From imapolygirl@yahoo.com Tue Sep 1 16:47:56 2009 Received: from web51702.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web51702.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.38.220]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n81Klubc007401 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2009 16:47:56 -0400 Received: (qmail 12680 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Sep 2009 20:47:56 -0000 Message-ID: <938961.12405.qm@web51702.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: PfXgjJIVM1m762KVntc8RLCG3SxFhob0XAxkml8ZV76xn201kgX9I36afO44WQrQkVX5Z6vZbncGC5gkBsryox7motUjBSmw49l7SzsP6wEigsjG06VFbmfUIDEn4bFUUL.jy4N4GcrJpFUdSpyw3ez5cy59rQkz9IpYRQX_l.G5pa_ZkdKnMU3nUe0qTPGK3zWmBCDsavQOGbekdMIuYnBO4is1efQ2UezTnznoRinJSDBIMjzQq3O9fRSmg4ja5c5jP_XsecDR8HZgKpdLbrEmUQbgT6vaXVAOmvmh2NLTffrGSo298.WO0io4SA9NM1IyRzr_pHoTZSQJr5zLv5aLBVrrlctUUKfgRSMo_JoUrKI7rHfXvmzziQGaEEQeMQwdyHVtAew- Received: from [216.207.71.1] by web51702.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Sep 2009 13:47:55 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1358.27 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 References: From: Anita Wagner To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Comments? X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 20:47:57 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:47:55 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 20:47:57 -0000 I think he gave excellent advice, too.=A0 What the poly person fails to rec= ognize is that=A0what she is=A0introducing is not just a second partner int= o the family.=A0 It's a huge=A0ethical/moral departure from the=A0those tha= t the rest of the family lives by.=A0 This departure calls those morals int= o question,=A0morals the family has lived by and literally accepted as nece= ssary for the saving of their souls.=A0 So naturally, if they love their re= latives they will be disturbed by such a radical departure from what is nec= essary for salvation.=A0 =0A=0AI'm not defending their intolerance, just re= flecting on the way this looks from their perspective.=A0=A0I know Jasmine = and others here have been there, I've certainly been there myself, growing = up Southern Baptist and all.=A0 Heck, my sister's new husband had to resign= as a deacon in his So. Baptist church because he married a woman who had b= een divorced.=A0=A0She had to convince the church elders that hers were "Bi= blical" divorces in order to be permitted to marry in the church.=A0 =0A=0A= Anita=A0=A0=0A=A0=0A---------------------------------------------------=0A= =A0=0ABlogging on polyamory relationship skills, the polyamory community/mo= vement, polyamory activism, and, even occasionally, on my own lovely poly l= ife, at http://practicalpolyamory.blogspot.com=0A=A0Get help with jealousy,= poly/mono relating and other pitfalls of polyamory at Practical Polyamory = - =A0=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "JasmineGld@ao= l.com" =0ATo: uupoly-l@uupa.org=0ASent: Friday, August = 21, 2009 6:00:44 PM=0ASubject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Comments?=0A=0A=0AIn a messag= e dated 8/21/2009 5:29:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=A0 =0Aystradyfodwg@ya= hoo.com writes:=0A=0A> Ask Richard: Considering=0A> an Ultimatum to her=A0 = Intolerant Family=0A=0A=0ARichard gave excellent advice. =0A=0AJasmine =0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________________________________= __=0AThe UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives.=0APlease keep that in m= ind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself.=0AUUPoly-L mailing lis= t=0AUUPoly-L@uupa.org=0Ahttp://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l=0Ahtt= p://www.practicalpolyamory.com From onespiritofall@earthlink.net Wed Sep 2 13:19:28 2009 Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n82HJSBA016797 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:19:28 -0400 Received: from [209.86.224.50] (helo=mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MitUW-0005rA-09 for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:19:28 -0400 Received: from 69.81.206.231 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:19:27 -0400 Message-ID: <22495823.1251911968001.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Dale A Friend To: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 866d5b9a0f065c48e1dd65706271e44894f5150ab1c16ac0d64a9adbca5b3d7c03e113cec9f6524d7e31e79df3b5ad48350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.50 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 60, Issue 1 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: Dale A Friend , uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:19:28 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:19:27 -0400 (EDT) X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:19:28 -0000 unsubscribe, please -----Original Message----- >From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org >Sent: Sep 2, 2009 12:00 PM >To: uupoly-l@uupa.org >Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 60, Issue 1 > >Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to > uupoly-l@uupa.org > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > >You can reach the person managing the list at > uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Comments? (Anita Wagner) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:47:55 -0700 (PDT) >From: Anita Wagner >Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Comments? >To: uupoly-l@uupa.org >Message-ID: <938961.12405.qm@web51702.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >I think he gave excellent advice, too.? What the poly person fails to recognize is that?what she is?introducing is not just a second partner into the family.? It's a huge?ethical/moral departure from the?those that the rest of the family lives by.? This departure calls those morals into question,?morals the family has lived by and literally accepted as necessary for the saving of their souls.? So naturally, if they love their relatives they will be disturbed by such a radical departure from what is necessary for salvation.? > >I'm not defending their intolerance, just reflecting on the way this looks from their perspective.??I know Jasmine and others here have been there, I've certainly been there myself, growing up Southern Baptist and all.? Heck, my sister's new husband had to resign as a deacon in his So. Baptist church because he married a woman who had been divorced.??She had to convince the church elders that hers were "Biblical" divorces in order to be permitted to marry in the church.? > >Anita?? >? >--------------------------------------------------- >? >Blogging on polyamory relationship skills, the polyamory community/movement, polyamory activism, and, even occasionally, on my own lovely poly life, at http://practicalpolyamory.blogspot.com >?Get help with jealousy, poly/mono relating and other pitfalls of polyamory at Practical Polyamory - ? > > > > >________________________________ >From: "JasmineGld@aol.com" >To: uupoly-l@uupa.org >Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 6:00:44 PM >Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Comments? > > >In a message dated 8/21/2009 5:29:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? >ystradyfodwg@yahoo.com writes: > >> Ask Richard: Considering >> an Ultimatum to her? Intolerant Family > > >Richard gave excellent advice. > >Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. >Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. >UUPoly-L mailing list >UUPoly-L@uupa.org >http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >http://www.practicalpolyamory.com > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. >Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. >UUPoly-L mailing list >UUPoly-L@uupa.org >http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > >End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 60, Issue 1 >*************************************** From onehuming@gmail.com Tue Sep 15 14:24:11 2009 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com (mail-yx0-f189.google.com [209.85.210.189]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8FIOBNS008601 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:24:11 -0400 Received: by yxe27 with SMTP id 27so5530952yxe.10 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:24:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.32.17 with SMTP id f17mr2989906ybf.75.1253039050877; Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:24:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19da00b90909151124h5d557457j5504dd1cd22fd22e@mail.gmail.com> From: Blythe Pelham To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] UU Service X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:24:11 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:24:10 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:24:11 -0000 Hi folks... Some fellow UU Polys and I are offering up a service at our UU fellowship next month :-) I have a request... any of you who are so moved, what would you like to tell them? Any myths you'd like to correct, or truths you'd like to share? I'm trying to keep this on the positive side and not invite cynicism et al... I know that will come as it will, but I don't want to be the one spreading the gunk around so pessimism and sourness stick :-) Also, anyone who has produced a service at their church and who might have anecdotals to share??? Don't hesitate to do so (privately is more than okay also). Blythe (who notes that she'll be more than happy to post an intro, if that's necessary) From popefelix@gmail.com Tue Sep 15 17:19:27 2009 Received: from mail-bw0-f207.google.com (mail-bw0-f207.google.com [209.85.218.207]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8FLJQTE018546 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:19:26 -0400 Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so3011346bwz.26 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:19:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.57.210 with SMTP id d18mr2719650fah.106.1253049563211; Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:19:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <19da00b90909151124h5d557457j5504dd1cd22fd22e@mail.gmail.com> References: <19da00b90909151124h5d557457j5504dd1cd22fd22e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: From: Kit Peters To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UU Service X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:19:27 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:19:23 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:19:27 -0000 Like anyone else, we want the freedom to love whomever we choose. KP On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 13:24, Blythe Pelham wrote: > Hi folks... > > Some fellow UU Polys and I are offering up a service at our UU fellowship > next month :-) > > I have a request... any of you who are so moved, what would you like to tell > them? -- GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7 From airsafe1@comcast.net Wed Sep 16 01:23:33 2009 Received: from QMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.56]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8G5MQIU012973 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 01:23:33 -0400 Received: from OMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.35]) by QMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id hGkN1c0040lTkoCA6HNLUP; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 05:22:20 +0000 Received: from DaveVostro1400 ([76.29.163.51]) by OMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id hHNK1c00216qme48QHNKFE; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 05:22:19 +0000 From: "David Hall" To: References: <19636089.5952.1253039196577.JavaMail.root@n01> Message-ID: <9E37E869AAA3411CB296745FC9EEF88E@DaveVostro1400> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Aco2Mg7qM8oW9KEKSNeFR6jGXTjxmgAWuFgg In-Reply-To: <19636089.5952.1253039196577.JavaMail.root@n01> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UU Service X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 05:23:34 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:22:17 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 05:23:34 -0000 The UUPA.org web site has several messages given in churches on the subject. You could get a lot of ideas there. As for feedback, when I did it a few years ago, I got a couple of thank you handshakes and one very negative response from an old guy who is no longer with us. My sense is there are only a few people who are willing to be our friends and we rarely attend. The UUPA ministry is IN the local church, so what ever we do increases awareness, if not acceptance. Dave Hall -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+airsafe1=comcast.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+airsafe1=comcast.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of Blythe Pelham Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:24 AM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: [UUPoly-L] UU Service Hi folks... Some fellow UU Polys and I are offering up a service at our UU fellowship next month :-) I have a request... any of you who are so moved, what would you like to tell them? Any myths you'd like to correct, or truths you'd like to share? I'm trying to keep this on the positive side and not invite cynicism et al... I know that will come as it will, but I don't want to be the one spreading the gunk around so pessimism and sourness stick :-) Also, anyone who has produced a service at their church and who might have anecdotals to share??? Don't hesitate to do so (privately is more than okay also). Blythe (who notes that she'll be more than happy to post an intro, if that's necessary) _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From onehuming@gmail.com Wed Sep 16 12:17:33 2009 Received: from mail-vw0-f184.google.com (mail-vw0-f184.google.com [209.85.212.184]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8GGHWn0017045 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:17:33 -0400 Received: by vws14 with SMTP id 14so187013vws.10 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:17:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.56.23 with SMTP id e23mr15012336yba.234.1253117852510; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:17:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19da00b90909160917j47be5a61u14d0f6dc1b5b85ff@mail.gmail.com> From: Blythe Pelham To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 60, Issue 3 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:17:33 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:17:32 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:17:33 -0000 Thanks KP and Dave :-) I'm aware of the UUA goodies, thanks :-) I wasn't looking so much for ideas of what to do or how to do it as I was wanting to have "real live" quotes from "real live" polys... We have a couple of naysayer types who think of this subject as a theory and philosophical discussion rather than "real people living real lives" and succeeding as well as any other relationships do. With your permission, KP, I may use your quote as someone on this list... Let me know :-) Thanks (also to those who have emailed me privately). Blythe From alanmacrobert@gmail.com Wed Sep 16 13:02:55 2009 Received: from mail-ew0-f219.google.com (mail-ew0-f219.google.com [209.85.219.219]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8GH2sMD020792 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:02:55 -0400 Received: by ewy19 with SMTP id 19so5811240ewy.20 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:02:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: alanmacrobert@gmail.com Received: by 10.211.147.5 with SMTP id z5mr10167607ebn.87.1253120571761; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:02:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Sender-Auth: 1610ae65b74e5759 Message-ID: From: alan7388 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UU Service X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:02:55 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:02:51 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:02:55 -0000 > As for feedback, when I did it a few years ago, I got a couple of thank you > handshakes and one very negative response from an old guy who is > no longer with us. > > My sense is there are only a few people who are willing to be our friends > and we rarely attend. Maybe that was then and this is now. Depending on how many years back that was, more people have been exposed by now to accurate accounts of what polyamory is and isn't. Alan M. From popefelix@gmail.com Wed Sep 16 13:04:49 2009 Received: from mail-bw0-f207.google.com (mail-bw0-f207.google.com [209.85.218.207]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8GH4n3M021320 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:04:49 -0400 Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so3529624bwz.26 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:04:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.4.208 with SMTP id 16mr3099615fas.69.1253120685984; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:04:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <19da00b90909160917j47be5a61u14d0f6dc1b5b85ff@mail.gmail.com> References: <19da00b90909160917j47be5a61u14d0f6dc1b5b85ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: From: Kit Peters To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 60, Issue 3 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:04:50 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:04:45 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:04:50 -0000 You have my permission. And if you want to use my name, call me "Kit Peters". :) I just sign my emails "KP", and it seems to cause a bit of confusion... KP On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 11:17, Blythe Pelham wrote: > Thanks KP and Dave :-) > > I'm aware of the UUA goodies, thanks :-) I wasn't looking so much for ideas > of what to do or how to do it as I was wanting to have "real live" quotes > from "real live" polys... We have a couple of naysayer types who think of > this subject as a theory and philosophical discussion rather than "real > people living real lives" and succeeding as well as any other relationships > do. > > With your permission, KP, I may use your quote as someone on this list... > Let me know :-) Thanks (also to those who have emailed me privately). Blythe > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > -- GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 46A7 From shyvixen@ymail.com Wed Sep 16 23:21:58 2009 Received: from n10.bullet.re3.yahoo.com (n10.bullet.re3.yahoo.com [68.142.237.123]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n8H3Kppl024907 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:21:58 -0400 Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n10.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2009 03:20:51 -0000 Received: from [67.195.9.81] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2009 03:20:51 -0000 Received: from [67.195.9.102] by t1.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2009 03:20:51 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2009 03:20:51 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 4623.63629.bm@omp106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 77560 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Sep 2009 03:20:50 -0000 Message-ID: <780258.77547.qm@web112221.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: NVI8BtwVM1kGdsPcvUh_JzqJ7e0V5WDzmIhKwSV_AGS1C0FfjoCpfLWbQ3lXePRKlZFBRKMq08_ZmDhtvO5oMbnCFZpuroRDOj6M571xB_Ss7zN7EqtFqZcsKuJrVybSsCHXQZOK6AX9kAG5sWzjxIP4UfALMUQ8gVPAc1BU.sJ8X5m.WIx2iOgXLleme7fCRIHQxq9N1MwBaVdmhODQ0l.jkARWGUDA.Vp4reqJv6gAfLlL8JgiCtoESno- Received: from [24.19.213.17] by web112221.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:20:50 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 From: Shy Vixen To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 60, Issue 3 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 03:21:58 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:20:50 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 03:21:58 -0000 Hi, I just joined this list. Are you located in the Seattle area? If so, I'd like to attend your next ga= thering. Thanks, A. --- On Wed, 9/16/09, uupoly-l-request@uupa.org = wrote: From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 60, Issue 3 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 9:00 AM Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to =A0=A0=A0 uupoly-l@uupa.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit =A0=A0=A0 http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to =A0=A0=A0 uupoly-l-request@uupa.org You can reach the person managing the list at =A0=A0=A0 uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." Today's Topics: =A0=A0=A01. UU Service (Blythe Pelham) =A0=A0=A02. Re: UU Service (Kit Peters) =A0=A0=A03. Re: UU Service (David Hall) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:24:10 -0400 From: Blythe Pelham Subject: [UUPoly-L] UU Service To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: =A0=A0=A0 <19da00b90909151124h5d557457j5504dd1cd22fd22e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 Hi folks... Some fellow UU Polys and I are offering up a service at our UU fellowship next month :-) I have a request... any of you who are so moved, what would you like to tel= l them? Any myths you'd like to correct, or truths you'd like to share? I'm trying to keep this on the positive side and not invite cynicism et al... I know that will come as it will, but I don't want to be the one spreading th= e gunk around so pessimism and sourness stick :-) Also, anyone who has produced a service at their church and who might have anecdotals to share??? Don't hesitate to do so (privately is more than okay also). Blythe (who notes that she'll be more than happy to post an intro, if that'= s necessary) ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:19:23 -0500 From: Kit Peters Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UU Service To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: =A0=A0=A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUTF-8 Like anyone else, we want the freedom to love whomever we choose. KP On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 13:24, Blythe Pelham wrote: > Hi folks... > > Some fellow UU Polys and I are offering up a service at our UU fellowship > next month :-) > > I have a request... any of you who are so moved, what would you like to t= ell > them? --=20 GPG public key fingerpint: 1A12 04B6 0C80 306A B292=A0 14FD 2C7A 1037 F666 = 46A7 ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:22:17 -0700 From: "David Hall" Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UU Service To: Message-ID: <9E37E869AAA3411CB296745FC9EEF88E@DaveVostro1400> Content-Type: text/plain;=A0=A0=A0 charset=3D"us-ascii" The UUPA.org web site has several messages given in churches on the subject= .. You could get a lot of ideas there. As for feedback, when I did it a few years ago, I got a couple of thank you handshakes and one very negative response from an old guy who is no longer with us. My sense is there are only a few people who are willing to be our friends and we rarely attend.=20 The UUPA ministry is IN the local church, so what ever we do increases awareness, if not acceptance. Dave Hall -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+airsafe1=3Dcomcast.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+airsafe1=3Dcomcast.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of Blyt= he Pelham Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:24 AM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: [UUPoly-L] UU Service Hi folks... Some fellow UU Polys and I are offering up a service at our UU fellowship next month :-) I have a request... any of you who are so moved, what would you like to tel= l them? Any myths you'd like to correct, or truths you'd like to share? I'm trying to keep this on the positive side and not invite cynicism et al... I know that will come as it will, but I don't want to be the one spreading th= e gunk around so pessimism and sourness stick :-) Also, anyone who has produced a service at their church and who might have anecdotals to share??? Don't hesitate to do so (privately is more than okay also). Blythe (who notes that she'll be more than happy to post an intro, if that'= s necessary) _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 60, Issue 3 *************************************** =0A=0A=0A From desmondravenstone@yahoo.com Thu Sep 17 09:57:32 2009 Received: from web50503.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web50503.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.38.79]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n8HDvWUd027059 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:57:32 -0400 Received: (qmail 78506 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Sep 2009 13:57:32 -0000 Message-ID: <950491.78338.qm@web50503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: sFfz27oVM1mfvuR10ApwmIudPuCg0qJ6rnkhpr6KOn_ZLJEpzjzyYP8fKAcZ9Vlx_yColDXpbP.AQCoDEL0CM3VchVoiNv1STW433fAqNgVEioZob1DSWu1prZ2EKEWrbtntas0b0ErWvVg19aehXqquunlSYUTa8pfE0g3h8qz7F3ijIOfMayECShJ8a80HMvoljz2_1_JEcp4igCYpWRNyK_WmCre5wnHsg.hsXHxNq35Nr1Nic85ZlFgTlVp0ML5VJSqkBMEa9HTI8AC6MY3pVzPAiwz4eG5ERf38em4xiAgeQJgIqTjRsg-- Received: from [72.59.233.81] by web50503.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 06:57:31 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 From: Desmond Ravenstone To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id n8HDvWUd027059 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Sacred Eros returns for second year X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:57:32 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 06:57:31 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:57:32 -0000 Sacred Eros – Arlington Street Church’s monthly discussion and support group on sexuality and spirituality – returns for a second year on Monday, September 28 at 7:00 PM, and every fourth Monday of the month. We will only be making periodic reminders on this list from now on. So, if you would like to receive regular announcements and other related news, please join our new online forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SacredEros. Thanks! Desmond Ravenstone Moderator for Sacred Eros From earthfather@cfnc.us Thu Sep 17 12:55:55 2009 Received: from vms173019pub.verizon.net (vms173019pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.19]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8HGsjM5005321 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:55:54 -0400 Received: from MVRLENOVO ([173.79.130.134]) by vms173019.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KQ400HF5K9TBTM5@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net> for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:54:00 -0500 (CDT) From: "Michael Rios" To: References: <950491.78338.qm@web50503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-id: <087173967611406786D169C28A1A2098@MVRLENOVO> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: <950491.78338.qm@web50503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-index: Aco3nta0CWZaapqYQYOWs87s3krGpQAGGNZQ Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Sacred Eros returns for second year X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:55:56 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:53:58 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:55:56 -0000 Please, if you have an announcement about an event, let us know what the city and *state* the event is taking place in. I know at least 10 Arlingtons, for instance. If the town it is taking place in is obscure, it is nice to have a large city to locate it by: "about an hour north of Philadelphia", for instance. Thanks! Michael Rios > -----Original Message----- > From: uupoly-l-bounces+earthfather=cfnc.us@uupa.org > [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+earthfather=cfnc.us@uupa.org] On > Behalf Of Desmond Ravenstone > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:58 AM > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Sacred Eros returns for second year > > Sacred Eros - Arlington Street Church's monthly discussion > and support group on sexuality and spirituality - returns for > a second year on Monday, September 28 at 7:00 PM, and every > fourth Monday of the month. > > We will only be making periodic reminders on this list from > now on. So, if you would like to receive regular > announcements and other related news, please join our new > online forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SacredEros. > > Thanks! > > Desmond Ravenstone > Moderator for Sacred Eros > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From anthony.roza@gmail.com Thu Sep 17 13:04:10 2009 Received: from mail-ew0-f219.google.com (mail-ew0-f219.google.com [209.85.219.219]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8HH4AEm006499 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:04:10 -0400 Received: by ewy19 with SMTP id 19so1352708ewy.20 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:04:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.91.15 with SMTP id g15mr240287wef.24.1253207047696; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:04:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <087173967611406786D169C28A1A2098@MVRLENOVO> References: <950491.78338.qm@web50503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <087173967611406786D169C28A1A2098@MVRLENOVO> Message-ID: <5aaa462a0909171004u32c70870o8a4add615f793030@mail.gmail.com> From: Roza Anthony To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Sacred Eros returns for second year X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:04:10 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:04:07 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:04:10 -0000 Speaking for Desmond and as a frequent member of the Sacred Eros group, it takes place in Boston, Massachusetts. It's easily accessible by the subway here in Boston. Thank, Michael, good point. Roza On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Michael Rios wrote: > Please, if you have an announcement about an event, let us know what the > city and *state* the event is taking place in. I know at least 10 > Arlingtons, for instance. > > If the town it is taking place in is obscure, it is nice to have a large > city to locate it by: "about an hour north of Philadelphia", for instance. > > Thanks! > > Michael Rios > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: uupoly-l-bounces+earthfather=cfnc.us@uupa.org > > [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+earthfather = > cfnc.us@uupa.org] On > > Behalf Of Desmond Ravenstone > > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:58 AM > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Sacred Eros returns for second year > > > > Sacred Eros - Arlington Street Church's monthly discussion > > and support group on sexuality and spirituality - returns for > > a second year on Monday, September 28 at 7:00 PM, and every > > fourth Monday of the month. > > > > We will only be making periodic reminders on this list from > > now on. So, if you would like to receive regular > > announcements and other related news, please join our new > > online forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SacredEros. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Desmond Ravenstone > > Moderator for Sacred Eros > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > > about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From onehuming@gmail.com Thu Sep 17 17:02:37 2009 Received: from mail-yw0-f180.google.com (mail-yw0-f180.google.com [209.85.211.180]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8HL2bOj019403 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:02:37 -0400 Received: by ywh10 with SMTP id 10so538603ywh.8 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:02:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.20.15 with SMTP id x15mr1950585ybi.126.1253221353989; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19da00b90909171402h52aee635yfb899b3ac6be6df7@mail.gmail.com> From: Blythe Pelham To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Various Replies :-) X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:02:37 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:02:33 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:02:37 -0000 A., If you're asking if *I'm* in the Seattle area, alas no... In Ohio :-) I will be in Seattle in a month for a family wedding :-) KP (Kit)... thanks, I will gladly use your name :-) I think using initials and/or names will help me show the personal side of it all... I really want these folks to see us all as humings just like them... adding names helps do that! Know that I will NOT do so without each person's express permission, though! Alan, Good point re the when was it? Recently or further back... OTOH, I know I got a whole variety of acceptance reactions when I came out last year - some willing to grow into acceptance, others well? Let's just say I'm thinkin' it'll remain a topic we agree to leave in the closet and not bring out again, thankyouverymuch. I've come to see it in a similar light to any of the other "outside the lines" life choices I make. Some folks are open, others prefer restrained order and my choices basically disrupt that order :-) Desmond? Arlington where? VA? WA? Somewhere else? Blythe From fry.ellen@gmail.com Thu Sep 17 19:08:34 2009 Received: from mail-ew0-f224.google.com (mail-ew0-f224.google.com [209.85.219.224]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8HN8XcV026876 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:08:34 -0400 Received: by ewy24 with SMTP id 24so854762ewy.22 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:08:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.86.213 with SMTP id w63mr357247wee.71.1253228912107; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:08:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <19da00b90909171402h52aee635yfb899b3ac6be6df7@mail.gmail.com> References: <19da00b90909171402h52aee635yfb899b3ac6be6df7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3c53e5be0909171608r21750b42x7458570a5533061b@mail.gmail.com> From: Ellen Fry To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Various Replies :-) X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:08:34 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:08:32 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:08:34 -0000 Hi Blythe, I'm in Ohio too, near Cleveland. I'm new to poly, and I thought I'd join this list to meet some other poly people. Hi everyone. On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Blythe Pelham wrote: > A., > If you're asking if *I'm* in the Seattle area, alas no... In Ohio :-) I > will > be in Seattle in a month for a family wedding :-) > > KP (Kit)... > thanks, I will gladly use your name :-) I think using initials and/or names > will help me show the personal side of it all... I really want these folks > to see us all as humings just like them... adding names helps do that! Know > that I will NOT do so without each person's express permission, though! > > Alan, > Good point re the when was it? Recently or further back... OTOH, I know I > got a whole variety of acceptance reactions when I came out last year - > some > willing to grow into acceptance, others well? Let's just say I'm thinkin' > it'll remain a topic we agree to leave in the closet and not bring out > again, thankyouverymuch. I've come to see it in a similar light to any of > the other "outside the lines" life choices I make. Some folks are open, > others prefer restrained order and my choices basically disrupt that order > :-) > > Desmond? > Arlington where? VA? WA? Somewhere else? > > Blythe > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From union-consult@charter.net Wed Sep 23 20:34:39 2009 Received: from mta21.charter.net (mta21.charter.net [216.33.127.81]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8O0YdPR018090 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:34:39 -0400 Received: from imp10 ([10.20.200.10]) by mta21.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.01.00 201-2219-108-20080618) with ESMTP id <20090924003417.SYWR6957.mta21.charter.net@imp10> for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:34:17 -0400 Received: from kelly ([68.114.60.183]) by imp10 with smtp.charter.net id kQaG1c0023xCNCL05QaGTX; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:34:17 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=RQjzd5wtZUXSy24DOCEA:9 a=rDy_FWvuOyYlyZNy-Wv1od3BP7sA:4 a=VGGuWHY8n-3Lbiur:21 a=PC1pWoTNCZihQEen:21 Message-ID: <3FD1F19D50534560BAFE456B55738B4E@kelly> From: "Union Consult" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dear Abby's take on poly X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:34:40 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:34:09 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:34:40 -0000 Should set the movement back at least a decade ------------------------------------------------------------------------- DEAR ABBY: My 22-year-old son is involved with a 22-year-old girl who is married. He has moved in with her, her husband and their 4-year-old son. He says he's happy with the arrangement. I have tried to accept this even though I don't approve. I don't want to alienate my son, but I see no good coming from this lifestyle. Abby, please help. -- DISGUSTED MOM IN HENDERSON, NEV. DEAR DISGUSTED MOM: You do not have to "accept" the arrangement, and as your son's mother you are entitled to tell him you don't approve and why. But he is over 21, and some lessons have to be learned the hard way. So remain calm and bide your time because, sooner or later, the husband's tolerance will wear thin or your son will realize that he deserves to rate higher than No. 2. From ystradyfodwg@yahoo.com Thu Sep 24 11:14:42 2009 Received: from web54402.mail.yahoo.com (web54402.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.49.132]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n8OFDaFZ002763 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:14:42 -0400 Received: (qmail 53967 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Sep 2009 15:13:36 -0000 Message-ID: <434688.53042.qm@web54402.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: l3HcWpQVM1n9YudFnn1PRnTNwECDfI.gXJjJKksqwOEFo4fwuZ92P6OI0kGZr6q.zYEptHRxnnU5aq25MTBp4fDBtI7RrQ2nhxF69nvpfLMMQZkycXDKYdkTVXeZxYePba2Rwam_JVRtbKOTzkSlVjkOkt2j3OwvlJqBxsgZOCj0T8Ezh8LF0N.vF1MOhuI1wfQ_JvTUeWQvxJlHKrTBRUcZ2BmGBqgMWVvOZ_FuyXPxLo3Iz6oH47zk4yKveHn5vm4UuQhrvq1s6RSNfVmbkgAfm7SgZ2sPZcMUeX3he2YV1nkdLVaWC5R2vzIDM3TT18pSWYJWGSW.7J5UBuuTeRCliOTom2bDNNpB Received: from [65.7.187.107] by web54402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:13:36 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/157.18 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 References: <3FD1F19D50534560BAFE456B55738B4E@kelly> From: Mr Y To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: <3FD1F19D50534560BAFE456B55738B4E@kelly> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dear Abby's take on poly X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:14:43 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:13:36 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:14:43 -0000 IMNSHO... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >DEAR ABBY: My 22-year-old son is involved with a 22-year-old girl who is >married. He has moved in with her, her husband and their 4-year-old son. He >says he's happy with the arrangement. >I have tried to accept this even though I don't approve. I don't want to >alienate my son, but I see no good coming from this lifestyle. Abby, please >help. -- DISGUSTED MOM IN HENDERSON, NEV. >DEAR DISGUSTED MOM: >You do not have to "accept" the arrangement, and as your >son's mother you are entitled to tell him you don't approve and why. This is true - the mother does not have to accept her son's arrangement and she is entitled to voice her opinion of the situation >But he is over 21, This definitely puts it into the "Consenting Adults" category >and some lessons have to be learned the hard way. ...and this also is true... >So remain calm and bide your time ... not bad advice >because, sooner or later, the husband's tolerance will wear thin A possible but unwarranted conclusion... >or your son will realize that he deserves to rate higher than No. 2. Another possible and unwarranted assumption My objections to Abby's response is two-fold. She seems intolerant of any variation when it comes to marital relationships (she may be she is a DOMA activist - who knows) and my biggest gripe is her perception that in a polyamorist situation the son will be number 2. He may be number two and he may not be number two - we are not privy to "the rest of the story" about how the three have structured their interrelationship... A consenting adult, acting in full knowledge of the situation, may find the "number two" status quite comfortable and compatible with their wants and way of life... If that works - fine! I have been in just such a relationship and it worked extremely well. I did not feel like I was a second class citizen in the situation. I had a say in anything that concerned "me" or "us" We three were accepted by neighbors and the school where the kids attended classes... ... the big issue was the legality of getting non-emergency medical treatment for the children But between us three, things went well for eight years until one of us decided the get married to another person. (Which was okay also...) Parting thought - wonder if the mother is tolerant of any LTA her son might get involved in - or - what if her son joined a commune (if any still exist) My two cents worth on this particular article Ystradyfodwg aka MrY Dubitando ad veritatem venimus [Through scepticism comes truth] From mknd17@hotmail.com Thu Sep 24 12:40:21 2009 Received: from snt0-omc2-s22.snt0.hotmail.com (snt0-omc2-s22.snt0.hotmail.com [65.55.90.97]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8OGdDTj008856 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:40:20 -0400 Received: from SNT102-W20 ([65.55.90.71]) by snt0-omc2-s22.snt0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:38:52 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [76.127.51.114] From: Timothy McKee To: Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <434688.53042.qm@web54402.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3FD1F19D50534560BAFE456B55738B4E@kelly> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2009 16:38:52.0613 (UTC) FILETIME=[8027BF50:01CA3D35] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dear Abby's take on poly X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:40:22 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:38:52 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:40:22 -0000 I am quite comfortable in being less than number one. Actually there was an= Olympic Swimmer named Tim McKee from the United States who missed the gold= medal by two one thousandths of a second in 1972. It was one of the closes= t contests in athletic history if not the closest. Interestingly enough I o= nce printed a poetry broadside with equal areas of swimming pool blue. That= was long before I found out about the other Tim McKee. =20 If any of you want to feel like you're a bona fide member of the Silver Hea= rt Society know that you have company!!! =20 Tim =20 > Date: Thu=2C 24 Sep 2009 08:13:36 -0700 > From: ystradyfodwg@yahoo.com > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dear Abby's take on poly >=20 > IMNSHO... >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >DEAR ABBY: My 22-year-old son is involved with a 22-year-old girl who is= =20 > >married. He has moved in with her=2C her husband and their 4-year-old so= n. He=20 > >says he's happy with the arrangement. > >I have tried to accept this even though I don't approve. I don't want to= =20 > >alienate my son=2C but I see no good coming from this lifestyle. Abby=2C= please=20 > >help. -- DISGUSTED MOM IN HENDERSON=2C NEV. >=20 > >DEAR DISGUSTED MOM:=20 > >You do not have to "accept" the arrangement=2C and as your=20 > >son's mother you are entitled to tell him you don't approve and why.=20 >=20 > This is true - the mother does not have to accept her son's arrangement=20 > and she is entitled to voice her opinion of the situation >=20 > >But he is over 21=2C=20 > This definitely puts it into the "Consenting Adults" category >=20 > >and some lessons have to be learned the hard way.=20 > ...and this also is true... >=20 > >So remain calm and bide your time=20 > ... not bad advice >=20 > >because=2C sooner or later=2C the husband's tolerance will wear thin > A possible but unwarranted conclusion... >=20 > >or your son will realize that he deserves to rate higher than No. 2. > Another possible and unwarranted assumption >=20 > My objections to Abby's response is two-fold. She seems intolerant of any= variation when it comes > to marital relationships (she may be she is a DOMA activist - who knows) = and my biggest gripe is > her perception that in a polyamorist situation the son will be number 2. = He may be number two=20 > and he may not be number two - we are not privy to "the rest of the story= " about how the three have=20 > structured their interrelationship... >=20 > A consenting adult=2C acting in full knowledge of the situation=2C may fi= nd the "number two" status quite comfortable > and compatible with their wants and way of life... If that works - fine! >=20 > I have been in just such a relationship and it worked extremely well.=20 > I did not feel like I was a second class citizen in the situation.=20 > I had a say in anything that concerned "me" or "us" >=20 > We three were accepted by neighbors and the school where the kids attende= d classes... > ... the big issue was the legality of getting non-emergency medical treat= ment for the children > But between us three=2C things went well for eight years until one of us = decided the get married to another person. > (Which was okay also...) >=20 > Parting thought - wonder if the mother is tolerant of any LTA her son mig= ht get involved in=20 > - or -=20 > what if her son joined a commune (if any still exist) >=20 > My two cents worth on this particular article >=20 >=20 > Ystradyfodwg aka MrY > Dubitando ad veritatem venimus > [Through scepticism comes truth] >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l = From alanmacrobert@gmail.com Thu Sep 24 12:50:51 2009 Received: from mail-bw0-f207.google.com (mail-bw0-f207.google.com [209.85.218.207]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8OGooq6009957 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:50:50 -0400 Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so1385162bwz.26 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:50:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: alanmacrobert@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.25.66 with SMTP id y2mr3241465bkb.59.1253811046761; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:50:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Sender-Auth: beb6f440d44f8e5c Message-ID: From: alan7388 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dear Abby's take on poly X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:50:51 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:50:44 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:50:51 -0000 That same day, "Ask Amy" also had a fairly clueless answer to a poly question. I posted about both of them and included the addresses to write and clue them in: http://polyinthemedia.blogspot.com/2009/09/more-unhelpful-advice-columnists.html Alan M. From earthfather@cfnc.us Thu Sep 24 15:52:36 2009 Received: from vms173013pub.verizon.net (vms173013pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.13]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8OJpTqR021325 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:52:36 -0400 Received: from MVRLENOVO ([173.79.170.129]) by vms173013.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KQH00E2SR4FDX59@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net> for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:50:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "Michael Rios" To: References: Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-reply-to: Thread-index: Aco9Nzes5FKwQ3T0SwOMfK0dlN3sJAAGNgWA Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dear Abby's take on poly X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:52:37 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:50:42 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:52:37 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: uupoly-l-bounces+earthfather=cfnc.us@uupa.org > [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+earthfather=cfnc.us@uupa.org] On > Behalf Of alan7388 > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:51 PM > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dear Abby's take on poly > > That same day, "Ask Amy" also had a fairly clueless answer to > a poly question. I posted about both of them and included the > addresses to write and clue them in: > > http://polyinthemedia.blogspot.com/2009/09/more-unhelpful-advi > ce-columnists.html Amy is getting *slightly* more clueful, maybe. She could still use some feedback on this one, but at its core, it is an excellent response: Wednesday, September 23, 2009; 12:00 AM DEAR AMY: I work with a woman, "Patty," who is a married professional in her late 30s, attractive and outgoing, with two young children. Patty is friends with another co-worker, "Jon," also in his late 30s. He is a professional and is single, straight, very quiet and average looking. Patty and Jon are always together at work, and Jon spends a lot of time at Patty's house with her husband and children. Jon is a handy guy, and he has done several large renovation projects at Patty's house at no charge, and he often goes grocery shopping with her and her husband and kids. He regularly baby-sits for Patty's children when she and her husband want a night out, and he has even gone on vacation with Patty's family, including her parents. When people ask Patty about her relationship with Jon, it's always, "Oh, he's a great guy, and we're the best of friends." I can't imagine why a happily married woman would invite a man to participate in such intimate aspects of her life, and I'm interested in your opinion. Am I completely out of touch, or is this relationship very strange? -- Curious in Upstate New York DEAR CURIOUS: You are completely out of touch. There is a word for the sort of strange and newfangled relationship you describe. It's called "friendship." Some people -- whether married or single, straight or gay -- are capable of having loving, intimate, fulfilling friendships with others who don't share their gender or demographic. I hope this puts your mind at ease, so you can stop worrying about this relationship and get back to work. From greystone.house@pacbell.net Thu Sep 24 17:44:09 2009 Received: from smtp109.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (smtp109.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [67.195.14.39]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n8OLh2wW028579 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:44:09 -0400 Received: (qmail 34489 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2009 21:43:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO EMILYADMINPC) (greystone.house@75.41.122.241 with login) by smtp109.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Sep 2009 21:43:01 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: 5R27u8aswBBpj7bpT64pkD2Ps0wyCQQRizoy5HX6dcJETn0JDPRH2g-- X-YMail-OSG: O9ygaoEVM1kZYZceVRTVaPLo9tNHo1wG.24X9Alk8..4oOLnIX0BlQZLjXxabLkuG99ns2b2hYowl7G2fYMrgd3B8mGI2pLImXReVCWzdxfd2Ty8.NXvnCMd5HvuhuelkUztXQzCkVlrsTasYEnkI28cGFUyQ0Sq2Z1IZHmSBJp0gAi4B06g89M4QuA7BnJlZLOC7noQWlR6IjzRwzE4OOsa.gK6D2wjwktyxjHmX.Ewaz.N0t8- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <1F678F1AA92743049965994FA33A0BC6@EMILYADMINPC> From: "Emily M.-R. B." To: References: <3FD1F19D50534560BAFE456B55738B4E@kelly> In-Reply-To: <3FD1F19D50534560BAFE456B55738B4E@kelly> Organization: Greystone House MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dear Abby's take on poly X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:44:09 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:42:59 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:44:09 -0000 I have to wonder if part of the problem is the near-invisibility of stable, long-term, low/no-drama poly families? I rather doubt that Abby has ever heard of a family like that of one of my very dear friends, who has been married for a quarter of a century, been with her boyfriend for seven or eight years, is very close to his wife & somewhat of a presence in the lives of their children (all adult). She's also very close to her husband's girlfriend (almost a decade) and shares a business with her. Frankly, I dearly wish that my (currently) mono, classic-American-nuclear-family arrangement ran as smoothly as their poly family does. The sad part is that even if someone were to tell Abby about my friend's family, I have serious doubts whether she would believe it was true, let alone that it is far from unique. - Emily ----- Original Message ----- From: "Union Consult" > Should set the movement back at least a decade > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > DEAR ABBY: My 22-year-old son is involved with a 22-year-old girl who is > married. He has moved in with her, her husband and their 4-year-old son. > He > says he's happy with the arrangement. > I have tried to accept this even though I don't approve. I don't want to > alienate my son, but I see no good coming from this lifestyle. Abby, > please > help. -- DISGUSTED MOM IN HENDERSON, NEV. > > DEAR DISGUSTED MOM: You do not have to "accept" the arrangement, and as > your > son's mother you are entitled to tell him you don't approve and why. But > he > is over 21, and some lessons have to be learned the hard way. So remain > calm > and bide your time because, sooner or later, the husband's tolerance will > wear thin or your son will realize that he deserves to rate higher than > No. > 2. From anthony.roza@gmail.com Thu Sep 24 17:49:46 2009 Received: from mail-ew0-f220.google.com (mail-ew0-f220.google.com [209.85.219.220]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8OLnjLw029365 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:49:46 -0400 Received: by ewy20 with SMTP id 20so4775322ewy.20 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:49:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.50.66 with SMTP id y44mr942244web.203.1253828983282; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:49:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1F678F1AA92743049965994FA33A0BC6@EMILYADMINPC> References: <3FD1F19D50534560BAFE456B55738B4E@kelly> <1F678F1AA92743049965994FA33A0BC6@EMILYADMINPC> Message-ID: <5aaa462a0909241449k73410ca1q3e37f3a526295f96@mail.gmail.com> From: Roza Anthony To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dear Abby's take on poly X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:49:46 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:49:43 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:49:46 -0000 Or my friends (admittedly much younger), where the center and one leg of the V have about five years, and the center and the other leg two or so. I love watching the three of them together as all three of them are fairly physically affectionate, and the center often finds that both legs want attention at the same time. It's like watching a pile of puppies! Roza On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Emily M.-R. B. wrote: > I have to wonder if part of the problem is the near-invisibility of stable, > long-term, low/no-drama poly families? > > I rather doubt that Abby has ever heard of a family like that of one of my > very dear friends, who has been married for a quarter of a century, been > with her boyfriend for seven or eight years, is very close to his wife & > somewhat of a presence in the lives of their children (all adult). She's > also very close to her husband's girlfriend (almost a decade) and shares a > business with her. Frankly, I dearly wish that my (currently) mono, > classic-American-nuclear-family arrangement ran as smoothly as their poly > family does. > > The sad part is that even if someone were to tell Abby about my friend's > family, I have serious doubts whether she would believe it was true, let > alone that it is far from unique. > > - Emily > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Union Consult" > > > Should set the movement back at least a decade > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DEAR ABBY: My 22-year-old son is involved with a 22-year-old girl who is > > married. He has moved in with her, her husband and their 4-year-old son. > > He > > says he's happy with the arrangement. > > I have tried to accept this even though I don't approve. I don't want to > > alienate my son, but I see no good coming from this lifestyle. Abby, > > please > > help. -- DISGUSTED MOM IN HENDERSON, NEV. > > > > DEAR DISGUSTED MOM: You do not have to "accept" the arrangement, and as > > your > > son's mother you are entitled to tell him you don't approve and why. But > > he > > is over 21, and some lessons have to be learned the hard way. So remain > > calm > > and bide your time because, sooner or later, the husband's tolerance will > > wear thin or your son will realize that he deserves to rate higher than > > No. > > 2. > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From JasmineGld@aol.com Thu Sep 24 19:21:09 2009 Received: from imr-da05.mx.aol.com (imr-da05.mx.aol.com [205.188.105.147]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8ONK2fg002140 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:21:09 -0400 Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-da05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8ONJtRF000517 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:19:55 -0400 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id g.c30.63296efb (41811) for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:19:51 -0400 (EDT) From: JasmineGld@aol.com Message-ID: To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5379 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: JasmineGld@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dear Abby's take on poly X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:21:09 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:19:51 EDT X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:21:09 -0000 In a message dated 9/23/2009 8:34:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, union-consult@charter.net writes: > Should set the movement back at least a decade Why? Naysayers are nothing new. People have been saying the same kinds of things Dear Abby said and far worse for as long as polyamorous relationships have been around. In fact, "remain calm" is pretty good advice. If everyone would remain calm, that alone would solve a whole host of problems. Jasmine From suregriffin@hotmail.com Thu Sep 24 23:19:38 2009 Received: from bay0-omc2-s6.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s6.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.142]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8P3IVhS014888 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:19:38 -0400 Received: from BAY118-W31 ([207.46.8.194]) by bay0-omc2-s6.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:18:09 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [68.234.67.105] From: Sandra Griffin To: Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2009 03:18:09.0931 (UTC) FILETIME=[CEE5FDB0:01CA3D8E] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] more naysayers X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 03:19:38 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:18:10 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 03:19:38 -0000 =20 Dear Abby's response may not "set the movement back at least a decade" but articles like this one could possibly have that effect... http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2009/09/21/how-monogamous-me= n-can-rescue-civilization/=20 =20 =0A= _________________________________________________________________=0A= Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.=0A= http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tut= orial_QuickAdd_062009= From kb4wyr@fhrd.net Thu Sep 24 23:36:14 2009 Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n8P3Z8Wx016039 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:36:14 -0400 Received: (qmail 7507 invoked by uid 1006); 25 Sep 2009 03:35:07 -0000 Received: from kb4wyr@fhrd.net by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.2.5. Clear:SA:0(0.1/100.0):. Processed in 0.790757 secs); 25 Sep 2009 03:35:07 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=100.0 X-Spam-Level: Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.20) by -v with SMTP; 25 Sep 2009 03:35:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 7462 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2009 03:35:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO PRINTSERVER) (kb4wyr@70.41.93.230) by -v with SMTP; 25 Sep 2009 03:35:05 -0000 From: "Christine Heinsohn" To: References: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00ea01ca3d91$0501b270$0f051750$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Aco9jwsjM+kIlty+RYOTqIpq2PGDkgAAWhoQ Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] more naysayers X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 03:36:14 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:33:44 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 03:36:14 -0000 You know, Minx did a rant on this fellow during a recent Polyamory Weekly Podcast. What I found interesting about this is Fagan's total lack of understanding about how the folks practicing polyamory use the word. I think his co-opting of the language shows not how small our influence is, but how great the fear that polyamory might actually resonate with a large population. Throughout the excerpts that I heard the resonate theme was that polyamory nullified the effects of the established patriarchy. In essence he sees polyamory as a feminist movement. That Rocks! Christine Heinsohn Elmdale, Kansas Heart of the Flint Hills Aviation Hot Air Balloon Rides in "Conflict of Interest" Traveling Chef "Have Knives. Will Travel!" -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of Sandra Griffin Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:18 PM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: [UUPoly-L] more naysayers Dear Abby's response may not "set the movement back at least a decade" but articles like this one could possibly have that effect... http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2009/09/21/how-monogamous-men -can-rescue-civilization/ _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutori al_QuickAdd_062009 _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From kb4wyr@fhrd.net Thu Sep 24 23:41:06 2009 Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n8P3e0MK016732 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:41:06 -0400 Received: (qmail 15614 invoked by uid 1006); 25 Sep 2009 03:39:59 -0000 Received: from kb4wyr@fhrd.net by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.2.5. Clear:SA:0(0.1/100.0):. Processed in 0.794432 secs); 25 Sep 2009 03:39:59 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=100.0 X-Spam-Level: Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.23) by -v with SMTP; 25 Sep 2009 03:39:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 26461 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2009 03:39:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO PRINTSERVER) (kb4wyr@70.41.93.230) by -v with SMTP; 25 Sep 2009 03:39:57 -0000 From: "Christine Heinsohn" To: References: <00ea01ca3d91$0501b270$0f051750$@net> In-Reply-To: <00ea01ca3d91$0501b270$0f051750$@net> Message-ID: <00f101ca3d91$b34dc0d0$19e94270$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Aco9jwsjM+kIlty+RYOTqIpq2PGDkgAAWhoQAABFgcA= Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] more naysayers X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 03:41:06 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:38:37 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 03:41:06 -0000 Oh, and there was something about Fagan's information that I would like to know more about. He says that the polyamorous culture is spreading with the government help. Really, can someone explain that one to me? Christine Heinsohn Elmdale, Kansas Heart of the Flint Hills Aviation Hot Air Balloon Rides in "Conflict of Interest" Traveling Chef "Have Knives. Will Travel!" -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of Christine Heinsohn Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:34 PM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] more naysayers You know, Minx did a rant on this fellow during a recent Polyamory Weekly Podcast. What I found interesting about this is Fagan's total lack of understanding about how the folks practicing polyamory use the word. I think his co-opting of the language shows not how small our influence is, but how great the fear that polyamory might actually resonate with a large population. Throughout the excerpts that I heard the resonate theme was that polyamory nullified the effects of the established patriarchy. In essence he sees polyamory as a feminist movement. That Rocks! Christine Heinsohn Elmdale, Kansas Heart of the Flint Hills Aviation Hot Air Balloon Rides in "Conflict of Interest" Traveling Chef "Have Knives. Will Travel!" -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of Sandra Griffin Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:18 PM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: [UUPoly-L] more naysayers Dear Abby's response may not "set the movement back at least a decade" but articles like this one could possibly have that effect... http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2009/09/21/how-monogamous-men -can-rescue-civilization/ _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutori al_QuickAdd_062009 _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From opensheart@yahoo.com Fri Sep 25 01:14:02 2009 Received: from web38703.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38703.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.79]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id n8P5Ctah022587 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:14:02 -0400 Received: (qmail 49328 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Sep 2009 05:12:55 -0000 Message-ID: <248450.48804.qm@web38703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: s5c8atIVM1m33FYrBb.dUPm8aknFI14piBbHEYrWDuCJBb3SO7jL5gNHwUQOYBnIJdYZ.7L9d5eOofK6LRjWcgedSIuu6K2QafrcK2ljZA_p2Sy2OsZAlNyiLiFzjypcy6MjAMuBKWEUHRsT0bjJvcX.QSknX753oAaju_o.cMAwsfVoIOBsBFpjknkVXowf_3pwgyiFe.yjkRnIRqoBnfKP7MM7RmHJyXbeQoasJlUPaTNRBIhzR5S4gABFCap0I25tTzTH45c_AhWQx_7Q1jaH4rJr24FAcPp47faU2ZRgtZ7lkkTSGlk6xkkDJfA01K0YIDQfr_LzvXXmUhk8mB1gfh1jFxqLsqVEyybSbrGmRdzaKg-- Received: from [74.215.181.242] by web38703.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:12:55 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 From: Open _ To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: <00f101ca3d91$b34dc0d0$19e94270$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id n8P5Ctah022587 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] more naysayers X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 05:14:02 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:12:55 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 05:14:02 -0000 I believe the idea is that poly people are welfare cases. If they can't hold together a long therm monogamous marriage then they obviously can't hold anything else together like a decent steady job. So they all pile in together and live off welfare to survive. --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Christine Heinsohn wrote: > From: Christine Heinsohn > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] more naysayers > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 11:38 PM > Oh, and there was something about > Fagan's information that I would like to > know more about.  He says that the polyamorous culture > is spreading with the > government help.  Really, can someone explain that one > to me? > > Christine Heinsohn > Elmdale, Kansas > > Heart of the Flint Hills Aviation > Hot Air Balloon Rides in > "Conflict of Interest" > > Traveling Chef > "Have Knives. Will Travel!" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org > [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org] > On Behalf Of Christine > Heinsohn > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:34 PM > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] more naysayers > > You know, Minx did a rant on this fellow during a recent > Polyamory Weekly > Podcast. > > What I found interesting about this is Fagan's total lack > of understanding > about how the folks practicing polyamory use the > word.  I think his > co-opting of the language shows not how small our influence > is, but how > great the fear that polyamory might actually resonate with > a large > population.  Throughout the excerpts that I heard the > resonate theme was > that polyamory nullified the effects of the established > patriarchy.  In > essence he sees polyamory as a feminist movement.  > That Rocks! > > Christine Heinsohn > Elmdale, Kansas > > Heart of the Flint Hills Aviation > Hot Air Balloon Rides in > "Conflict of Interest" > > Traveling Chef > "Have Knives. Will Travel!" > > -----Original Message----- > From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org > [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org] > On Behalf Of Sandra > Griffin > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:18 PM > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Subject: [UUPoly-L] more naysayers > > > > > > > Dear Abby's response may not "set the movement back at > least a decade" > > but articles like this one could possibly have that > effect... > > http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2009/09/21/how-monogamous-men > -can-rescue-civilization/ > >     >          >            >   > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutori > al_QuickAdd_062009 > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From union-consult@charter.net Fri Sep 25 09:55:53 2009 Received: from mta11.charter.net (mta11.charter.net [216.33.127.80]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8PDtr81019538 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:55:53 -0400 Received: from imp09 ([10.20.200.9]) by mta11.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.01.00 201-2219-108-20080618) with ESMTP id <20090925135518.BWWO15884.mta11.charter.net@imp09> for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:55:18 -0400 Received: from kelly ([68.114.60.183]) by imp09 with smtp.charter.net id l1vJ1c00F3xCNCL051vJkR; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:55:18 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=KT9wmKBc4LEA:10 a=sG0ONlFRcKmq5cOZ8LkA:9 a=OAdOPBZmRWz0bSoOpooA:7 a=kbPckL9bY54PTHkNLYvDFcOnttgA:4 Message-ID: From: "Union Consult" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dear Abby article-reactions a request X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:55:53 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:55:16 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:55:53 -0000 I thought when I posted this, there would be an interesting exchange and there ahs been. That said, however, when you reply to a digest or post DO NOT include the entire post. Just a couple of lines to let us know what you are talking about and please DELETE the rest. Otherwise the entire digest including the original post and all responses are copied back to the list which is hundreds of unnecessary lines of text. Also, you noticed I changed the subject line in this post so you know right up front what it is about. Thanks. From mknd17@hotmail.com Fri Sep 25 12:22:17 2009 Received: from snt0-omc2-s14.snt0.hotmail.com (snt0-omc2-s14.snt0.hotmail.com [65.55.90.89]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8PGLBCj029547 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:22:17 -0400 Received: from SNT102-W62 ([65.55.90.72]) by snt0-omc2-s14.snt0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:20:50 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [76.127.51.114] From: Timothy McKee To: Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2009 16:20:50.0182 (UTC) FILETIME=[2563A260:01CA3DFC] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] FW: Jenny Block / Nightline X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:22:18 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:20:50 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:22:18 -0000 =20 My brother in law and I discussed this today. He is a conservative Baptist.= I am a middle of the road UU. =20 Tim =20 http//:www.star-telegram.com/189/story/1620437.html =20 =20 = From mknd17@hotmail.com Fri Sep 25 12:31:02 2009 Received: from snt0-omc2-s37.snt0.hotmail.com (snt0-omc2-s37.snt0.hotmail.com [65.55.90.112]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8PGTqOm030766 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:31:02 -0400 Received: from SNT102-W44 ([65.55.90.73]) by snt0-omc2-s37.snt0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:29:30 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [76.127.51.114] From: Timothy McKee To: Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2009 16:29:31.0017 (UTC) FILETIME=[5BD4BF90:01CA3DFD] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Problem with url X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:31:02 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:29:30 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:31:02 -0000 You may have trouble with the Jenny Block url. It worked okay forwarding to= my gmail account. Might need to omit http: =20 Tim = From JasmineGld@aol.com Fri Sep 25 12:39:26 2009 Received: from imr-ma02.mx.aol.com (imr-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.206.40]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8PGcKvJ031707 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:39:26 -0400 Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-ma02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8PGcAsV016122 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:38:10 -0400 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id g.c53.5787ba53 (39331) for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:38:07 -0400 (EDT) From: JasmineGld@aol.com Message-ID: To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5379 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: JasmineGld@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Corrected URL -- FW: Jenny Block / Nightline X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:39:30 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:38:07 EDT X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:39:30 -0000 http://www.star-telegram.com/189/story/1620437.html The colon was in the wrong spot. In a message dated 9/25/2009 12:22:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mknd17@hotmail.com writes: My brother in law and I discussed this today. He is a conservative Baptist. I am a middle of the road UU. Tim http//:www.star-telegram.com/189/story/1620437.html From JasmineGld@aol.com Fri Sep 25 13:37:08 2009 Received: from imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (imr-ma06.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.142]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8PHa29q003624 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:37:08 -0400 Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8PHa0b1024769 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:36:00 -0400 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id g.d59.49dede57 (39331) for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:35:56 -0400 (EDT) From: JasmineGld@aol.com Message-ID: To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5379 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: JasmineGld@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Jenny Block / Nightline X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:37:08 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:35:55 EDT X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:37:08 -0000 The entire two hours of the Nightline "Born to Cheat?" debate can be watched online in 10 segments. The debate was held in a mega-church. I caught part of the program as it aired last night. Jenny Block did a great job in the portion I saw. A comment board is available on the Nightline site, with close to 300 messages so far. Almost all of the messages are along the lines of "monogamy is the only way" because (1) "God/Bible said so" or (2) "people get hurt." I posted at 2am. http://abcnews.go.com/nightline Jasmine From ejjabla@comcast.net Fri Sep 25 15:11:01 2009 Received: from QMTA07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.64]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8PJ9spK009411 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:11:01 -0400 Received: from OMTA24.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.92]) by QMTA07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id l66W1c00A1zF43QA779poe; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:09:49 +0000 Received: from edddb5c91ad5a7 ([24.2.36.91]) by OMTA24.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id l7EF1c00P1xz6Eo8k7EGuP; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:14:16 +0000 Message-ID: <574D4225719C4FD8BC770D80DF51A365@edddb5c91ad5a7> From: "Ed Blanchette" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] FW: Jenny Block / Nightline X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:11:01 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:09:51 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:11:01 -0000 I'm curious, how did the discussion come out? I'm an ex Baptist (1st 20 yrs of life as an American Baptist, 2nd 20 as a Southern Baptist, last 37 as a UU). As a Baptist reading the Baptist's favorite book noted that having multiple wives were allowed in the Old Testament. And nowhere was it said it was it was sinful. Just seemed to disappear by the time of the New Testament (perhaps having more than one wife just got to be too expensive). Ed Blanchette Citrus Hts. (Sacramento County) California USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy McKee" To: Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:20 AM Subject: [UUPoly-L] FW: Jenny Block / Nightline > My brother in law and I discussed this today. He is a conservative > Baptist. I am a middle of the road UU. > > Tim > > From ejjabla@comcast.net Fri Sep 25 15:14:55 2009 Received: from QMTA15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.228]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8PJDnl2010051 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:14:55 -0400 Received: from OMTA10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.28]) by QMTA15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id l1qg1c0040cQ2SLAF7DfkA; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:13:39 +0000 Received: from edddb5c91ad5a7 ([24.2.36.91]) by OMTA10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id l7De1c00G1xz6Eo8W7Df3c; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:13:39 +0000 Message-ID: <71EB4C2D5EE54B4C808C1C2706061482@edddb5c91ad5a7> From: "Ed Blanchette" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Problem with url X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:14:56 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:13:41 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:14:56 -0000 I had to copy and paste the url, When pasting to Internet Explorer, it automatically added a "http". So I copy and pasted everything except the "http" and it worked OK. Ed Blanchette Citrus Hts. (Sacramento County) California USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy McKee" To: Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:29 AM Subject: [UUPoly-L] Problem with url > > You may have trouble with the Jenny Block url. It worked okay forwarding > to my gmail account. Might need to omit http: > > Tim From mknd17@hotmail.com Fri Sep 25 15:37:22 2009 Received: from snt0-omc2-s32.snt0.hotmail.com (snt0-omc2-s32.snt0.hotmail.com [65.55.90.107]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8PJaGbR011684 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:37:22 -0400 Received: from SNT102-W21 ([65.55.90.72]) by snt0-omc2-s32.snt0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:35:54 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [76.127.51.114] From: Timothy McKee To: Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <574D4225719C4FD8BC770D80DF51A365@edddb5c91ad5a7> References: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2009 19:35:54.0775 (UTC) FILETIME=[65DECA70:01CA3E17] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] FW: Jenny Block / Nightline X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:37:22 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:35:54 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:37:22 -0000 Ed: I live with my sister and brother in law so I have had to adjust some of wh= at I stand for to be comprehensible to their world view. I usually attend t= he Baptist Sunday School the days I go to the UU Church. (I don't drive rig= ht now and am dependent on them for a ride=2C so I accomodate them in their= faith a little bit.) =20 One of the things I did mention to Daniel today was the attack on the nucle= ar family by the late David Berg=2C who headed up the radical Jesus Freaks = Children of God organization that I was involved with in my early adult ye= ars. They did not do their polyamory very well=2C with it spilling over in= to sex with minors. Ostensible their worst years were between about 1975 an= d 1986 when they were primarily known as a sex cult. I have admitted in the= past on this forum that some of my views about polyamory arose out of my a= ssociation with the Children of God before things got too hairy. Fortunatel= y I left in 1973 with a woman who became my wife shortly thereafter. I have= sent a copy of ONE WIFE=2C by David Berg as the beginning of the foray awa= y from monogamy and into group marriage/polyamory to the polyamory collecti= on at Indiana University. =20 A few days ago I purchased a copy of THE SISTERS ANTIPODES=2C which was a = story of two men who swapped wives and in both instances they got two young= daughters. The story is written by one of the daughters and I think I wil= l probably find it somewhat of a cautionary tale about quads. =20 I probably have more conservative views than many about polyamory. My hope= for Jenny Block is that things do not implode for her and that she does no= t get burned out with all the advocacy work she does for the polyamory comm= unity. =20 Tim =20 > From: ejjabla@comcast.net > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Fri=2C 25 Sep 2009 12:09:51 -0700 > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] FW: Jenny Block / Nightline >=20 > I'm curious=2C how did the discussion come out? >=20 > I'm an ex Baptist (1st 20 yrs of life as an American Baptist=2C 2nd 20 as= a=20 > Southern Baptist=2C last 37 as a UU). As a Baptist reading the Baptist's= =20 > favorite book noted that having multiple wives were allowed in the Old=20 > Testament. And nowhere was it said it was it was sinful. Just seemed to=20 > disappear by the time of the New Testament (perhaps having more than one= =20 > wife just got to be too expensive). >=20 > Ed Blanchette > Citrus Hts. (Sacramento County) > California USA >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Timothy McKee" > To: > Sent: Friday=2C September 25=2C 2009 9:20 AM > Subject: [UUPoly-L] FW: Jenny Block / Nightline >=20 > > My brother in law and I discussed this today. He is a conservative=20 > > Baptist. I am a middle of the road UU. > > > > Tim > > > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l = From earthfather@cfnc.us Fri Sep 25 16:11:03 2009 Received: from vms173007pub.verizon.net (vms173007pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.7]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8PK9vQv014092 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:11:03 -0400 Received: from MVRLENOVO ([173.79.170.129]) by vms173007.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KQJ004MWMNM6Y00@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:09:23 -0500 (CDT) From: "Michael Rios" To: References: <574D4225719C4FD8BC770D80DF51A365@edddb5c91ad5a7> Message-id: <2140E7A5EEA54E46B8E1D36D730ABE1A@MVRLENOVO> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-reply-to: <574D4225719C4FD8BC770D80DF51A365@edddb5c91ad5a7> Thread-index: Aco+E/DgGt7HnUhVTnmGF1cAIPM+mwABYevg Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] FW: Jenny Block / Nightline X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:11:03 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:09:26 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:11:03 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: uupoly-l-bounces+earthfather=cfnc.us@uupa.org > [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+earthfather=cfnc.us@uupa.org] On > Behalf Of Ed Blanchette > > I'm curious, how did the discussion come out? > > I'm an ex Baptist (1st 20 yrs of life as an American Baptist, > 2nd 20 as a Southern Baptist, last 37 as a UU). As a Baptist > reading the Baptist's favorite book noted that having > multiple wives were allowed in the Old Testament. And > nowhere was it said it was it was sinful. Just seemed to > disappear by the time of the New Testament (perhaps having > more than one wife just got to be too expensive). It hadn't disappeared by then; it just doesn't get talked about, because the stories aren't about kings and other wealthy types who could *afford* more than one wife. Paul, in discussing the requirements to be a bishop, insists that candidates should have *one* wife-- clearly implying that others could have more. [1Tim.3:2] Michael Rios From dakinitara@tantrikapath.com Fri Sep 25 21:29:33 2009 Received: from vms173017pub.verizon.net (vms173017pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.17]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8Q1SQhf031455 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:29:33 -0400 Received: from HamsaPC ([72.95.55.23]) by vms173017.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KQK00DK71E9V9AA@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:27:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: From: "Tara Shakti-Ma" To: References: In-reply-to: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Jenny Block / Nightline X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 01:29:33 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:27:40 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 01:29:33 -0000 Here's a more direct link to the show = http://abcnews.go.com/nightline/faceoff I thought Jenny did great! Tara Shakti-Ma )O(=20 http://www.facebook.com/dakinitara.shaktima Love and Gratitude are the seeds of Joy. Grace flows freely when I bow = to All of Life. Join us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ExpansiveLoving/ - an = internationally serving on-line group for spiritually and new-paradigm = inclined poly-folk. =20 =A9 Copyright Tara Shakti-Ma 2009 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: JasmineGld@aol.com=20 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org=20 Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Jenny Block / Nightline The entire two hours of the Nightline "Born to Cheat?" debate can be =20 watched online in 10 segments. The debate was held in a mega-church. I = caught =20 part of the program as it aired last night. Jenny Block did a great = job in the=20 portion I saw.=20 =20 A comment board is available on the Nightline site, with close to 300 = messages so far. Almost all of the messages are along the lines of = "monogamy is =20 the only way" because (1) "God/Bible said so" or (2) "people get = hurt."=20 =20 I posted at 2am.=20 =20 http://abcnews.go.com/nightline =20 Jasmine=20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about = yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From JasmineGld@aol.com Sat Sep 26 11:57:05 2009 Received: from imr-ma02.mx.aol.com (imr-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.206.40]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8QFtwvR013830 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:57:05 -0400 Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-ma02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8QFto7P010534 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:55:50 -0400 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id g.bdf.5c441444 (29672) for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:55:46 -0400 (EDT) From: JasmineGld@aol.com Message-ID: To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5379 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: JasmineGld@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] New Testament and polygamy X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:57:05 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:56:40 EDT X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:57:05 -0000 In a message dated 9/25/2009 3:11:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ejjabla@comcast.net writes: > multiple wives were allowed in the Old > Testament. And nowhere was it said it was it was sinful. Just seemed to > disappear by the time of the New Testament (perhaps having more than one > wife just got to be too expensive). I just learned something fascinating, indirectly from the Nightline comments. The part I already knew: the instruction in 1 Timothy and Titus prohibiting multiple wives is directed to the elders or deacons -- church leadership. It does not apply to general followers of the church. The part I just learned: the "one wife" restriction had the effect of protecting the church from a takeover of all the church leadership by the wealthiest men. Wealthy men could afford multiple wives. Poor men could afford only one wife at most. So the "one wife" restriction was a double win for the church. It ensured that men of different income levels would be needed to fill leadership roles, and it ensured that any wealthy man who made the cut was sincerely dedicated to the church enough to forego willingly his right to multiple wives. This had the effect of weeding out wealthy men who were looking for power, without saying it out loud. Not at all unlike the maneuvers churches use today to keep an unwanted person off a committee without telling them to their face. Of course, the rule also weeded out sincerely dedicated men who already had multiple wives, or needed/chose to marry a second wife for any of a number of reasons that made good sense two thousand years ago. And I'm not even touching the issue of women in leadership -- too complex for this discussion. Nevertheless, the "one wife for elders" rule can be understood as a social justice action addressing classism. Or as simple protection for the integrity of church leadership, in which addressing classism was an unintended benefit. Jasmine From earthfather@cfnc.us Sat Sep 26 12:33:06 2009 Received: from vms173009pub.verizon.net (vms173009pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.9]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8QGVsnR016683 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 12:33:06 -0400 Received: from MVRLENOVO ([173.79.170.129]) by vms173009.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KQL0070N782M090@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net> for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:31:20 -0500 (CDT) From: "Michael Rios" To: References: Message-id: <2A68A3009E7D4EC99435BA29C5CC0F1E@MVRLENOVO> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-reply-to: Thread-index: Aco+wgOxudVf43NfSjeGEkTXcYlPZQAAyAsQ Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] New Testament and polygamy X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:33:06 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 12:31:19 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:33:06 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From:JasmineGld@aol.com > > I just learned something fascinating, indirectly from the > Nightline comments. The part I already knew: the instruction > in 1 Timothy and Titus prohibiting multiple wives is > directed to the elders or deacons -- church leadership. It > does not apply to general followers of the church. > > The part I just learned: the "one wife" restriction had the > effect of protecting the church from a takeover of all the > church leadership by the wealthiest men. Wealthy men could > afford multiple wives. Poor men could afford only one wife > at most. So the "one wife" restriction was a double win for > the church. It ensured that men of different income levels > would be needed to fill leadership roles, and it ensured that > any wealthy man who made the cut was sincerely dedicated to > the church enough to forego willingly his right to multiple > wives. This had the effect of weeding out wealthy men who > were looking for power, without saying it out loud. Not at > all unlike the maneuvers churches use today to keep an > unwanted person off a committee without telling them to their face. > > Nevertheless, the "one wife for elders" rule can be > understood as a social justice action addressing classism. Or > as simple protection for the integrity of church leadership, > in which addressing classism was an unintended benefit. There was another factor as well. The early church's view of marriage was that it was a "necessary evil". Paul at one point famously said that it is "Better to marry than to burn." (burn = be tortured). Hardly a ringing endorsement of the institution. At another point, Paul recommends staying unmarried, because an unmarried man can spend his energy trying to please God, but a married man spends all his energy trying to please his wife! :-) (This also gives an interesting perspective on the power that women *did* have, even in a patriarchal culture.) So having a wife was seen as taking a lot of a man's time, and someone with more than one wife would be *way* too busy to be of much use as a church official. Michael Rios From mknd17@hotmail.com Sat Sep 26 13:17:30 2009 Received: from snt0-omc2-s16.snt0.hotmail.com (snt0-omc2-s16.snt0.hotmail.com [65.55.90.91]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8QHGNsZ020100 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 13:17:30 -0400 Received: from SNT102-W52 ([65.55.90.72]) by snt0-omc2-s16.snt0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:16:03 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [76.127.51.114] From: Timothy McKee To: Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Sep 2009 17:16:03.0251 (UTC) FILETIME=[068B9830:01CA3ECD] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Marriage and Ministry X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:17:30 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 13:16:02 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:17:30 -0000 Some of my views about ministry were partly fashioned by Levi Dowling's spu= rious gospel THE AQUARIAN GOSPEL OF JESUS THE CHIRIST. If I recall correct= ly in that particular book the supreme temptation of Jesus was regarding ma= rriage. There is the idea also expressed in the New Testament that if you g= ive up anything for the sake of the Kingdom of God you get back a hundredfo= ld. The idea of giving up marriage reminds me of the saying of Christ "the= re are some who make themselves eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom of God.= " I do not think he meant for this to be taken literally as some have beli= eved throughout history. =20 You may recall in a post yesterday that I mentioned David Berg's letter ONE= WIFE as being one of his first letters to move his flock away from monogam= y. It was taken from the parable of the five wise virgins who had oil in t= heir lamps and thus were prepared to meet the bridegroom when he came. Berg= thus conflated polygamy with monogamy and tried to teach us that loyalty t= o the group should supercede loyalty to our spouse if we had one. As some o= f you know when group marriage failed at the Oneida Community the members w= ere fairly quick to resort to monogamy. I personally believed at the time I= was in the Children of God that I would have a more stable marriage if I b= ecame an independent disciple thus diminishing the group's authority over m= yself and my spouse. Thus=2C we declared our independence shortly before ou= r marriage in October 1973. We informally severed ties completely in the su= mmer of 1976. =20 Tim =