wives works in these communities. It would have be so easy to edit out these references to multiple wives and the trust the congregants have in multiple partnering, but the editors did not do that. Interesting, the phraseology. When I first "came out" as poly, in my church, back around 1988 -- I didn't know the word "poly" yet -- so I talked about "multiply-partnered people"! Bill **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) From popefelix@gmail.com Mon Jun 29 07:16:28 2009 Received: from mail-bw0-f222.google.com (mail-bw0-f222.google.com [209.85.218.222]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5TBGRxe023087 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:16:27 -0400 Received: by bwz22 with SMTP id 22so2567405bwz.26 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:16:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.124.147 with SMTP id u19mr4355491far.28.1246274185010; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:16:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <011801c9f873$da373b30$8ea5b190$@net> References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> <008b01c9f80c$ccdaff10$6690fd30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906281032x4931299bqd1ee0558c8c3dbb2@mail.gmail.com> <009d01c9f819$142bdea0$3c839be0$@net> <8CBC686942B201A-134C-22F8@webmail-da12.sysops.aol.com> <011801c9f873$da373b30$8ea5b190$@net> Message-ID: From: Kit Peters To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:16:28 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:16:24 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:16:28 -0000 I can probably meet in KC or Lawrence. KP On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 23:41, Christine Heinsohn wrote: > Jasmine, > > What time? And would Lawrence be an option? > > -----Original Message----- > From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org > [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr =fhrd.net@ > uupa.org] On Behalf Of > jasminegld@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:10 PM > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City > > > It looks like I'll be passing through Kansas City Wednesday evening on my > way home from General Assembly. Anyone want to meet me for dinner and > conversation?? > > I'm looking forward to reading that UU world article on African familes. I > haven't had time yet.? > > Jasmine?? > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > -- GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7 From FlyRod52@aol.com Mon Jun 29 10:16:42 2009 Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5TEGcIQ004438 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:16:38 -0400 Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-44a48cc83383; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:15:31 -0400 Received: from FlyRod52@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id g.cb2.58bfd4ef (14467) for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:15:28 -0400 (EDT) From: FlyRod52@aol.com Message-ID: To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5379 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.138 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:16:42 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:15:28 EDT X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:16:42 -0000 In a message dated 6/28/2009 12:03:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kb4wyr@fhrd.net writes: Christine No need to move, you can come visit! Kansas is a good place to live. We have surprising number of poly folk around. Yeah, most are quietly poly. But overall, Kansas is filled with good people. Hi, Christine. :-) I wish Jasmine and I had known that when we were living in Wichita. But then, we hadn't found UUism yet either. :-} Rodney **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823281x1201398699/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) From JasmineGld@aol.com Mon Jun 29 11:31:56 2009 Received: from imo-m11.mail.aol.com (imo-m11.mx.aol.com [64.12.143.99]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5TFUglZ012290 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:31:53 -0400 Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imo-m11.mail.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN1-24a48ddcbd1; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:29:15 -0400 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id g.c39.588b9111 (34895) for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-db03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-db03.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.154]) by cia-da01.mx.aol.com (v124.15) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA014-5c3f4a48ddc21c1; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:29:11 -0400 Received: from webmail-me08 (webmail-me08.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.200]) by smtprly-db03.mx.aol.com (v124.15) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDB035-5c3f4a48ddc21c1; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:29:06 -0400 References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> <008b01c9f80c$ccdaff10$6690fd30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906281032x4931299bqd1ee0558c8c3dbb2@mail.gmail.com> <009d01c9f819$142bdea0$3c839be0$@net><8CBC686942B201A-134C-22F8@webmail-da12.sysops.aol.com> <011801c9f873$da373b30$8ea5b190$@net> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.136 In-Reply-To: <011801c9f873$da373b30$8ea5b190$@net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: jasminegld@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 43524-STANDARD Received: from 65.107.61.179 by webmail-me08.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.200) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:29:05 -0400 Message-Id: <8CBC6E579275A05-D44-1F23@webmail-me08.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:32:00 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:29:05 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:32:00 -0000 Yes, Lawrence is an option. Are there others interested, maybe from the east side of Kansas City? I'm flexible on location and time, any time after 4pm. If the local folks can compare notes and agree to a place and time, I'll meet you there. Jasmine -----Original Message----- From: Christine Heinsohn Jasmine, What time? And would Lawrence be an option? -----Original Message----- jasminegld@aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:10 PM It looks like I'll be passing through Kansas City Wednesday evening on my way home from General Assembly. Anyone want to meet me for dinner and conversation? I'm looking forward to reading that UU world article on African familes. I haven't had time yet. Jasmine From riversol@yahoo.com Mon Jun 29 13:12:50 2009 Received: from smtp107.prem.mail.ac4.yahoo.com (smtp107.prem.mail.ac4.yahoo.com [76.13.13.46]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n5THBbq9021121 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:12:48 -0400 Received: (qmail 58553 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2009 17:11:37 -0000 Received: from pool-96-245-42-194.phlapa.fios.verizon.net (riversol@96.245.42.194 with login) by smtp107.prem.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jun 2009 10:11:37 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: H6tyDMqswBANwXmrLFhff96tYZZQ X-YMail-OSG: 7SpeYbQVM1nNT4JlwZylKNyZRd_GIaHiyXpvCiKt0EVVwNtaEOGPfPAueFUerYyeNb24tgUJ8FOSNgi2hNezlwzbkUsrNMJR3zb5wyq.D.jvV0W5POJrxhA4LnI8esQSCwFjNeUB8YQR2h3HX54ccVwXgygO30erv64MHbk9L7J0Mcbq91LCjDegexsorsDVRGU1aHXWR2qHbnq2Ovewl1Y42.hW3oYArzt8Z.SxQxSvPA2WLBfMWnNYIl0p7qqG53Uo3eED24AHQT54_nKBamMl9yZC.oH.dHxVdP.Uyg1vPsMHri_TAsRj0j_eX93gE0lwaoARjFmekmKx X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Brian" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: Acn41BcJwpFzlCISQAipQDxCP/ZTcQACGuiw In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 090629-0, 06/29/2009), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Subject: [UUPoly-L] Philly/Allentown X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:13:08 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:11:39 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:13:08 -0000 Is there anyone else in the Philly/Allentown area on this group? Looking to connect with other poly uu's nearby...thanks! Brian "bring the good in others to completion" -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+riversol=yahoo.com@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+riversol=yahoo.com@uupa.org] On Behalf Of uupoly-l-request@uupa.org Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:01 PM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 19 Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to uupoly-l@uupa.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to uupoly-l-request@uupa.org You can reach the person managing the list at uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: I know I am strange, but... (Craig Alan) 2. Re: Hello from General Assembly (Mr Y) 3. Kansas City (jasminegld@aol.com) 4. Re: I know I am strange, but... (david vanhorn) 5. Re: Kansas City (Christine Heinsohn) 6. Re: Acknowledgement of Multipartnering in UU World (WABaldwin@aol.com) 7. Re: Kansas City (Kit Peters) 8. Re: I know I am strange, but... (FlyRod52@aol.com) 9. Re: Kansas City (jasminegld@aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:45:22 -0400 From: Craig Alan Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: <60bd0a2c0906281145t7dff7c4bs7af56067ee740d01@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I remember an article a few years back somewhere about gay hams. So why not one about poly? Not that I'm going to write it or anything. As the Hams among Poly, I've always found a fair number of open minded "geeks" Just hang around the SciFi conventions. Speaking of which we could do a get together at DragonCon or something like that. On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:37 PM, david vanhorn wrote: > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Craig Alan wrote: > > KB3FNP here And yeah there are more than one. Apparently at least 3. > > :) > > > Wouldn't THAT make a fun QST article.. > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:33:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Mr Y Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Hello from General Assembly To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: <183865.5711.qm@web54401.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Storm, Sorry I couldn't make it this year - I did enjoy meeting you and I did enjoy manning the booth last year... Thanx for the update and do hang in there... Ystradyfodwg aka MrY Dubitando ad veritatem venimus [Through scepticism comes truth] ________________________________ From: Moonstorm Erosong To: Uupoly-L Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:17:10 PM Subject: [UUPoly-L] Hello from General Assembly So here we are in Salt Lake City at the Unitarian Universalist Association General Assembly, where a few thousand UUs from all over the world spend 4+ days steeping themselves in the business and philosophical life of the denomination. There is an extensive schedule of workshops, lectures, worship services, award ceremonies, and parties. [SNIP] There's a handful of UUPA members and trustees here for GA {SNIP] My sense from being here over the past few years is that awareness of polyamory is indeed spreading within the UUA, and I'm proud to have been part of that process. I heartily recommend all UU polys to avail themselves of the experience of GA when they get a chance. Come sit in the UUPA booth and chat with other UUs about your experience of being poly and UU. Become part of this very gratifying process. Today is the next to the last day of GA. I'll be in the booth again this afternoon, and then tomorrow morning is our UUPA annual membership meeting. I'm really hoping there are enough members here and by conference call to give us a quorum. Blessings, 'Storm Harlan White, UUPA President. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:09:49 -0400 From: jasminegld@aol.com Subject: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: <8CBC686942B201A-134C-22F8@webmail-da12.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It looks like I'll be passing through Kansas City Wednesday evening on my way home from General Assembly. Anyone want to meet me for dinner and conversation?? I'm looking forward to reading that UU world article on African familes. I haven't had time yet.? Jasmine?? ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:21:51 -0400 From: david vanhorn Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Craig Alan wrote: > I remember an article a few years back somewhere about gay hams. So > why not one about poly? ?Not that I'm going to write it or anything. Ya know.. People would love it or hate it, but I bet it would sell magazines. I don't know what my status will be by then, I'm looking for work at the moment, but I definitely like the idea. Maybe we can get a sponsorship from PolyPhaser. (ok, SOMEBODY had to say it...) My experience with coming out as poly to various people, even at work, is that the vast majority of people are tolerant, and even accepting. I've found very few who had problems with it. When I came out to my boss, it was when he was running for mayor of Pittsburgh, so there was a bit of added risk. He was confused, but I explained, and it's all ok now. We even made it an explicit exception to the companys "moral turpitude" clause. -- http://www.libchrist.com/phoenix/healing.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:41:15 -0500 From: "Christine Heinsohn" Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City To: Message-ID: <011801c9f873$da373b30$8ea5b190$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Jasmine, What time? And would Lawrence be an option? -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of jasminegld@aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:10 PM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City It looks like I'll be passing through Kansas City Wednesday evening on my way home from General Assembly. Anyone want to meet me for dinner and conversation?? I'm looking forward to reading that UU world article on African familes. I haven't had time yet.? Jasmine?? _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 01:35:56 EDT From: WABaldwin@aol.com Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Acknowledgement of Multipartnering in UU World To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 6/28/2009 8:33:22 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kb4wyr@fhrd.net writes: It is about the state Unitarian Universalism of Africa. And it acknowledges the practice of having multiple wives works in these communities. It would have be so easy to edit out these references to multiple wives and the trust the congregants have in multiple partnering, but the editors did not do that. Interesting, the phraseology. When I first "came out" as poly, in my church, back around 1988 -- I didn't know the word "poly" yet -- so I talked about "multiply-partnered people"! Bill **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:16:24 -0500 From: Kit Peters Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I can probably meet in KC or Lawrence. KP On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 23:41, Christine Heinsohn wrote: > Jasmine, > > What time? And would Lawrence be an option? > > -----Original Message----- > From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org > [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr =fhrd.net@ > uupa.org] On Behalf Of > jasminegld@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:10 PM > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City > > > It looks like I'll be passing through Kansas City Wednesday evening on my > way home from General Assembly. Anyone want to meet me for dinner and > conversation?? > > I'm looking forward to reading that UU world article on African familes. I > haven't had time yet.? > > Jasmine?? > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > -- GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7 ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:15:28 EDT From: FlyRod52@aol.com Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] I know I am strange, but... To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 6/28/2009 12:03:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kb4wyr@fhrd.net writes: Christine No need to move, you can come visit! Kansas is a good place to live. We have surprising number of poly folk around. Yeah, most are quietly poly. But overall, Kansas is filled with good people. Hi, Christine. :-) I wish Jasmine and I had known that when we were living in Wichita. But then, we hadn't found UUism yet either. :-} Rodney **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823281x1201398699/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:29:05 -0400 From: jasminegld@aol.com Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: <8CBC6E579275A05-D44-1F23@webmail-me08.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yes, Lawrence is an option. Are there others interested, maybe from the east side of Kansas City? I'm flexible on location and time, any time after 4pm. If the local folks can compare notes and agree to a place and time, I'll meet you there. Jasmine -----Original Message----- From: Christine Heinsohn Jasmine, What time? And would Lawrence be an option? -----Original Message----- jasminegld@aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:10 PM It looks like I'll be passing through Kansas City Wednesday evening on my way home from General Assembly. Anyone want to meet me for dinner and conversation? I'm looking forward to reading that UU world article on African familes. I haven't had time yet. Jasmine ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 19 **************************************** From kb4wyr@fhrd.net Mon Jun 29 13:49:48 2009 Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n5THmXWf024005 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:49:46 -0400 Received: (qmail 26193 invoked by uid 1006); 29 Jun 2009 17:21:52 -0000 Received: from kb4wyr@fhrd.net by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.2.5. Clear:SA:0(0.1/100.0):. Processed in 0.41648 secs); 29 Jun 2009 17:21:52 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=100.0 X-Spam-Level: Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.6) by -v with SMTP; 29 Jun 2009 17:21:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 1017 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2009 17:21:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO VerdigrisMobile) (70.41.93.123) by -v with SMTP; 29 Jun 2009 17:21:49 -0000 From: "Christine Heinsohn" To: References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> <008b01c9f80c$ccdaff10$6690fd30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906281032x4931299bqd1ee0558c8c3dbb2@mail.gmail.com> <009d01c9f819$142bdea0$3c839be0$@net> <8CBC686942B201A-134C-22F8@webmail-da12.sysops.aol.com> <011801c9f873$da373b30$8ea5b190$@net> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <007001c9f8de$0daf9a10$290ece30$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acn4qyrs7DaRm9E5Sq+WCre//PAKsAAMrZkA Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:50:00 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:21:28 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:50:00 -0000 Kit, Lawrence would be better for David and I due to distance. Shall we try for 6 PM at say Wheatstate Pizza on 23rd? Christine -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of Kit Peters Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:16 AM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City I can probably meet in KC or Lawrence. KP On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 23:41, Christine Heinsohn wrote: > Jasmine, > > What time? And would Lawrence be an option? > > -----Original Message----- > From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org > [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr =fhrd.net@ > uupa.org] On Behalf Of > jasminegld@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:10 PM > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City > > > It looks like I'll be passing through Kansas City Wednesday evening on my > way home from General Assembly. Anyone want to meet me for dinner and > conversation?? > > I'm looking forward to reading that UU world article on African familes. I > haven't had time yet.? > > Jasmine?? > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > -- GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7 _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From honeybeasmama@gmail.com Mon Jun 29 15:16:43 2009 Received: from mail-yx0-f199.google.com (mail-yx0-f199.google.com [209.85.210.199]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5TJGgeM030330 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:16:42 -0400 Received: by yxe37 with SMTP id 37so7915029yxe.10 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:16:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.99.16 with SMTP id b16mr4811602ybm.99.1246303001138; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:16:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <588687890906291216i40d9a7a0yd902ba4531c0832d@mail.gmail.com> From: Jeni To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Philly/Allentown X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:16:44 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:16:41 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:16:44 -0000 On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 1:11 PM, Brian wrote: > Is there anyone else in the Philly/Allentown area on this group? > > Looking to connect with other poly uu's nearby...thanks! > > > Brian About an hour from Allentown, nowhere near Philly. :) Jeni. From freexenon@gmail.com Mon Jun 29 15:49:11 2009 Received: from mail-yx0-f199.google.com (mail-yx0-f199.google.com [209.85.210.199]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5TJn93V000453 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:49:09 -0400 Received: by yxe37 with SMTP id 37so7951585yxe.10 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:49:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: freexenon@gmail.com Received: by 10.90.56.17 with SMTP id e17mr1639240aga.81.1246304947840; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:49:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5aaa462a0906241509ybea3f0fpc6f71d3b23a6d18d@mail.gmail.com> <70D9DB22-7785-4426-B2BD-A7EB07383B90@gmail.com> From: Poly Friend X-Google-Sender-Auth: 73b24d2bda5c3879 Message-ID: To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Definition: "starvation model of love"? X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:49:13 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:48:44 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:49:13 -0000 This topic is cross-posted to 2 other lists. Scarcity and Abundance models.= . hmmmm.... I think looking at it the terms of those words might be more useful.... Thanks... I was writing the following and I did not like it and so I started to look for a more authoritative definition. I could find one so I came to you all. I would appreciate any questions comments and suggestions on this. I can ever scrap it totally. Any thoughts, comments, o= r resources? ****** Starvation Model of Love: The entire conservative and Christian precept of love is based off of the Starvation Model of Love (ie.= . you only have so much love to give). If I love her and her then they both get 50%, so I am not loving either of them =93fully=94, or I love one 70%/3= 0%. It is therefore not possible to love them equally, but differently. This is something that conservative religions love to teach, because it is a convenient tool that greatly assists in controlling the masses through guil= t and penance, especially because it runs counter to our natural evolutionary instincts, and abilities to love. Using this pervasive =93logic=94=85 it mu= st follow that you can only love one person, therefore, if you love your wife you must not love others, surely because you can only love one person. You must not be able to love your children, your parents, your grandparents=85 aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews, and best friends then. Fortunately this is not the case. Then it must class based. You must only be able to love one person in each specific class=85. hmmm=85 that does not seem to be= true either =96 you love both parents, and potentially more than one child. So, that is not correct either. It seems that you can love as many people as yo= u want as long as you are not romantically or intimately involved with them. That is quite the convenient limit. =3D( Unlimited in all areas except roma= nce and intimacy. Humans have an infinite ability to love, but we are not taugh= t how to do that. We are taught that fear and possessiveness is OK. The fact that we do love more than one person proves this that we can=96 parents, children, friends, etc. We are just afraid to love and embrace intimacy wit= h more than one person, because we are taught that it is bad, which really makes no sense. To have more intimacy and romantic love in your life is a wonderful and empowering thing. Love begets more love. It is fear, and lack of communication and openness, that destroys our ability to love. We can love more than one person romantically, but it is difficult to do especiall= y with what we are taught, and our societal and religious teachings, and because we have limited time. Time is what we are limited with, and not love. ****** On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:04, Mimi wrote: > I think this corresponds to what I've seen called the "scarcity model," a= nd > it applies to love, money, or anything else. The opposite would be the > abundance model. As licorice gumdrop says, it is a zero-sum game. From union-consult@charter.net Mon Jun 29 17:34:56 2009 Received: from que11.charter.net (que11.charter.net [209.225.8.21]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5TLXgnc008112 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:34:52 -0400 Received: from imp09 ([10.20.200.9]) by mta11.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.01.00 201-2219-108-20080618) with ESMTP id <20090629212604.VVUX22327.mta11.charter.net@imp09> for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:26:04 -0400 Received: from kelly ([68.187.237.221]) by imp09 with smtp.charter.net id 9xS31c00R4nHiR805xS3DM; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:26:04 -0400 Message-ID: <960827194A7F4785A47F4018E3552A0B@kelly> From: "Union Consult" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: [UUPoly-L] African article and net etiquette X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:34:56 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:25:59 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:34:56 -0000 1. That UU World article about African Unitarianism also pointed out that these people are very opposed to homosexuality and believe in a literal interpretation of the bible. While they may be accepting of and practicing polygymy, I am not sure that I would interpret it as supporting polyamory and would certainly want to know more about the status of these women as multiple wives. 2. Please remember when responding to posts, to snip off most of the trailing message, and after making a one on one contact for the possibility of meeting or whatever, to keep those exchanges off the list. Thanks "Anonymous for now" From popefelix@gmail.com Mon Jun 29 18:03:10 2009 Received: from mail-fx0-f205.google.com (mail-fx0-f205.google.com [209.85.220.205]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n5TM35qa010443 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:03:05 -0400 Received: by fxm1 with SMTP id 1so2919735fxm.26 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:03:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.124.147 with SMTP id u19mr4832751far.28.1246312982341; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:03:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <007001c9f8de$0daf9a10$290ece30$@net> References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> <008b01c9f80c$ccdaff10$6690fd30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906281032x4931299bqd1ee0558c8c3dbb2@mail.gmail.com> <009d01c9f819$142bdea0$3c839be0$@net> <8CBC686942B201A-134C-22F8@webmail-da12.sysops.aol.com> <011801c9f873$da373b30$8ea5b190$@net> <007001c9f8de$0daf9a10$290ece30$@net> Message-ID: From: Kit Peters To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:03:10 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:03:02 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:03:10 -0000 Sure, that will work for me. I'd better clear the money with my wife. :) KP On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:21, Christine Heinsohn wrote: > Kit, Lawrence would be better for David and I due to distance. Shall we > try > for 6 PM at say Wheatstate Pizza on 23rd? > > Christine > > -----Original Message----- > From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org > [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr =fhrd.net@ > uupa.org] On Behalf Of Kit Peters > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:16 AM > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City > > I can probably meet in KC or Lawrence. > > KP > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 23:41, Christine Heinsohn wrote: > > > Jasmine, > > > > What time? And would Lawrence be an option? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org > > [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr = > fhrd.net@ > > uupa.org] On Behalf Of > > jasminegld@aol.com > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:10 PM > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City > > > > > > It looks like I'll be passing through Kansas City Wednesday evening on my > > way home from General Assembly. Anyone want to meet me for dinner and > > conversation?? > > > > I'm looking forward to reading that UU world article on African familes. > I > > haven't had time yet.? > > > > Jasmine?? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > > -- > GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 > 46A7 > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > -- GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7 From kb4wyr@fhrd.net Mon Jun 29 22:46:30 2009 Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n5U2jISs029757 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:46:29 -0400 Received: (qmail 25387 invoked by uid 1006); 30 Jun 2009 02:45:18 -0000 Received: from kb4wyr@fhrd.net by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.2.5. Clear:SA:0(0.1/100.0):. Processed in 0.176017 secs); 30 Jun 2009 02:45:18 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=100.0 X-Spam-Level: Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.17) by -v with SMTP; 30 Jun 2009 02:45:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 10711 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2009 02:45:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO VerdigrisMobile) (70.41.93.123) by -v with SMTP; 30 Jun 2009 02:45:15 -0000 From: "Christine Heinsohn" To: References: <006801c9f807$36559e10$a300da30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280849n4423a8d9na5bcc96ff164f5c8@mail.gmail.com> <008201c9f809$4e354d80$ea9fe880$@net> <60bd0a2c0906280908m5d4172a8u939d3313547f1e36@mail.gmail.com> <008b01c9f80c$ccdaff10$6690fd30$@net> <60bd0a2c0906281032x4931299bqd1ee0558c8c3dbb2@mail.gmail.com> <009d01c9f819$142bdea0$3c839be0$@net><8CBC686942B201A-134C-22F8@webmail-da12.sysops.aol.com> <011801c9f873$da373b30$8ea5b190$@net> <8CBC6E579275A05-D44-1F23@webmail-me08.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8CBC6E579275A05-D44-1F23@webmail-me08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <007501c9f92c$c50c3a80$4f24af80$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acn4zwYJsvQsv23QRAexJLEF8gc1HQAXSFOw Content-Language: en-us Subject: [UUPoly-L] WAS: Kansas City NOW: Lawrence, Kansas Wheatstate Pizza July 1 6 PM X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 02:46:30 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:44:55 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 02:46:30 -0000 To all on the list who might be able to attend, there will be a gathering of poly friendly folk at Wheatstate Pizza in Lawrence Kansas on July 1 at 6 PM. This establishment is at 23rd and Louisiana. I am intentionally posting on list as there may have been more that Kit and I who are members of UUPoly and interested in meeting Jasmine on that evening. Hopefully, the netiquette police will not be too up in arms about this posting about a social even not everyone can attend. Christine -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of jasminegld@aol.com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:29 AM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Kansas City Yes, Lawrence is an option. Are there others interested, maybe from the east side of Kansas City? I'm flexible on location and time, any time after 4pm. If the local folks can compare notes and agree to a place and time, I'll meet you there. Jasmine From wild_card@sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 30 10:43:37 2009 Received: from web83001.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web83001.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.87.7]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n5UEgPaX009388 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:43:36 -0400 Received: (qmail 1425 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Jun 2009 14:42:25 -0000 Message-ID: <521035.89297.qm@web83001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: XKpZsB0VM1kVnfY7aLt_ZyPJ4bgFjE7hfxeqr7PAA497qeqw.zZwDgoPvIu64y7UNaQ2HBAARpfPF95Ju0YW6J14XYgt_gR2hRtt2_Hx9.OQs7mHuiASY0VB41f9d_LcenEOIHzsflMRE4pcrTFtNmeIDWnowv7iCtnVgpg407yMCnuiE6Gek7Rx4w26AtW3.1owW1OnY2BJONlMgBalUNFL0dnK6LoUX63I0BI5tHouM0dj5HqEH8UqZxLkROmezlE2etnEld670c9kJ6K04lifo_f47nqN2aFfAtnXHMTFPgS67VoXa7qregfTfFAolV_SZ94GDJ1FK221z.HbOXpB4j025n3VxGkTcElHr5k- Received: from [75.21.69.212] by web83001.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:42:25 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.4.17 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 From: P O To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Scarcity Model of Love X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:43:37 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:42:25 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:43:37 -0000 Well, one thing I'd add to this is the mixed message given about the power = of love vs. jealousy.=A0 How often are we told "love conquers all" in some = form or another.=A0 It's in every romance out there, most Disney fairytales= , and it pervades so much of our culture it's just assumed.=A0=20 =A0=A0 At the same time we're told that jealousy is so powerful that any at= tempt to share our love will result in pain and the destruction of all the = relationships. This is found throughout books, movies and tv.=A0=20 =A0 So, which is it?=A0 Is love all-powerful, or is jealousy? =A0=A0=20 --- On Mon, 6/29/09, uupoly-l-request@uupa.org = wrote: Message: 4 Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:48:44 -0500 From: Poly Friend Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Definition: "starvation model of love"? To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: =A0=A0=A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dwindows-1252 This topic is cross-posted to 2 other lists. Scarcity and Abundance models.= . hmmmm.... I think looking at it the terms of those words might be more useful.... Thanks... I was writing the following and I did not like it and so I started to look for a more authoritative definition. I could find one so I came to you all. I would appreciate any questions comments and suggestions on this. I can ever scrap it totally. Any thoughts, comments, o= r resources? ****** Starvation Model of Love: The entire conservative and Christian precept of love is based off of the Starvation Model of Love (ie.= . you only have so much love to give). If I love her and her then they both get 50%, so I am not loving either of them ?fully?, or I love one 70%/30%. It is therefore not possible to love them equally, but differently. This is something that conservative religions love to teach, because it is a convenient tool that greatly assists in controlling the masses through guil= t and penance, especially because it runs counter to our natural evolutionary instincts, and abilities to love. Using this pervasive ?logic?? it must follow that you can only love one person, therefore, if you love your wife you must not love others, surely because you can only love one person. You must not be able to love your children, your parents, your grandparents? aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews, and best friends then. Fortunately this is not the case. Then it must class based. You must only be able to love one person in each specific class?. hmmm? that does not seem to be tru= e either ? you love both parents, and potentially more than one child. So, that is not correct either. It seems that you can love as many people as yo= u want as long as you are not romantically or intimately involved with them. That is quite the convenient limit. =3D( Unlimited in all areas except roma= nce and intimacy. Humans have an infinite ability to love, but we are not taugh= t how to do that. We are taught that fear and possessiveness is OK. The fact that we do love more than one person proves this that we can? parents, children, friends, etc. We are just afraid to love and embrace intimacy wit= h more than one person, because we are taught that it is bad, which really makes no sense. To have more intimacy and romantic love in your life is a wonderful and empowering thing. Love begets more love. It is fear, and lack of communication and openness, that destroys our ability to love. We can love more than one person romantically, but it is difficult to do especiall= y with what we are taught, and our societal and religious teachings, and because we have limited time. Time is what we are limited with, and not love. ****** On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:04, Mimi wrote: > I think this corresponds to what I've seen called the "scarcity model," a= nd > it applies to love, money, or anything else.=A0 The opposite would be the > abundance model.=A0 As licorice gumdrop says, it is a zero-sum game.