From dakinitara@tantrikapath.com Sun Aug 1 09:13:49 2010 Received: from vms173005pub.verizon.net (vms173005pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.5]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o71DDF6O000466 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 09:13:49 -0400 Received: from HamsaPC ([unknown] [72.95.50.100]) by vms173005.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0L6H00HUE6139L96@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 08:12:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <76DAE68BEB914EFA826981B1237CBA0E@HamsaPC> From: "Tara Shakti-Ma" To: References: <68032.96334.qm@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <000001cb2d44$dc698500$953c8f00$@net> In-reply-to: <000001cb2d44$dc698500$953c8f00$@net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18197 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Need help I need advice X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:13:49 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:12:38 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:13:49 -0000 Hi Christine: I can empathize with your concerns and your upset over what sounds like = massive changes. The bottom line though really is that when someone has = their mind dead set on something, whether we agree or not, the most = honoring thing we can do (once we've expressed our views) for *everyone* = involved, is to step back and allow them to face the consequences of = their chooses head on, on their own. I know there are kids involved = too....and in general kids are resilient....particularly when the adults = in the picture don't inflame a difficult or transitional situation even = more with their own "stuff". =20 Now maybe here comes the tougher part. While you may have been involved = in the raising of these children for much of their lives, and in theory = (since you mentioned you have not been named legal guardians on paper in = the event both parents die for some reason) you are their god-parent, = ultimately legally you have no standing. I believe only the father = would have any legal right to pursue custody issues, and - perhaps - if = needed be, any extended family blood relatives who feel concerns that = their existing relationship will remain intact. And lets think about = this a bit further. Have you ever been involved in or witnessed the = absolute mental and emotional carnage that can result from a legal or = child services process? These processes may present to be about "the = best interest of the child", but from what I've seen in most contested = cases the children become the victims....the guinea pigs in a way. = It's usually all about the adults and their resentments, egos and = wanting to make the other wrong. It is *not* in the best interest of = the children to go to court just to argue over details that can = generally be worked out by mature, clear thinking adults. It's not in = the best interest of the children for people other than the legal = parents to get involved in custody cases, unless there is truly gross = negligence or abuse involved. All it does is set the kids up to be = interviewed by a court appointed "therapist", and trust me...there's a = reason the only job they have is with the court. (I've seen some really = ridiculous things happen when things get that far into "the system".) = It sets them up to have to come in to talk to a judge....a total = stranger. It sets them up to feel torn between a bunch of adults, when = in reality all they really want at such a point of transition is = stability and to know they are loved. It sets the parents up to = abdicate their rightful parental "control" and responsibility and = free-choice decisions to the government...aka, a judge....who may or may = not be in a good mood that day...and from whom once you are embroiled = with is virtually impossible to get released from until the kids are at = the age of legal maturity. You cannot save the children from what may = come next. The very best thing you can do right now is try to find that = cool, calm place within, and go hang out in there for an extended period = of time, until you feel you can maintain that peacefulness...which leads = to a clear thinking mind. I clear thinking mind, rooted in *truly* good = intentions, generally makes very good choices. A lesson that's been big = for me lately is to realize that change happens whether we like it or = not. There's very little use in fighting the tide. I know this may = sound counter-intuitive in the moment but perhaps even be grateful that = this woman was weeded out of your tribe (because clearly she's looking = for change....big change), and it just happens to involve children = you've grown close to. But to insert yourself in the situation beyond = what's being invited at this point, is likely going to promote further = alienation from those children and - most influentially - their mom. If = you attempt to do so legally, well.....way even more so. I've been a = child advocate and I've been through my own child custody processes. If = at all possible, it's best when the legal parents come to some sort of = workable agreement, get it on paper, get it signed by a judge and then = get on with the business of life. =20 I totally understand the distress you feel about your tribe being pulled = apart and the apparent lack of good will on the part of the new = interloping lover....trust me....I currently have a lover who is way = into "more" mode and is not at all looking back to see how those new = relationships are affecting the quality of his emotional availability, = his ability to be fully present, etc. I could go on and on, but suffice = it to say I feel totally marginalized and at this point I feel like I'm = standing with my foot stuck in the rail switches, watching the train = that's going to pancake me coming right at me full tilt. So I = understand the angst and distress that unwanted change can cause. That = being said, I totally agree with Jasmine that at this point your focus = should probably be less on children who you have no legal standing with, = and more on how to keep cordial channels of communication open with the = mom, and being an objective supportive presence to the kids. (That = means use any time you have with them for bonding and enjoying each = other, *not* discussing the pros and cons of one household over the = other, or interrogating the kids about what's happening with mom and the = new lover, etc., etc.) While it may all look very scary right now, with = thoughts you will no longer be in the children's lives as you would = like, it is possible that if everyone cooperates in bringing the = emotionality of it all down, and on heightening the intention (and = actions) for cordial collaboration, the chances of a reasonably = acceptable outcome are going to be higher; in bring out the better = intentions in everyone and in truly serving the best interests of the = children. I wish you the best: Tara Shakti-Ma )O(=20 http://www.facebook.com/Tara.ShaktiMa.Dakini =20 * Join us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ExpansiveLoving/ - An = internationally serving on-line group for spiritually and new-paradigm = inclined poly-folk. We also have a companion group by the same name on = Facebook. =20 * New England Area Polyamory Network at = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEAPN/ - Serving as a central resource for = poly-folk in and around the New England area...also with a companion = group on Facebook. =A9 Copyright Tara Shakti-Ma 2010 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Christine Heinsohn=20 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:33 AM Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Need help I need advice Rev Mel, There were no tribal rules regarding New Loves being permitted or = screened. Husband has been around the entire time and protesting the situation = as being unhealthy. The "lady" has not altered any of her behavior = regarding new love in spite of input from tribe members.=20 Not sure rules would have prevented anything like this. As the "lady" = is determined to maintain the new love no matter what. The "lady" also = asserts that everyone elses observations are wrong. What I need is advice as to how I can make sure the legal system is = focused on the kids needs and scrutinizes the parenting of the custodial = parent and her attachments. Any idea? Christine From MAILER-DAEMON@msb.ernest-doss.org Sun Aug 1 09:15:05 2010 Received: from cmsmail01.mx.net (cmsmail01.mx.net [165.212.10.21]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o71DEWos001009 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 09:15:05 -0400 Received: from cmsmail01.cms.usa.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by cmsmail01.mx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F4B93242DA for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 13:14:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from Internal [Internal] by cmsmail01.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer C8.MAIN.3.66S); Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:14:00 -0000 From: "Kathleen Haynie" To: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (C8.MAIN.3.66S) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <458oHaNoa7974T01.1280668440@cmsmail01.cms.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o71DEWos001009 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Need help I need advice X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: NoFwd@cmsmail01.mx.net, uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:15:06 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:14:00 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:15:06 -0000 I will be away from my office and on vacation from July 30 through August 15th. If you need assistance, please contact my associate, Vonda Johnson, vonda_johnson@hotmail.com. Best, Kathleen C. Haynie, Ph.D. Director, Haynie Research and Evaluation b: 609.466.2990 c: 609.273.8173 ____________________________________________________________________ From les.addison@gmail.com Tue Aug 3 13:16:36 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f175.google.com (mail-wy0-f175.google.com [74.125.82.175]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o73HGZxh013802 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:16:36 -0400 Received: by wyb38 with SMTP id 38so4915750wyb.20 for ; Tue, 03 Aug 2010 10:16:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.141.132 with SMTP id m4mr6770074wbu.65.1280855793579; Tue, 03 Aug 2010 10:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.183.149 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Les Addison To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Bay Area UUPA gathering, Saturday, August 28 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:16:36 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:16:33 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:16:36 -0000 At PCD, a group of UU polys met for dinner and established a Bay Area chapter of Unitarian-Universalists for Polyamory Awareness. We will be holding a backyard bbq on Saturday, August 28 from noon to 4 at my home in East Palo Alto (rides from California Ave. CalTrain stop can be arranged). This event is open to polyamorous UUs, UUs who are interested in polyamory, and polys who are interested in Unitarian-Universalism, and our partners. I'll provide a grill, some drinks, and basics ranging from napkins and plates to ketchup and buns. Please bring something to grill and something to share. RSVP for address/directions From MAILER-DAEMON@msb.ernest-doss.org Tue Aug 3 13:17:56 2010 Received: from cmsmail02.mx.net (cmsmail02.mx.net [165.212.10.22]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o73HHMiO014279 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:17:56 -0400 Received: from cmsmail02.cms.usa.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by cmsmail02.mx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED9AA17C281 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2010 17:16:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from Internal [Internal] by cmsmail02.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer C8.MAIN.3.67U); Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:16:51 -0000 From: "Kathleen Haynie" To: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (C8.MAIN.3.67U) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <231oHcRqz4000T02.1280855811@cmsmail02.cms.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o73HHMiO014279 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Bay Area UUPA gathering, Saturday, August 28 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: NoFwd@cmsmail02.mx.net, uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:17:56 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:16:51 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:17:56 -0000 I will be away from my office and on vacation from July 30 through August 15th. If you need assistance, please contact my associate, Vonda Johnson, vonda_johnson@hotmail.com. Best, Kathleen C. Haynie, Ph.D. Director, Haynie Research and Evaluation b: 609.466.2990 c: 609.273.8173 ____________________________________________________________________ From gaylenwoof@yahoo.com Wed Aug 4 12:28:16 2010 Received: from web53101.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web53101.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.49.51]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o74GRgpt014062 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 12:28:16 -0400 Received: (qmail 24746 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Aug 2010 16:27:42 -0000 Message-ID: <272984.24530.qm@web53101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 7yL3To0VM1mj.RxeRmj6A5xCatemX6CQD11qe.z0JXKfJqI jU9K41_t6vc.MswfB8FHNQb8Gy2QExkSFLrR8yBSfIANG8smlUAx1wtsPpyT NvTA1SEOKAAycQHJgFqsnlFWRgcHPXzjCNSOdaeLDewfFoCVwbPIjL4J6vNZ Z4ifjXoG9ZhiW85RAyB_9z0qGN.Rg9Ei4JKO7h99KRUBAFAfXCc1vnAG53l8 lvZfzIKy21Zh4nJm6OY6_v7zcxn.hyYnlqrTNQZQQfKSQKA4YX3_qPaOs4lq jkVEuQUurTW2v8M1ipPTZyWkWSAE6z5Un3aXHjgA6LVONAD2sVMwQz9GHyDQ 1mXxK1APPI6trAkFIDS4xqoprCLnTv_0- Received: from [131.123.195.73] by web53101.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 09:27:42 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.3.2 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 From: Gaylen Moore To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Sexual Rights as Human Rights X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 16:28:17 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 09:27:42 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 16:28:17 -0000 I need some help writing a report!!! Please let me hear your thoughts! =A0 On September 23 the Woodhull Freedom Foundation (WFF) will be releasing the= "State of Sexual Freedom Annual Report," and I have been asked to write a = section of the report. My portion of the report is a section called "Sexual= Rights as Human Rights." I've already written some stuff related to this t= opic (which is what caught the attention of the WFF in the first place), bu= t my contribution is supposed to be around 5000 words, which is more substa= ntial than anything I've written on this topic so far. =A0 My section of the report will be best if I can present the latest insights = from a wide diversity of sex-related lifestyles, and ideally I would like t= o be able to include a variety of personal accounts provided by real people= who live "out there on the frontier," so to speak. I'd also like to hear y= our own views on the subject of sex, as it relates to human rights more gen= erally. So I am asking for your help. Any thoughts you have on this topic m= ay be valuable, but here are a few specific examples of ways you may be abl= e to help. =A0 1. Personal stories that highlight ways in which your own lives have been a= ffected by sexual freedom, or lack thereof. (Brushes with the law, social s= tigmas, etc.) I will, of course, ensure total confidentiality. =A0 2. Your own perspectives and philosophical insights on why your sexual life= style should (or should not) be considered a "human right." (e.g., are sexu= al preferences best thought of as rights, or privileges, or something else?= ) =A0 3. If you have expertise in science, philosophy, history, sociology, art, e= tc. that you believe might offer insight into this topic, please speak up! = Or if you know of web links, books, articles, etc. where I might find insig= hts, please share them. =A0 For an example of something I've written on this topic, and for more info a= bout the WFF, you can look here: =A0 http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-17712-Cleveland-Open-Relationships-Exami= ner~y2009m10d29-Sexual-freedom-as-a-fundamental-human-right --- On Wed, 8/4/10, uupoly-l-request@uupa.org w= rote: From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 2 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Date: Wednesday, August 4, 2010, 12:00 PM Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to =A0=A0=A0 uupoly-l@uupa.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit =A0=A0=A0 http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to =A0=A0=A0 uupoly-l-request@uupa.org You can reach the person managing the list at =A0=A0=A0 uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." Today's Topics: =A0=A0=A01. Bay Area UUPA gathering, Saturday, August 28 (Les Addison) =A0=A0=A02. Re: Bay Area UUPA gathering, Saturday, August 28 (Kathleen Hayn= ie) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:16:33 -0700 From: Les Addison Subject: [UUPoly-L] Bay Area UUPA gathering, Saturday, August 28 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: =A0=A0=A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 At PCD, a group of UU polys met for dinner and established a Bay Area chapter of Unitarian-Universalists for Polyamory Awareness. We will be holding a backyard bbq on Saturday, August 28 from noon to 4 at my home in East Palo Alto (rides from California Ave. CalTrain stop can be arranged). This event is open to polyamorous UUs, UUs who are interested in polyamory, and polys who are interested in Unitarian-Universalism, and our partners. I'll provide a grill, some drinks, and basics ranging from napkins and plates to ketchup and buns.=A0 Please bring something to grill and somethin= g to share. RSVP for address/directions ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:16:51 -0000 From: "Kathleen Haynie" Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Bay Area UUPA gathering, Saturday, August 28 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: <231oHcRqz4000T02.1280855811@cmsmail02.cms.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 I will be away from my office and on vacation from July 30 through August 15th.=A0 If you need assistance, please contact my associate, Vonda Johnson= , vonda_johnson@hotmail.com.=A0=20 Best, Kathleen C. Haynie, Ph.D. Director, Haynie Research and Evaluation b: 609.466.2990 c: 609.273.8173 ____________________________________________________________________ =A0=A0=A0 ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 2 *************************************** =0A=0A=0A From kyttewynpeny@gmail.com Wed Aug 4 13:21:52 2010 Received: from mail-fx0-f47.google.com (mail-fx0-f47.google.com [209.85.161.47]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o74HLpEp017635 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 13:21:52 -0400 Received: by fxm12 with SMTP id 12so2857998fxm.20 for ; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 10:21:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.144.131 with SMTP id o3mr440848hba.90.1280942507753; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 10:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.239.154.18 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 10:21:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <272984.24530.qm@web53101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <272984.24530.qm@web53101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: Barbara Allen To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Sexual Rights as Human Rights X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 17:21:55 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 12:21:47 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 17:21:55 -0000 Gaylen, I am acquainted with several people and blogs who might be able to help you out with what you are looking for. You can contact them via their blogs at: www.aagblog.com www.thebeautifulkind.com (who has been in the news recently for losing her job due to her sexual life.) www.heidianderson.com www.essin-em.com www.maybemaimed.com www.ropecast.com twistedmonk.blogspot.com www.mistressmatisse.com Only a few of them know me personally, so name dropping me probably won't get you far! LOL! However, they are fabulous writers and people who do believe that sexual freedom is a human right. :) Oh, and I guess this is me delurking here. *waves* -Babs On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Gaylen Moore wrote: > I need some help writing a report!!! Please let me hear your thoughts! > > On September 23 the Woodhull Freedom Foundation (WFF) will be releasing t= he > "State of Sexual Freedom Annual Report," and I have been asked to write a > section of the report. My portion of the report is a section called "Sexu= al > Rights as Human Rights." I've already written some stuff related to this > topic (which is what caught the attention of the WFF in the first place), > but my contribution is supposed to be around 5000 words, which is more > substantial than anything I've written on this topic so far. > > My section of the report will be best if I can present the latest insight= s > from a wide diversity of sex-related lifestyles, and ideally I would like= to > be able to include a variety of personal accounts provided by real people > who live "out there on the frontier," so to speak. I'd also like to hear > your own views on the subject of sex, as it relates to human rights more > generally. So I am asking for your help. Any thoughts you have on this to= pic > may be valuable, but here are a few specific examples of ways you may be > able to help. > > 1. Personal stories that highlight ways in which your own lives have been > affected by sexual freedom, or lack thereof. (Brushes with the law, socia= l > stigmas, etc.) I will, of course, ensure total confidentiality. > > 2. Your own perspectives and philosophical insights on why your sexual > lifestyle should (or should not) be considered a "human right." (e.g., ar= e > sexual preferences best thought of as rights, or privileges, or something > else?) > > 3. If you have expertise in science, philosophy, history, sociology, art, > etc. that you believe might offer insight into this topic, please speak u= p! > Or if you know of web links, books, articles, etc. where I might find > insights, please share them. > > For an example of something I've written on this topic, and for more info > about the WFF, you can look here: > > > http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-17712-Cleveland-Open-Relationships-Exa= miner~y2009m10d29-Sexual-freedom-as-a-fundamental-human-right > > --- On Wed, 8/4/10, uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > wrote: > > > From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 2 > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Wednesday, August 4, 2010, 12:00 PM > > > Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to > uupoly-l@uupa.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Bay Area UUPA gathering, Saturday, August 28 (Les Addison) > 2. Re: Bay Area UUPA gathering, Saturday, August 28 (Kathleen Haynie) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:16:33 -0700 > From: Les Addison > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Bay Area UUPA gathering, Saturday, August 28 > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 > > At PCD, a group of UU polys met for dinner and established a Bay Area > chapter of Unitarian-Universalists for Polyamory Awareness. > > We will be holding a backyard bbq on Saturday, August 28 from noon to 4 a= t > my home in East Palo Alto (rides from California Ave. CalTrain stop can b= e > arranged). > > This event is open to polyamorous UUs, UUs who are interested in polyamor= y, > and polys who are interested in Unitarian-Universalism, and our partners. > > I'll provide a grill, some drinks, and basics ranging from napkins and > plates to ketchup and buns. Please bring something to grill and somethin= g > to share. > > RSVP for address/directions > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:16:51 -0000 > From: "Kathleen Haynie" > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Bay Area UUPA gathering, Saturday, August 28 > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Message-ID: <231oHcRqz4000T02.1280855811@cmsmail02.cms.usa.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 > > I will be away from my office and on vacation from July 30 through August > 15th. If you need assistance, please contact my associate, Vonda Johnson= , > vonda_johnson@hotmail.com. > > Best, > > Kathleen C. Haynie, Ph.D. > Director, Haynie Research and Evaluation > > b: 609.466.2990 > c: 609.273.8173 > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 2 > *************************************** > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From dpagano@igc.org Wed Aug 4 14:30:08 2010 Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o74IU7e4020820 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:30:08 -0400 Received: from [209.86.224.66] (helo=wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ogij7-0007Qa-UU; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 14:30:05 -0400 Received: from 66.92.3.107 by webmail.c.earthlink.net with HTTP; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:30:05 -0400 Message-ID: <6432013.1280946605550.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Darlene Pagano To: Live Oak elist , FUCO elist , CoCo , pachamama local , UU Poly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 39a82346d7ceb269f84080ff3e30f22c696ede161232d0ce98718a69cfaa7fcf350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.66 Subject: [UUPoly-L] LGBT movement and Racial Justice: the essential link X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: Darlene Pagano , uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 18:30:19 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:30:05 -0400 (EDT) X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 18:30:19 -0000 While we here in CA are awaiting the court decision on the constitutionality of the Prop 8 electoral vote, I thought you would like to see this video we just put out at the Applied Research Center (place where I work, arc.org). You know that whichever way the decision goes, the news media is going to jump on the angle of *what do African Americans think of this* *what does the Latino community say about this* Setting aside their utterly cynical *reporting* from communities of color whom they are only turning to on this issue in hopes of airing conflict, anger and some possibly photogenic mud-sliinging (how about making sure the opinions of folks in these communities are sought out on ALL public issues) they make the continual mistake that PoC communities are not part of LGBTQ communities as well. How basic a point can you MISS than that no one has only one identity. In any case, while waiting for the news, enjoy the short video and pass it on. Darlene visit the website of ColorLines magazine The national newsmagazine on race and politics www.colorlines.com From dpagano@igc.org Wed Aug 4 14:30:57 2010 Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o74IUvjc021140 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:30:57 -0400 Received: from [209.86.224.66] (helo=wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ogijx-0008TB-22; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 14:30:57 -0400 Received: from 66.92.3.107 by webmail.c.earthlink.net with HTTP; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:30:56 -0400 Message-ID: <23811234.1280946656675.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Darlene Pagano To: Live Oak elist , FUCO elist , CoCo , pachamama local , UU Poly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 39a82346d7ceb269f84080ff3e30f22c696ede161232d0ce189a2d901767a3b3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.66 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Apologies, I forget the LINK X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: Darlene Pagano , uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 18:30:58 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:30:56 -0400 (EDT) X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 18:30:58 -0000 http://colorlines.com/archives/2010/08/video_building_alliances_betwe_1.html -----Original Message----- >From: Darlene Pagano >Sent: Aug 4, 2010 2:30 PM >To: Live Oak elist , FUCO elist , CoCo , pachamama local , UU Poly >Subject: LGBT movement and Racial Justice: the essential link > >While we here in CA are awaiting the court decision on the constitutionality of the Prop 8 electoral vote, I thought you would like to see this video we just put out at the Applied Research Center (place where I work, arc.org). > >You know that whichever way the decision goes, the news media is going to jump on the angle of *what do African Americans think of this* *what does the Latino community say about this* Setting aside their utterly cynical *reporting* from communities of color whom they are only turning to on this issue in hopes of airing conflict, anger and some possibly photogenic mud-sliinging (how about making sure the opinions of folks in these communities are sought out on ALL public issues) they make the continual mistake that PoC communities are not part of LGBTQ communities as well. > >How basic a point can you MISS than that no one has only one identity. > >In any case, while waiting for the news, enjoy the short video and pass it on. > >Darlene > >visit the website of >ColorLines magazine >The national newsmagazine on race and politics >www.colorlines.com visit the website of ColorLines magazine The national newsmagazine on race and politics www.colorlines.com From RickL@TakomaDigital.com Wed Aug 4 19:07:51 2010 Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o74N7pql000710 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 19:07:51 -0400 Received: from [96.231.169.209] (helo=[192.168.1.4]) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ogn3v-0005IY-H6 for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 19:07:51 -0400 Message-ID: <4C59F2D1.1080003@TakomaDigital.com> From: Rick Lohmeyer User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) To: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-ELNK-Trace: e0ca8c4b849dd3e9cd0bd31e96902ac69ef193a6bfc3dd48fff7e00d5471932cea3f52e93ccebf5a0cdf93a589ab4c3c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 96.231.169.209 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Sexual rights as human rights, long post X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: RickL@TakomaDigital.com, uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 23:07:52 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 19:08:01 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 23:07:52 -0000 Gaylen, Thanks for asking for information. I like your approach, that is, asking for personal stories to illustrate the state of sexual rights in America. Anyone on this list is sure to have a story to share about the topic. For myself, I am sure that my being openly poly played a factor in a brouhaha at the UU church I used to belong to, a very painful experience for me and my wife. In that midst of that problem I found myself saying to people, "If you have a problem with the Chesapeake Polyamory Network meeting here at church, then that is a wake up call for you and your marriage. Poly is no threat for people who are in secure, honest and loving marriages, and if you feel threatened I suggest you find a good counselor or marriage education program to help you resolve your insecurity." I can't say it helped, though. I now go to another church where I feel welcomed, poly and all. Sadly, our denomination, like other liberal religious denominations, is very good at advocating for marriage equality, but not at all helpful in providing support to people after they go to the altar to exchange their vows. I just did a quick survey of 30 congregations in the Washington DC area and of those, only 4 provide any meaningful marriage or relationship support activities, and those four are small and isolated efforts serving just a few in the congregation. All are open to LGBTI people, however. We do have a UU curricula for relationship support under the Tapestry of Faith program, called Principled Commitment, based on the UU Principles, which is an 11 week, two hours per week discussion/seminar deal for committed couples, regardless of their legal status or their orientation. You can find more at: http://www.uua.org/religiouseducation/curricula/tapestryfaith/principledcommitment/index.shtml There are other resources I would point you to, however, that may help in providing a larger perspective. Here are two I consider the most important: The Valencia Declaration and the World Health Organization working definitions. There are others that are quite similar. I include the text of both; sorry for the long post. Rick Lohmeyer The XIII World Congress of Sexology Valencia Declaration on Sexual Rights http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/ECE5/was_declaration_of_sexual_righ.html (This is the Magnus Hirschfeld site, with other information on sexual rights) At the XIII World Congress of Sexology in Valencia, Spain, June 1997, the following declaration was approved. We, the participants of the XIII World Congress of Sexology, declare that: Sexuality is a changing and dynamic dimension of humanity. It is constructed through the interaction between the individual and social structures. It is present throughout the life cycle, harmonizing identity and creating and /or strengthening interpersonal bonds. Sexual pleasure, including autoeroticism, is a source of physical, psychological, intellectual and spiritual well-being. It is associated with a conflict-free and anxiety-free experience of sexuality, allowing, therefore, social and personal development. We hereby urge that societies create the conditions to satisfy the needs for the full development of the individual and respect the following SEXUAL RIGHTS: The right to freedom, which excludes all forms of sexual coercion, exploitation and abuse at any time and in all situations in life. The struggle against violence is a social priority. All children should be desired and loved. The right to autonomy, integrity and safety of the body. This right encompasses control and enjoyment of our own bodies, free from torture, mutilation and violence of any sort. The right to sexual equity and equality. This refers to freedom from all forms of discrimination, paying due respect to sexual diversity, regardless of sex, gender, age, race, social class, religion and sexual orientation. The right to sexual health, including availability of all sufficient resources for development of research and the necessary knowledge of HIV/AIDS and STDs, as well as the further development of resources for research, diagnosis and treatment. The right to wide, objective and factual information on human sexuality in order to allow decision-making regarding sexual life. The right to a comprehensive sexuality education from birth and throughout the life cycle. All social institutions should be involved in this process. The right to associate freely. This means the possibility to marry or not, to divorce, and to establish other types of sexual associations. The right to make free and responsible choices regarding reproductive life, the number and spacing of children and the access to means of fertility regulation. The right to privacy, which implies the capability of making autonomous decisions about sexual life within a context of personal and social ethics. Rational and satisfactory experience of sexuality is a requirement for human development. Human sexuality is the origin of the deepest bond between human beings and is essential to the well-being of individuals, couples, families and society. Therefore, the respect for sexual rights should be promoted through all means. SEXUAL HEALTH IS A BASIC AND FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHT. Approved June 1997 WHO Working Definitions of Sex, Sexuality, Sexual Health, and Sexual Rights http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/gender_rights/sexual_health/en/index.html Sex Sex refers to the biological characteristics that define humans as female or male. (These sets of biological characteristics are not mutually exclusive as there are individuals who possess both, but these characteristics tend to differentiate humans as males and females. In general use in many languages, the term sex is often used to mean "sexual activity," but for technical purposes in the context of sexuality and sexual health discussions, the above definition is preferred.) Sexuality Sexuality is a central aspect of being human throughout life and encompasses sex, gender identities and roles, sexual orientation, eroticism, pleasure, intimacy, and reproduction. Sexuality is experienced and expressed in thoughts, fantasies, desires, beliefs, attitudes, values, behaviors, practices, roles, and relationships. While sexuality can include all of these dimensions, not all of them are always experienced or expressed. Sexuality is influenced by the interaction of biological, psychological, social, economic, political, cultural, ethical, legal, historical, and religious and spiritual factors. Sexual health Sexual health is a state of physical, emotional, mental, and social well-being related to sexuality; it is not merely the absence of disease, dysfunction, or infirmity. Sexual health requires a positive and respectful approach to sexuality and sexual relationships, as well as the possibility, of having pleasurable and safe sexual experiences, free of coercion, discrimination, and violence. For sexual health to be attained and maintained, the sexual rights of all persons must he respected, protected, and fulfilled. Sexual rights Sexual rights embrace human rights that arc already recognized in national laws, international human rights documents, and other consensus documents. These include the right of all persons, free of coercion, discrimination, and violence, to: o the highest attainable standard of health in relation to sexuality o accessible and affordable sexual and reproductive health care services; o seek, receive, and impart information in relation to sexuality; o sexuality education; o respect for bodily integrity; o choice of partner; o decide to be sexually active or not; o consensual sexual relations; o consensual marriage; o decide whether or not, and when to have children; and o pursue a satisfying, safe, and pleasurable sexual life. The responsible exercise of human rights requires that all persons respect the rights of others. From vigorous1943@yahoo.com Sun Aug 8 12:30:33 2010 Received: from web52207.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web52207.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.48.130]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o78GTxqj019643 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 2010 12:30:33 -0400 Received: (qmail 34154 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Aug 2010 16:29:59 -0000 Message-ID: <52428.33548.qm@web52207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 1wGUn9gVM1luAeXQh6ZM11aIe4RTqw8hvkEYS33tw2rB9JE xpsC847M2Tm0COzOUuBRAqHprFBRiAf.oW7AqT0c8gdhm8gcCS3lq5rIu7Wg Xu7sxZCqbMzlXch8f2uUlqoQRWeoF0k8ZVY85NN48ciYq5t2wBXJH5DUFHOE 0Y1tINC2N3JLePH7ED6MwiPgJLP7ocILeYaJmKKBnFVCXTQ0JvBvk8.h9H_v uS_TBeDSBweK9pB8tFnDy64nJyJWWxcDpvaT5lfLdO8Miyb6OrqCspo146b8 fbjrfB6gkrMYmVinst1gOnEhRmZHHKabQ0csKraG55S_i6x.mv2t8 Received: from [207.228.61.2] by web52207.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 08 Aug 2010 09:29:58 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.3.2 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 From: vigorous1943@yahoo.com To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Bay Area UUPA gathering, Saturday, August 28 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 16:30:34 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 09:29:58 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 16:30:34 -0000 Les, I'm a UU who's interested in Polyamory and would like to attend your BBQ.= =A0 Please send details.=A0 Looking forward to meeting you! Cheers....Roger Best=A0 UU Fellowship of N. NV, Reno =0A=0A=0A From MAILER-DAEMON@msb.ernest-doss.org Sun Aug 8 12:31:50 2010 Received: from cmsmail02.mx.net (cmsmail02.mx.net [165.212.10.22]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o78GVHbV020170 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 2010 12:31:50 -0400 Received: from cmsmail02.cms.usa.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by cmsmail02.mx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 890AE18C6E2 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 2010 16:30:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from Internal [Internal] by cmsmail02.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer C8.MAIN.3.67U); Sun, 08 Aug 2010 16:30:45 -0000 From: "Kathleen Haynie" To: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (C8.MAIN.3.67U) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <401oHHqEt6320T02.1281285045@cmsmail02.cms.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o78GVHbV020170 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Bay Area UUPA gathering, Saturday, August 28 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: NoFwd@cmsmail02.mx.net, uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 16:31:51 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 16:30:45 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 16:31:51 -0000 I will be away from my office and on vacation from July 30 through August 15th. If you need assistance, please contact my associate, Vonda Johnson, vonda_johnson@hotmail.com. Best, Kathleen C. Haynie, Ph.D. Director, Haynie Research and Evaluation b: 609.466.2990 c: 609.273.8173 ____________________________________________________________________ From taanderson@mac.com Sun Aug 8 15:33:08 2010 Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o78JX8uC029376 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 2010 15:33:08 -0400 Received: from [66.37.81.127] (helo=[192.168.1.15]) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1OiBcK-0007h9-1k for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Sun, 08 Aug 2010 15:33:08 -0400 References: <401oHHqEt6320T02.1281285045@cmsmail02.cms.usa.net> In-Reply-To: <401oHHqEt6320T02.1281285045@cmsmail02.cms.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: From: Thomas Anderson To: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-ELNK-Trace: 1268218529bbdc6bf35bffb030cf91f2584b9c8c7e9c6d6ec4d697761017ec8f1923c44b9f03ea5e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.37.81.127 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o78JX8uC029376 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 19:33:08 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 15:33:06 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 19:33:08 -0000 For my own edification I downloaded the PDF of the most recent ruling on Prop 8 in California. I spent some time reformatting it into a more readable text. This is the full, unabridged, un-altered text of the Judge's filing. I've reformatted it into both a Word and an HTML document. It's some very interesting stuff. Web Page: http://homepage.mac.com/rwoodruff/09cv2292-ORDER.htm Word Doc: http://homepage.mac.com/rwoodruff/09cv2292-ORDER.doc Take care, TAA From fantine@sonic.net Sun Aug 8 16:58:59 2010 Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o78KwPgQ001239 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 2010 16:58:59 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.103] (75-101-18-7.dsl.static.sonic.net [75.101.18.7]) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o78KwPtt001622 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 2010 13:58:25 -0700 From: Francesca Guido To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: References: <401oHHqEt6320T02.1281285045@cmsmail02.cms.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-ID: <1281300749.2473.72.camel@Astarte> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 20:58:59 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 13:52:29 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 20:58:59 -0000 FABULOUS! well worth a read (Ok, I admit I've read law before) what I can't get over is how *poor* the arguments were for prop 8. it's like saying the king has no clothes. On Sun, 2010-08-08 at 15:33 -0400, Thomas Anderson wrote: > For my own edification I downloaded the PDF of the most recent ruling on Prop 8 in California. I spent some time reformatting it into a more readable text. This is the full, unabridged, un-altered text of the Judge's filing. > I've reformatted it into both a Word and an HTML document. > > It's some very interesting stuff. > > Web Page: http://homepage.mac.com/rwoodruff/09cv2292-ORDER.htm > Word Doc: http://homepage.mac.com/rwoodruff/09cv2292-ORDER.doc > > Take care, > TAA > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From boydw.smith@yahoo.com Mon Aug 9 03:24:47 2010 Received: from web36401.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web36401.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.193]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o797OCRn028096 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 2010 03:24:46 -0400 Received: (qmail 21742 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Aug 2010 07:24:12 -0000 Message-ID: <184036.21492.qm@web36401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: WF.By_MVM1nyp2907oGkZUGaedRnh7nTsSeB8vKAbrDsDFk 8SILADx7XfcxYBZxGizktpBwtoYO8a9.2M3FXek4V298OKITgyIZhapMlsZh TGhwFNNF6fYMEEdGdT9X4G6qf77tSDpxZUcTVk0PD1KcSSMDg6tWM0431_yi jXMbNMznsFIAjsS3pHYyXWtNMWakNn.o7lZKU9cTzgym46.qzlVpoXysgNms nOFeQiXoSilAA94beN.9P6YvRIksvyWG2G7hzcCMKg_HSpT2rK9PJAWw93Mo ELqBXTdXyp7N0VF.UUZ0FZBVChRYT2TLrNxRia.qY7Es3Pmla1EOeuJk- Received: from [214.13.201.200] by web36401.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Aug 2010 00:24:11 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.3.2 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 From: Boyd Smith To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o797OCRn028096 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 07:24:52 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 00:24:11 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 07:24:52 -0000 Except is sounds like it was written by a lawyer. ;P But seriously, the 2nd paragraph under PROPONENTS' DEFENSE OF PROPOSITION 8, sounds like the perfect argument for getting rid of publicly funded schools. Or at least promoting the separation of State and Education. Which would be a good thing. But still reading. BWS --- On Sun, 8/8/10, Thomas Anderson wrote: > From: Thomas Anderson > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Sunday, August 8, 2010, 2:33 PM > For my own edification I downloaded > the PDF of the most recent ruling on Prop 8 in California. I > spent some time reformatting it into a more readable text. > This is the full, unabridged, un-altered text of the Judge's > filing. > I've reformatted it into both a Word and an HTML document. > > It's some very interesting stuff. > > Web Page:  http://homepage.mac.com/rwoodruff/09cv2292-ORDER.htm > Word Doc:  http://homepage.mac.com/rwoodruff/09cv2292-ORDER.doc > > Take care, > TAA > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From boydw.smith@yahoo.com Mon Aug 9 03:34:09 2010 Received: from web36403.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web36403.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.195]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o797XZEv028939 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 2010 03:34:09 -0400 Received: (qmail 12864 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Aug 2010 07:33:35 -0000 Message-ID: <944615.11288.qm@web36403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: vB7hJhwVM1lK7_5ik8LP8U_2ZXRR1OPdrga2mCIj3CrLeBv HL1itMUVLSv9MkoT5egIg0JPlSryniZwOcH_skRD1h2iGFuP3np5rKmUJbf1 WhdgNppZjnT4yQdg7M4vB4f8Pgsm1XD3Yjfd8uFpKOeEfDEmbgfh0ISyS1ix RY1TUTZkcOtyehib_QSt5sH.CBUPNbeI_C7LKi4yGdGV8YFkcYH_8dUQKBFh sZz.LiQL6rab7ZPdy0JqsfhhY47B36Ng.harPFvYliwHUQxMqOsYQoBVelX_ PvwiJTQrqW98EiuRsvRCi71R6A8E1BN90PnsnWpoL8A-- Received: from [214.13.201.200] by web36403.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Aug 2010 00:33:34 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.3.2 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 From: Boyd Smith To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o797XZEv028939 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 07:34:12 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 00:33:34 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 07:34:12 -0000 I would prefer to have the Government not be able to recognize or to give any special privilege based upon marriage. It should be a matter of private contract between consenting adults. BWS --- On Sun, 8/8/10, Thomas Anderson wrote: > From: Thomas Anderson > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Sunday, August 8, 2010, 2:33 PM > For my own edification I downloaded > the PDF of the most recent ruling on Prop 8 in California. I > spent some time reformatting it into a more readable text. > This is the full, unabridged, un-altered text of the Judge's > filing. > I've reformatted it into both a Word and an HTML document. > > It's some very interesting stuff. > > Web Page:  http://homepage.mac.com/rwoodruff/09cv2292-ORDER.htm > Word Doc:  http://homepage.mac.com/rwoodruff/09cv2292-ORDER.doc > > Take care, > TAA > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From union-consult@charter.net Mon Aug 9 12:15:42 2010 Received: from mta11.charter.net (mta11.charter.net [216.33.127.80]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o79GFf2O021431 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 2010 12:15:41 -0400 Received: from imp11 ([10.20.200.11]) by mta11.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.02.04 201-2219-117-106-20090629) with ESMTP id <20100809161531.BLWC14520.mta11.charter.net@imp11> for ; Mon, 9 Aug 2010 12:15:31 -0400 Received: from kelly ([68.114.55.29]) by imp11 with smtp.charter.net id sGFV1e00T0dpK9w05GFWCu; Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:15:31 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=YHPt1DAAUaFliueZrHcA:9 a=CeCMdlAOMBdURV2xy6oA:7 a=lV67MNgebALj7UrEEQsKulF38N4A:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 Message-ID: <99B84891F9D84C94832D5F15696A72A1@kelly> From: "Union Consult" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Re prop 8, DOMA and the like X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:15:42 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 12:11:31 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:15:42 -0000 Boyd Smith is right on in his observation about no governmental involvement in marriage. The state is responsible for insuring the protection and welfare of minor children, and it makes sense that one or more responsible adults in the home have that legal responsibility ("parents"). The relations among or between parents are of no concern to the state. If religion A wants to reserve the celebration of marriage to just one man and one woman, fine. If religion B wants to reserve the celebration of marriage to just two people of the same gender, fine. If religion C wants to reserve the celebration of marriage to just three people, with a further specification that at least one muyst be of a different gender than the other two and in addition, a marriage among two F's and 1 M will receive a service of no more than 30 minutes and a marriage among 2M's and and 1 F will receive a service of at least one hour, fine. Keep the government out of our homes and bedrooms and remember the words of that eminent theologian Albert "Fats" Waller. "Ain't Nobody's Business if I Do" From JasmineGld@aol.com Tue Aug 10 13:29:59 2010 Received: from imr-mb02.mx.aol.com (imr-mb02.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.163]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7AHTPv0026022 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:29:59 -0400 Received: from imo-da02.mx.aol.com (imo-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.200]) by imr-mb02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o7AHTK2o028686 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:29:20 -0400 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-da02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id g.cf2.7aaee527 (37533) for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:29:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-d25.mail.aol.com (magic-d25.mail.aol.com [172.19.146.159]) by cia-mb01.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB016-929d4c618c6b3b7; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:29:15 -0400 From: JasmineGld@aol.com Message-ID: <86ef4.637e80de.3992e66b@aol.com> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5379 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 74.130.8.252 X-AOL-IP: 172.19.146.159 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: JasmineGld@aol.com Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:29:59 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:29:15 EDT X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:29:59 -0000 In a message dated 8/9/2010 3:34:20 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, boydw.smith@yahoo.com writes: > I would prefer to have the Government not be able > to recognize or to give any special privilege based upon marriage. I can't agree with this, at least not until suitable alternatives are put into place. In the U.S. government recognition of marriage provides a number of vital legal protections, including * the right for a stay-at-home parent/homemaker to share in the earnings and benefits of their spouse. * the right for a stay-at-home parent/homemaker to qualify for Social Security and Medicare based on their spouse's employment record. * the right for a citizen to immediately sponsor their immigrant spouse, bypassing quota rules and outrageous waiting lines that would otherwise keep them apart or out of the country. . I would prefer the government expand its recognition of family and extend these and other protections to more people. But I cannot support destroying protections already in place. Jasmine From MAILER-DAEMON@msb.ernest-doss.org Tue Aug 10 13:31:17 2010 Received: from cmsmail02.mx.net (cmsmail02.mx.net [165.212.10.22]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7AHUhb5026652 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:31:17 -0400 Received: from cmsmail02.cms.usa.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by cmsmail02.mx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED64618C848 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:30:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from Internal [Internal] by cmsmail02.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer C8.MAIN.3.67U); Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:30:11 -0000 From: "Kathleen Haynie" To: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (C8.MAIN.3.67U) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <261oHJREL3088T02.1281461411@cmsmail02.cms.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o7AHUhb5026652 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: NoFwd@cmsmail02.mx.net, uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:31:17 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:30:11 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:31:17 -0000 I will be away from my office and on vacation from July 30 through August 15th. If you need assistance, please contact my associate, Vonda Johnson, vonda_johnson@hotmail.com. Best, Kathleen C. Haynie, Ph.D. Director, Haynie Research and Evaluation b: 609.466.2990 c: 609.273.8173 ____________________________________________________________________ From desmondravenstone@yahoo.com Tue Aug 10 18:46:24 2010 Received: from web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.38.78]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7AMkOIb008550 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 18:46:24 -0400 Received: (qmail 5099 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Aug 2010 22:46:23 -0000 Message-ID: <864548.4546.qm@web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 8U4iNCIVM1kvKNGR4sC0VXoUut4QOsuSKT0a4QAlie_E0G1 fRC1JwHpSAMAMvA7.2MRJAFtkuzxAkgA1j0JTQpWKFeRr0_lvNphJIeY0RY4 NfsPU6a3VQHkH1UtkGk0cvSNxNpG9EmbCGlEo7wCSvsb4SUff9Yf7yw2nPNK 8eWk61e.TNFXmDYyevz6cpYyWGHSiSzLos7SXDkXU61Y63i8TtXO.OzZQsiW TmawBYnrAXl8UvUH6HpC.Z2_WILFVKSTkHq7ATEDP1NOR2.awpONYSqC2Bo4 8R5hyHIZEx.vYbb56uLYPlyw- Received: from [68.247.34.213] by web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:46:23 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/459 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: <86ef4.637e80de.3992e66b@aol.com> From: Desmond Ravenstone To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: <86ef4.637e80de.3992e66b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:46:24 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:46:23 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:46:24 -0000 >> I would prefer to have the Government not be able=A0to=A0 recognize or t= o give any =0A>>special privilege based upon marriage. =0A>>=0A=0A> I can't= =A0 agree with this, at least not until suitable alternatives are put into = =0A>place.=A0=0A=A0=0ASo here's a compromise -- replace government-issued m= arriage licences with =0Aprivately-drafted marriage contracts.=A0 They coul= d still be registered with =0Agovernment agencies, but now the government w= ould not be given the fiat to =0Asimply refuse to recognize a given marriag= e.=0A=A0=0AMore details here: =0Ahttp://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com= /2009/05/case-for-privatizing-marriage.html=0A=0A=A0=0ADesmond Ravenstone = =0A=0A"What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a th= ousand =0Aforms..."=0A=0Ahttp://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com=0Ahttp:= //www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone =0A=0A=0A From les.addison@gmail.com Tue Aug 10 18:48:50 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f175.google.com (mail-wy0-f175.google.com [74.125.82.175]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7AMmobl009083 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 18:48:50 -0400 Received: by wyb38 with SMTP id 38so12352008wyb.20 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:48:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.1.77 with SMTP id 55mr641660wec.72.1281480529697; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:48:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.70.17 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:48:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <864548.4546.qm@web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <86ef4.637e80de.3992e66b@aol.com> <864548.4546.qm@web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: Les Addison To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:48:51 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:48:49 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:48:51 -0000 so only people who have the ability to draft marriage contracts, to read and understand legalese, would be able to have the right to visit each other in the hospital or share responsibility for children? On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 3:46 PM, Desmond Ravenstone < desmondravenstone@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> I would prefer to have the Government not be able to recognize or to > give any > >>special privilege based upon marriage. > >> > > > I can't agree with this, at least not until suitable alternatives are > put into > >place. > > So here's a compromise -- replace government-issued marriage licences with > privately-drafted marriage contracts. They could still be registered with > government agencies, but now the government would not be given the fiat to > simply refuse to recognize a given marriage. > > More details here: > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com/2009/05/case-for-privatizing-marriage.html > > > Desmond Ravenstone > > "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a thousand > forms..." > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com > http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From licorice.gumdrop@gmail.com Tue Aug 10 18:52:09 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f175.google.com (mail-gy0-f175.google.com [209.85.160.175]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7AMq8hB010018 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 18:52:08 -0400 Received: by gyd8 with SMTP id 8so4385818gyd.20 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.8.2 with SMTP id 2mr20515241anh.165.1281480726276; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.28.208.20] ([166.137.10.40]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u14sm11285126ann.0.2010.08.10.15.52.05 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:52:05 -0700 (PDT) References: <86ef4.637e80de.3992e66b@aol.com> <864548.4546.qm@web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 8A306) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: Cc: "uupoly-l@uupa.org" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (8A306) From: licorice gumdrop To: "uupoly-l@uupa.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o7AMq8hB010018 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:52:09 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 18:51:53 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:52:09 -0000 it wouldn't take long for boilerplate to get drafted and circulated. and it's not like most people read & understand the laws that confer marriage rights at current. - jenny On Aug 10, 2010, at 6:48 PM, Les Addison wrote: > so only people who have the ability to draft marriage contracts, to read and > understand legalese, would be able to have the right to visit each other in > the hospital or share responsibility for children? > > From stacey.nj@gmail.com Tue Aug 10 18:53:06 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f47.google.com (mail-vw0-f47.google.com [209.85.212.47]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7AMr6kc010410 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 18:53:06 -0400 Received: by vws13 with SMTP id 13so8438718vws.20 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:53:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.121.207 with SMTP id i15mr2093124vcr.237.1281480785309; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.103.66 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:53:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <86ef4.637e80de.3992e66b@aol.com> <864548.4546.qm@web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: Stacey Greenstein To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:53:06 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:53:05 -1000 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:53:06 -0000 Or afford lawyers to do it for them... On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Les Addison wrote: > so only people who have the ability to draft marriage contracts, to read > and > understand legalese, would be able to have the right to visit each other in > the hospital or share responsibility for children? > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 3:46 PM, Desmond Ravenstone < > desmondravenstone@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> I would prefer to have the Government not be able to recognize or to > > give any > > >>special privilege based upon marriage. > > >> > > > > > I can't agree with this, at least not until suitable alternatives are > > put into > > >place. > > > > So here's a compromise -- replace government-issued marriage licences > with > > privately-drafted marriage contracts. They could still be registered > with > > government agencies, but now the government would not be given the fiat > to > > simply refuse to recognize a given marriage. > > > > More details here: > > > > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com/2009/05/case-for-privatizing-marriage.html > > > > > > Desmond Ravenstone > > > > "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a > thousand > > forms..." > > > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com > > http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > -- a guy named Stacey From desmondravenstone@yahoo.com Tue Aug 10 19:01:08 2010 Received: from web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.38.84]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7AN17DL011253 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:01:07 -0400 Received: (qmail 540 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Aug 2010 23:01:07 -0000 Message-ID: <535943.385.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: ZIrAf4wVM1ldpvSIPzF0wIDFvw6HEUPUaXZiabunTl7QUT4 K7ohCT9NNFiUmPEYNXy73SGKRhcou8jzQRZjQICIVutwN0lf8LEsCWBaP0xD 5q0t8bG.PWqyt0Ya9HD4yLIdBeWqbLnLOx1eM2DHGGCfNVeVkVKJ38uBuw.s X8Eu4YNgO1m3e9dZ9Jf3PWM7LnEsJCikNmUpzGtSXL5o2e04r5v8ae4VjwSR AoPLOtk71mrTHRhQVc6qfUFvz.kTD8yjXl349UoAkfUX9UduiDkrluuZ7Unq kqHijYbLStK93h6hphz7HfMgYRRCvoCwk8gQk8IVrYim3 Received: from [68.247.34.213] by web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 16:01:07 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/459 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: <86ef4.637e80de.3992e66b@aol.com> <864548.4546.qm@web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Desmond Ravenstone To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:01:09 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 16:01:07 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:01:09 -0000 Les: As licorice said, it wouldn't take=A0long=A0before=A0one or more contr= act =0Atemplates are made available.=A0 When you sign a lease for an apartm= ent, you're =0Asigning a contract developed from a template.=A0 And an incr= easing number of=A0folks =0Aare drafting simple wills and other documents b= ased on widely available =0Atemplates.=0A=0AThe point is that, even with th= e legal rights and responsibilities which come =0Awith civil marriage, it's= still a private agreement based on love.=A0 So why do we =0Aneed the gover= nment determining who can and cannot enter into it?=0A=A0=0ADesmond Ravenst= one =0A=0A"What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes = a thousand =0Aforms..."=0A=0Ahttp://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com=0Ah= ttp://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________= _____________=0AFrom: Les Addison =0ATo: uupoly-l@uu= pa.org=0ASent: Tue, August 10, 2010 6:48:49 PM=0ASubject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Pr= op 8 Ruling=0A=0Aso only people who have the ability to draft marriage cont= racts, to read and=0Aunderstand legalese, would be able to have the right t= o visit each other in=0Athe hospital or share responsibility for children?= =0A=0AOn Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 3:46 PM, Desmond Ravenstone <=0Adesmondravens= tone@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A=0A> >> I would prefer to have the Government not = be able to=A0 recognize or to=0A> give any=0A> >>special privilege based up= on marriage.=0A> >>=0A>=0A> > I can't=A0 agree with this, at least not unti= l suitable alternatives are=0A> put into=0A> >place.=0A>=0A> So here's a co= mpromise -- replace government-issued marriage licences with=0A> privately-= drafted marriage contracts.=A0 They could still be registered with=0A> gove= rnment agencies, but now the government would not be given the fiat to=0A> = simply refuse to recognize a given marriage.=0A>=0A> More details here:=0A>= =0A>http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com/2009/05/case-for-privatizing= -marriage.html=0A>l=0A>=0A>=0A> Desmond Ravenstone=0A>=0A> "What you call s= in, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a thousand=0A> forms..."= =0A>=0A> http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com=0A> http://www.myspace.= com/desmond_ravenstone=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> ____________________________________= ___________=0A> The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives.=0A> Please k= eep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself.=0A> UUPol= y-L mailing list=0A> UUPoly-L@uupa.org=0A> http://www.uupa.org/mailman/list= info/uupoly-l=0A>=0A_______________________________________________=0AThe U= UPoly-L mailing list has public archives.=0APlease keep that in mind when d= eciding how much to reveal about yourself.=0AUUPoly-L mailing list=0AUUPoly= -L@uupa.org=0Ahttp://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l=0A=0A=0A=0A = From les.addison@gmail.com Tue Aug 10 19:05:49 2010 Received: from mail-qw0-f47.google.com (mail-qw0-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7AN5mHp011891 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:05:48 -0400 Received: by qwg8 with SMTP id 8so9163044qwg.20 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 16:05:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.52.131 with SMTP id i3mr3341972qag.321.1281481547362; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 16:05:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.73.146 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 16:05:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <535943.385.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <86ef4.637e80de.3992e66b@aol.com> <864548.4546.qm@web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <535943.385.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: Les Addison To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:05:49 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 16:05:47 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:05:49 -0000 we don't necessarily need the government determining who can enter it, we need them as a repository of records of who has done so. We currently HAVE a set of boilerplate -- that's what the laws defining marriage and the rights of married people *do*. I'm having a serious "*headdesk*, no wonder Unitarian Universalists are seen as highly impractical economically advantaged people" moment. On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Desmond Ravenstone < desmondravenstone@yahoo.com> wrote: > Les: As licorice said, it wouldn't take long before one or more contract > templates are made available. When you sign a lease for an apartment, > you're > signing a contract developed from a template. And an increasing number > of folks > are drafting simple wills and other documents based on widely available > templates. > > The point is that, even with the legal rights and responsibilities which > come > with civil marriage, it's still a private agreement based on love. So why > do we > need the government determining who can and cannot enter into it? > > Desmond Ravenstone > > "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a thousand > forms..." > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com > http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Les Addison > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 6:48:49 PM > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling > > so only people who have the ability to draft marriage contracts, to read > and > understand legalese, would be able to have the right to visit each other in > the hospital or share responsibility for children? > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 3:46 PM, Desmond Ravenstone < > desmondravenstone@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> I would prefer to have the Government not be able to recognize or to > > give any > > >>special privilege based upon marriage. > > >> > > > > > I can't agree with this, at least not until suitable alternatives are > > put into > > >place. > > > > So here's a compromise -- replace government-issued marriage licences > with > > privately-drafted marriage contracts. They could still be registered > with > > government agencies, but now the government would not be given the fiat > to > > simply refuse to recognize a given marriage. > > > > More details here: > > > > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com/2009/05/case-for-privatizing-marriage.html > >l > > > > > > Desmond Ravenstone > > > > "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a > thousand > > forms..." > > > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com > > http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From stacey.nj@gmail.com Tue Aug 10 19:08:35 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f47.google.com (mail-vw0-f47.google.com [209.85.212.47]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7AN8ZS1012597 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:08:35 -0400 Received: by vws13 with SMTP id 13so8452534vws.20 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 16:08:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.159.14 with SMTP id h14mr10902464vcx.115.1281481714868; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 16:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.103.66 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 16:08:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <86ef4.637e80de.3992e66b@aol.com> <864548.4546.qm@web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <535943.385.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: Stacey Greenstein To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:08:35 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:08:34 -1000 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:08:35 -0000 And such a boilerplate is in existence for same-sex relationships already.... It's a stack about 5 inches high... And it still isn't the same as marriage. On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Les Addison wrote: > we don't necessarily need the government determining who can enter it, we > need them as a repository of records of who has done so. We currently HAVE > a set of boilerplate -- that's what the laws defining marriage and the > rights of married people *do*. > > I'm having a serious "*headdesk*, no wonder Unitarian Universalists are > seen > as highly impractical economically advantaged people" moment. > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Desmond Ravenstone < > desmondravenstone@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Les: As licorice said, it wouldn't take long before one or more contract > > templates are made available. When you sign a lease for an apartment, > > you're > > signing a contract developed from a template. And an increasing number > > of folks > > are drafting simple wills and other documents based on widely available > > templates. > > > > The point is that, even with the legal rights and responsibilities which > > come > > with civil marriage, it's still a private agreement based on love. So > why > > do we > > need the government determining who can and cannot enter into it? > > > > Desmond Ravenstone > > > > "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a > thousand > > forms..." > > > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com > > http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Les Addison > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > > Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 6:48:49 PM > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling > > > > so only people who have the ability to draft marriage contracts, to read > > and > > understand legalese, would be able to have the right to visit each other > in > > the hospital or share responsibility for children? > > > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 3:46 PM, Desmond Ravenstone < > > desmondravenstone@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > >> I would prefer to have the Government not be able to recognize or > to > > > give any > > > >>special privilege based upon marriage. > > > >> > > > > > > > I can't agree with this, at least not until suitable alternatives > are > > > put into > > > >place. > > > > > > So here's a compromise -- replace government-issued marriage licences > > with > > > privately-drafted marriage contracts. They could still be registered > > with > > > government agencies, but now the government would not be given the fiat > > to > > > simply refuse to recognize a given marriage. > > > > > > More details here: > > > > > > > > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com/2009/05/case-for-privatizing-marriage.html > > >l > > > > > > > > > Desmond Ravenstone > > > > > > "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a > > thousand > > > forms..." > > > > > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com > > > http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about > yourself. > > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > -- a guy named Stacey From fantine@sonic.net Tue Aug 10 20:08:20 2010 Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7B07kvF015879 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:08:20 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.103] (75-101-18-7.dsl.static.sonic.net [75.101.18.7]) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o7B07ko2006335 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:07:46 -0700 From: Francesca Guido To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: References: <86ef4.637e80de.3992e66b@aol.com> <864548.4546.qm@web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <535943.385.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-ID: <1281484879.2473.167.camel@Astarte> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:08:20 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:01:19 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:08:20 -0000 What she said. First of all, distinguish civil marriage from the sacred covenant of marriage. I never needed a license for a blessing of my union. Second, civil marriage law is an amalgam of the law of contracts, real property, wills and probate, divorce and community property, etc. There is a LOT of history built in. And now the defeat of Prop 8 is part of that history. So, if you have partners to consider, you either A) go to law school (I think Les did that, yes?), B) go the Nolo Press route (mind you, this differs state by state), C) consult an attorney about your individual situation, or D) trust the law of your state. I pick E) all of the above (yes, I did waste some years in law school; that's why I'm saying this). I happen to like California law as it regards community property and with the defeat of Prop 8, I like CA even more. But I will be signing a few well-considered documents concerning my household. 'Cesca On Tue, 2010-08-10 at 16:05 -0700, Les Addison wrote: > we don't necessarily need the government determining who can enter it, we > need them as a repository of records of who has done so. We currently HAVE > a set of boilerplate -- that's what the laws defining marriage and the > rights of married people *do*. > > I'm having a serious "*headdesk*, no wonder Unitarian Universalists are seen > as highly impractical economically advantaged people" moment. > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Desmond Ravenstone < > desmondravenstone@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Les: As licorice said, it wouldn't take long before one or more contract > > templates are made available. When you sign a lease for an apartment, > > you're > > signing a contract developed from a template. And an increasing number > > of folks > > are drafting simple wills and other documents based on widely available > > templates. > > > > The point is that, even with the legal rights and responsibilities which > > come > > with civil marriage, it's still a private agreement based on love. So why > > do we > > need the government determining who can and cannot enter into it? > > > > Desmond Ravenstone > > > > "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a thousand > > forms..." > > > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com > > http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Les Addison > > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > > Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 6:48:49 PM > > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling > > > > so only people who have the ability to draft marriage contracts, to read > > and > > understand legalese, would be able to have the right to visit each other in > > the hospital or share responsibility for children? > > > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 3:46 PM, Desmond Ravenstone < > > desmondravenstone@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > >> I would prefer to have the Government not be able to recognize or to > > > give any > > > >>special privilege based upon marriage. > > > >> > > > > > > > I can't agree with this, at least not until suitable alternatives are > > > put into > > > >place. > > > > > > So here's a compromise -- replace government-issued marriage licences > > with > > > privately-drafted marriage contracts. They could still be registered > > with > > > government agencies, but now the government would not be given the fiat > > to > > > simply refuse to recognize a given marriage. > > > > > > More details here: > > > > > > > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com/2009/05/case-for-privatizing-marriage.html > > >l > > > > > > > > > Desmond Ravenstone > > > > > > "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a > > thousand > > > forms..." > > > > > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com > > > http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From boydw.smith@yahoo.com Wed Aug 11 03:30:42 2010 Received: from web36408.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web36408.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.200]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7B7U56L002152 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 03:30:41 -0400 Received: (qmail 14884 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Aug 2010 07:30:05 -0000 Message-ID: <182849.14148.qm@web36408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 1frBWOcVM1ngf7u2Bln_QmqJo0bjccby8KoX70ChKTTMs5X mwVs0HIhugIAKY9oxEEs4nc5.i93D4y9N41E6yssjwFa2MDy11m8qBQCyHjQ TUNEIzm24jSYvfcTToToCoE.0xeom1ENCSyoLZ1jXGTq_qPcuQVEA6FezxN1 93GlcNbZsb_OlEi2Eysst12_NbKwPfyB1b2UwS9eUHe_y8U_gM5QphK8MMPD Szyl94CQDXKjoxcBPEeAyyahYawInbV3sq3WklKn6MAPFpVmnB6_LuMAoSuv mKAZ9kOMdEnB..YswNGwvQF3F_C1l3aG7b_aH63WygxWmag1PkeVX.N4zq1x kqJesDYwAO1k_14NuUWq.P4I5NQ-- Received: from [109.70.66.187] by web36408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:30:04 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.3.2 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 From: Boyd Smith To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: <864548.4546.qm@web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o7B7U56L002152 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 07:30:43 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:30:04 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 07:30:43 -0000 I agree. And eventually the government role could be replaced with a private recording agency. And now that I have found your site, I had to create a new favorites folder on my web browser - called spiritual. I will be going to it a lot over the next few years I am sure. BWS --- On Tue, 8/10/10, Desmond Ravenstone wrote: > From: Desmond Ravenstone > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 5:46 PM > >> I would prefer to have the > Government not be able to  recognize or to give any > >>special privilege based upon marriage. > >> > > > I can't  agree with this, at least not until suitable > alternatives are put into > >place.  >   > So here's a compromise -- replace government-issued > marriage licences with > privately-drafted marriage contracts.  They could still be > registered with > government agencies, but now the government would not be > given the fiat to > simply refuse to recognize a given marriage. >   > More details here: > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com/2009/05/case-for-privatizing-marriage.html > >   > Desmond Ravenstone > > "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which > takes a thousand > forms..." > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com > http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone > > > >       > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From boydw.smith@yahoo.com Wed Aug 11 03:36:33 2010 Received: from web36404.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web36404.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.196]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7B7Zx2T002859 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 03:36:33 -0400 Received: (qmail 46399 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Aug 2010 07:35:57 -0000 Message-ID: <722802.43104.qm@web36404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: C3Y.7jkVM1laBMFsLXbrrX0GC.6cXZaow1a8Db.D4IgSLIg sL.m0b8EZwwkGi7uLk.drSg.pMRuYIulIpArrs5tJvV4fMRtapammYmjvunj fW6O9QJ57Q4_zmxzqGS2dVwQGpOJpaRZUPFzqA4TY.CAuJc2NONVJ.86X7nV FJ.YUlRu8Pxg0XhP9IyqkZ26r6uekDCYMYS9pMAI.w9WeStsL8X.ztcJdPQ5 rsOgRdrcVVaTnsTzJNrI18zQ0DJdTEZ.Efd26zQHF7xg.ztGQQeoiyteLc11 NLtdwsZjJtcWBUT3tTijxz9VUZ2XiaX6Sssa0djr.MkPe27jF2UjBKAYw1ZQ - Received: from [109.70.66.187] by web36404.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:35:57 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.3.2 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 From: Boyd Smith To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o7B7Zx2T002859 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 07:36:35 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:35:57 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 07:36:35 -0000 Since they have to sign and understand legal documents and understand the concepts now, I think that by having it be a matter of private contract you could more easily get someone to help you through it all. They way it is now the people you describe would be less well off. Because there is no universally accepted definition of marriage in existence now, a private contract would put that acceptance and understanding where it needs to be - between the adults involved. BWS --- On Tue, 8/10/10, Les Addison wrote: > From: Les Addison > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 5:48 PM > so only people who have the ability > to draft marriage contracts, to read and > understand legalese, would be able to have the right to > visit each other in > the hospital or share responsibility for children? > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 3:46 PM, Desmond Ravenstone < > desmondravenstone@yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > >> I would prefer to have the Government not be > able to  recognize or to > > give any > > >>special privilege based upon marriage. > > >> > > > > > I can't  agree with this, at least not until > suitable alternatives are > > put into > > >place. > > > > So here's a compromise -- replace government-issued > marriage licences with > > privately-drafted marriage contracts.  They could > still be registered with > > government agencies, but now the government would not > be given the fiat to > > simply refuse to recognize a given marriage. > > > > More details here: > > > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com/2009/05/case-for-privatizing-marriage.html > > > > > > Desmond Ravenstone > > > > "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, > which takes a thousand > > forms..." > > > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com > > http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to > reveal about yourself. > > UUPoly-L mailing list > > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From boydw.smith@yahoo.com Wed Aug 11 03:39:56 2010 Received: from web36405.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web36405.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.197]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7B7dMfR003425 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 03:39:56 -0400 Received: (qmail 8959 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Aug 2010 07:39:21 -0000 Message-ID: <715797.8729.qm@web36405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: mW0XbMAVM1l4vqrmufRJaQq1IBORitx7gsqxX4cE8YMKiWR Sd_NqnGyp0k_YaEta5vnP4Efb3Q4JynkGOmwRC8M.vA7NDGQSl9ZmyIVH4e4 kRW2aJZ5884jXsVE7aAZ_Qmhj_QlEJ1ZCDjuu0ZUy2zE7s0WvMNEN6vyf3x5 yxVsXwSamFS4TDGPTUKGkwoC.q.AmAVKBBdNpQjBxU.U1YrPJSDNkZd9BUco OyWPXqgkyoZih1mRR5nAcilRABOuAM9D8rpzXdPprvMrnqqqONejZjP2TFqJ o.kZ4uptR1tzyxS5sUWs1S25NweYbU4YOiKKD Received: from [109.70.66.187] by web36405.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:39:21 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.3.2 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 From: Boyd Smith To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 07:39:56 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:39:21 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 07:39:56 -0000 > From: Stacey Greenstein > Or afford lawyers to do it for them... Or buy a $10 program at the local Office Depot. BWS From desmondravenstone@yahoo.com Wed Aug 11 07:04:57 2010 Received: from web50501.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web50501.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.38.77]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7BB4vg1012822 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 07:04:57 -0400 Received: (qmail 18367 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Aug 2010 11:04:57 -0000 Message-ID: <55100.18009.qm@web50501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: JabWhDwVM1kLz4jqJVOVaxGP.HVahN.AvCCA6FVqQOZwl8B uXjg0mtuUwzYIOYrpN9wgR237SkB9vAsVNMrh5NCy111HjfdmeJCu0vVVpp0 9vtLldn9NEyoDac8eGEcH5z0lacLHLZhTnsPyNzrTSpR44ubWtfHBsKC6pPY t_nn9BuCFvzBuqeq3rHlQ.RtPI6I8z4W_P0cZgBx3kC6kvrO0yNUZBZBiBg9 p3v4A1BtYf9X6RMGNkcmXZRcqfov2xDCPhJvEB3ndXIpAgdQwvLrFXaJR2co 0jUP_YlPHrnK5hhxNWyVxpk6jrRcVUmNGAOOff9bdlmUC Received: from [173.101.166.155] by web50501.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 04:04:56 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/459 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: <715797.8729.qm@web36405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Desmond Ravenstone To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: <715797.8729.qm@web36405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:04:58 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 04:04:56 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:04:58 -0000 You may not even need the ten bucks.=A0 I anticipate that "freeware" will b= e =0Aavailable to come up with=A0different templates for marriage contracts= .=A0 All you'd =0Aneed do is log in at your public library,=A0find the site= ,=A0choose and fill out a =0Aform, then=A0have it printed.=A0 You may even = be able to sign and file =0Aelectronically.=0A=A0=0AThe point, however, is = that such a system would no longer give government the =0Afiat to say: "You= two can get married, but these two (or three) cannot, and only =0Aunder th= ese terms."=0A=A0=0ADesmond Ravenstone =0A=0A"What you call sin, I call the= great spirit of love, which takes a thousand =0Aforms..."=0A=0Ahttp://rave= nstonesreflections.blogspot.com=0Ahttp://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Boyd Smith =0ATo: uupoly-l@uupa.org=0ASent: Wed, August 11, 2010 3:39:= 21 AM=0ASubject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling=0A=0A> From: Stacey Greenstei= n =0A=0A> Or afford lawyers to do it for them...=0A=0A= Or buy a $10 program at the local Office Depot.=0A=0ABWS=0A=0A=0A=A0 =A0 = =A0 =0A_______________________________________________=0AThe UUPoly-L maili= ng list has public archives.=0APlease keep that in mind when deciding how m= uch to reveal about yourself.=0AUUPoly-L mailing list=0AUUPoly-L@uupa.org= =0Ahttp://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l=0A=0A=0A=0A From carrierbrad@gmail.com Wed Aug 11 12:46:26 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f175.google.com (mail-gx0-f175.google.com [209.85.161.175]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7BGkPQc030997 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:46:26 -0400 Received: by gxk2 with SMTP id 2so115397gxk.20 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:46:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.150.2 with SMTP id c2mr17226644ybo.255.1281545184487; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:46:24 -0700 (PDT) Sender: carrierbrad@gmail.com Received: by 10.220.170.129 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:46:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55100.18009.qm@web50501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <715797.8729.qm@web36405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <55100.18009.qm@web50501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: h8atr-kUbCt_jYwIPX6CojKbBVI Message-ID: From: "bbc@ashlandhome.net" To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 16:46:26 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:46:24 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 16:46:26 -0000 I disagree with the perspective that government has no interest in defining marriage. They must deal with the angry relations at separation and the welfare of children in general (to some humane extent, at least) and various tax and inheritance policies are formulated on biologically enduring realities, not just disparate wants and whims. The definition and related policies of marriage are open to examination and public discussion. The current assumption that those favoring a traditional definition of marriage are also homophobic bigots against human rights is dismissive, insulting, alienating, and will create a backlash. More of my efforts to think this out may be read at my website earthlyreligion.com where you can leave your comments. Three essays (sermons or editorials) are listed there, one of which includes brief consideration of polyamory and marriage. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:04 AM, Desmond Ravenstone < desmondravenstone@yahoo.com> wrote: > You may not even need the ten bucks. I anticipate that "freeware" will be > available to come up with different templates for marriage contracts. All > you'd > need do is log in at your public library, find the site, choose and fill > out a > form, then have it printed. You may even be able to sign and file > electronically. > > The point, however, is that such a system would no longer give government > the > fiat to say: "You two can get married, but these two (or three) cannot, and > only > under these terms." > > Desmond Ravenstone > > "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a thousand > forms..." > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com > http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Boyd Smith > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Sent: Wed, August 11, 2010 3:39:21 AM > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling > > > From: Stacey Greenstein > > > Or afford lawyers to do it for them... > > Or buy a $10 program at the local Office Depot. > > BWS > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > From JasmineGld@aol.com Wed Aug 11 13:03:20 2010 Received: from imr-ma02.mx.aol.com (imr-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.206.40]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7BH2kVW032387 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:03:19 -0400 Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-ma02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o7BH2esM010760 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:02:40 -0400 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id g.ccd.7804c376 (45500) for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:02:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-m23.mail.aol.com (magic-m23.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.196]) by cia-mc08.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMC087-b1bc4c62d7a5140; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:02:29 -0400 From: JasmineGld@aol.com Message-ID: <7fba8.342e3ca1.399431a5@aol.com> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5379 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 74.130.8.252 X-AOL-IP: 172.20.22.196 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: JasmineGld@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:03:20 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:02:29 EDT X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:03:20 -0000 In a message dated 8/10/2010 6:46:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, desmondravenstone@yahoo.com writes: > So here's a compromise -- replace government-issued > marriage licences with privately-drafted marriage > contracts. They could still be registered with government > agencies, but now the government would not be given > the fiat to simply refuse to recognize a given marriage. I don't see this as an improvement. To be more precise, I don't see this as much different than the current situation. Private contracts can't provide for governmental benefits like spousal Social Security and Medicare, extension of government employee benefits to a spouse, or sponsorship of an immigrant spouse. Only the government can grant these benefits. Whether government grants them by issuing a marriage license or by recognizing a private contract seems to make no real difference. These benefits still all rest on government recognition. Come to think of it, the private contract route might end up restricting marriage recognition. Different levels of government could choose to recognize some private contracts but not others, based on their own arcane criteria. In addition, private contracts leave too many gaps, situations that aren't covered by the contract. And, that 5 inches of paper that cost too many dollars and too much time and stress and anxiety to set up in the first place, will have to be done all over again, if the spouses move to a different state. Jasmine From desmondravenstone@yahoo.com Wed Aug 11 18:26:02 2010 Received: from web50505.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web50505.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.38.81]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7BMQ2Z4013155 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:26:02 -0400 Received: (qmail 7398 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Aug 2010 22:26:01 -0000 Message-ID: <776299.96690.qm@web50505.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: LYxDVLoVM1nzdCJjLYNP8qmbB2QXzLQ5hd.0r.4qmgHLE_7 JLYb8c9rL.nz1J0jgCsvisMbGcYKbsCHgHjXOVR5fR_F6y_XS7jCQvULko.3 kRVSW2IsC_hcKzcy0Kzu_bK8L9R.kGMITp4qdfGzGkoN7M0SfwbUAEyPlDND ecVycODqv5YID9Y.Efspck2REnswlzx2TY6FOQiJaNwMAhvWlbRMdR1lW7EC YNbn2or.VHzJh3Ki9suzeUAOuF81R361TXdGcmR2qeBTtX8xa.Pae129RslC sNJIL_blPXDSFvSUSOCBSqTq.oAGwkohu0WQrSMZkJtZYiR3lf7d1Owix3Cu uDhdcQEE6dcEs Received: from [72.60.105.201] by web50505.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:26:01 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/459 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: <7fba8.342e3ca1.399431a5@aol.com> From: Desmond Ravenstone To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: <7fba8.342e3ca1.399431a5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:26:02 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:26:01 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:26:02 -0000 > I don't see this as an improvement. To be more precise, I don't see=A0 th= is as =0A>much different than the current situation. =0A>=0A=0AYes and no.= =A0 It would be different in just one aspect -- how society determines =0Aw= ho is "legally" married.=A0 Currently, it's done by a government official l= ooking =0Aover an application for a license, and deciding whether those who= applied for a =0Alicense are "qualified" to receive it.=A0 And if they don= 't?=A0 Then the burden is =0Aon the applicants to prove it through a length= y lawsuit.=0A=0AIn the system I propose, the people getting married set the= standard, and submit =0Aa copy of their contract to a government record of= fice, much as a will is =0Asubmitted to probate.=A0 The burden is then on t= he government to prove either (a) =0Athat one or more parties are not able = to enter into the contract, or (b) that =0Athe contract is somehow not vali= d by being incoherent or unenforceable.=0A=0AOtherwise, the same rights and= responsibilities tied to marriage would remain.=A0 =0AThe shift is simply = on the mechanism of recognition, and where the burden of =0Aproof would lie= on whether a given marriage arrangement should be deemed =0A"legitimate".= =0A=0A> Private contracts can't provide for governmental benefits like=A0 s= pousal Social =0A>Security and Medicare, extension of government employee= =A0 benefits to a =0A>=0Aspouse, or sponsorship of an immigrant spouse. Onl= y the=A0 government can grant =0Athese benefits. Whether government grants = them by issuing=A0 a marriage =0A=0Alicense or by recognizing a private con= tract seems to make no real=A0 difference.=A0=0A=0ANote my emphasis.=A0 Yes= ,=A0all of the rights and responsibilities connected to =0Amarriage would r= emain the same.=A0 It's how we as a society recognize marriage =0Awhich wou= ld change.=A0 =0A=0A=0A> Come to think of it, the private contract route mi= ght end up=A0 restricting =0A>marriage recognition. Different levels of gov= ernment could choose=A0to =0A>=0Arecognize some private contracts but not o= thers, based on their own=A0 arcane =0Acriteria.=A0=0A=0AHow so?=A0 If all = you are=A0doing is replacing "government-issued marriage license" =0Awith "= privately-entered marriage contract",=A0given that the current criteria for= =0Aissuing licenses is fairly low (be of legal age, produce a blood test, = show =0Aconsent)=A0the same criteria can be upheld as=A0the minimum standar= ds for=A0the =0Avalidity of=A0a marriage contract.=A0 And=A0if "different l= evels of government" choose =0Adifferent criteria, that=A0only makes things= more chaotic for government as a =0Awhole.=0A=A0=0ALastly: I don't expect = such a proposal to become reality any time soon.=A0 But the =0Aproposal doe= s raise the most important question on the marriage issue: What does =0Ait = mean to get married?=A0 Is it religious sanction?=A0 Is is government =0Are= cognition?=A0 Is it majority approval?=A0 Or is it the love and commitment = of =0Athose who choose to marry?=A0 The contract proposal sets the answer s= quarely with =0Athose who choose to join in love, without interfering with = the government's role =0Aof providing married folks with the tools to uphol= d their commitments to their =0Aspouses and families.=0A=A0=0ADesmond Raven= stone =0A=0A"What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which take= s a thousand =0Aforms..."=0A=0Ahttp://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com= =0Ahttp://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone =0A=0A=0A From MAILER-DAEMON@msb.ernest-doss.org Wed Aug 11 18:27:20 2010 Received: from cmsmail02.mx.net (cmsmail02.mx.net [165.212.10.22]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7BMQkct013698 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:27:20 -0400 Received: from cmsmail02.cms.usa.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by cmsmail02.mx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2138318C732 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:26:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from Internal [Internal] by cmsmail02.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer C8.MAIN.3.67U); Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:26:14 -0000 From: "Kathleen Haynie" To: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (C8.MAIN.3.67U) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <451oHkwAo1842T02.1281565574@cmsmail02.cms.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o7BMQkct013698 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: NoFwd@cmsmail02.mx.net, uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:27:20 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:26:14 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:27:20 -0000 I will be away from my office and on vacation from July 30 through August 15th. If you need assistance, please contact my associate, Vonda Johnson, vonda_johnson@hotmail.com. Best, Kathleen C. Haynie, Ph.D. Director, Haynie Research and Evaluation b: 609.466.2990 c: 609.273.8173 ____________________________________________________________________ From cwlee@post.harvard.edu Wed Aug 11 18:41:36 2010 Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7BMfahG014855 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:41:36 -0400 Received: from [4.231.175.187] (helo=System4) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1OjJzL-0004Fw-Hm; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:41:36 -0400 Message-ID: <5656BC229B9C4C88B6D0C27733BF89A5@System4> From: "CWLee" To: References: <451oHkwAo1842T02.1281565574@cmsmail02.cms.usa.net> In-Reply-To: <451oHkwAo1842T02.1281565574@cmsmail02.cms.usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-ELNK-Trace: 7141e3bbddc8a6d4f1b7fbad2ae65da374bf435c0eb9d478a417a4e7c04abcb2a9d0e59768d864f8f6fd83308806bcee350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.231.175.187 Subject: [UUPoly-L] "I will be away ... " messages X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:41:36 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:41:14 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:41:36 -0000 Sometimes the automatic systems that send these "I'll be out of the office" messages have a provision to send it only once for each incoming email address, instead of what is happening here. It seems as if every email sent out on the poly list provokes an email back to everyone stating that Kathleen will be away for a while. I'm mildly annoyed, and wonder if it troubles anyone else. =========================== -------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathleen Haynie" Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 3:26 PM To: Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Prop 8 Ruling > I will be away from my office and on vacation from July 30 > through August > 15th. If you need assistance, please contact my > associate, Vonda Johnson, > vonda_johnson@hotmail.com. > > Best, > > Kathleen C. Haynie, Ph.D. > Director, Haynie Research and Evaluation > > b: 609.466.2990 > c: 609.273.8173 > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From bear@sonic.net Wed Aug 11 19:36:43 2010 Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7BNa98H018162 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 19:36:43 -0400 Received: from [75.101.18.6] (dillingers.com [75.101.18.6]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o7BNa3rx026436 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 16:36:09 -0700 From: Ray Dillinger To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: <5656BC229B9C4C88B6D0C27733BF89A5@System4> References: <451oHkwAo1842T02.1281565574@cmsmail02.cms.usa.net> <5656BC229B9C4C88B6D0C27733BF89A5@System4> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1281569547.12076.9.camel@janus.pagansexcult.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] "I will be away ... " messages X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 23:36:43 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 16:32:27 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 23:36:43 -0000 On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 15:41 -0700, CWLee wrote: > ... every email sent out on the > poly list provokes an email back to everyone stating that > Kathleen will be away for a while. I'm mildly annoyed, and > wonder if it troubles anyone else. I think it's a minor violation of netiquette, but I've long since got over trying to correct people's netiquette. For example, had you not brought up the topic I'd have said nothing about you top-posting over a completely untrimmed message, which is another minor netiquette offense of the same general "it's too much trouble not to waste other people's time and attention in minor ways" variety. Remember kids -- quote just the bits you're replying to, and follow each quoted bit with your reply! Or at least that used to be the rule. These days it's honored mainly in the breach, except by net fossils like me. Bear From what528@yahoo.com Thu Aug 12 10:14:10 2010 Received: from web38607.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38607.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.68]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7CEDawp025287 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:14:10 -0400 Received: (qmail 34286 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Aug 2010 14:13:36 -0000 Message-ID: <362049.33995.qm@web38607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: RHYqcBIVM1nHGTHRiuNmvQfaMGG4EaVqXl3zHM6tDKIcJY4 SZ.03JXnDU.DXMI0Dxkieix.FAkj.jR0yhd_4cNEW0e1629xUQc3GrA_t7fy 05d5JNUUuu3wvQCmaa29kAfT4POyeD7Mwp8lnMzBNRNtf54iCMDT7z1akLNO moidJBBmL2AK_hkle_gX5eTVvUkoBQwZpCYWd1fw1kyFpGG0j4Q1lo.2EsXj hJ96.UcFtlHfS2oG1mTw1dgZd1y8_jgNkB6mmYdU0ClE19O6w9oPG2gjomcq 7KlQHCiGk_J15r5a_yCX8To.yOqh2XgKn2YExhcfB.XDz1ZEWkHz41yZW5t3 u507B3EpB0vLsh0kv4KclYnL_zQ-- Received: from [98.102.247.74] by web38607.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 07:13:36 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/470 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 From: Midas Create To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Local Congregation X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:14:10 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 07:13:35 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:14:10 -0000 I just joined the email list and was wondering if anyone knows where my loc= al =0Achapter is located? I live in Columbus Ohio. I did check the chapters= page =0A(http://www.uupa.org/chapters)=A0but didnt see a local chapter in = Columbus Ohio. I =0Adid see a contact name and have sent an email off, but = just checking to see if =0Aanyone may know.=0A=0AThanks =0A=0A=A0 Tim=0A=0A= =0A From fry.ellen@gmail.com Thu Aug 12 11:37:52 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f47.google.com (mail-yw0-f47.google.com [209.85.213.47]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7CFbpi7030139 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:37:52 -0400 Received: by ywe9 with SMTP id 9so493738ywe.20 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:37:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.161.9 with SMTP id j9mr528856ybe.201.1281627470267; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.83.16 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:37:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <362049.33995.qm@web38607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <362049.33995.qm@web38607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: Ellen Fry To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Local Congregation X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:37:52 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:37:50 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:37:52 -0000 Hey Tim I live in Cleveland and I don't think there's a chapter anywhere near us. Maybe we could start one? On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:13 AM, Midas Create wrote: > I just joined the email list and was wondering if anyone knows where my > local > chapter is located? I live in Columbus Ohio. I did check the chapters page > (http://www.uupa.org/chapters) but didnt see a local chapter in Columbus > Ohio. I > did see a contact name and have sent an email off, but just checking to see > if > anyone may know. > > Thanks > > Tim > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From what528@yahoo.com Thu Aug 12 12:14:59 2010 Received: from smtp108-mob.biz.mail.ac4.yahoo.com (smtp108-mob.biz.mail.ac4.yahoo.com [76.13.13.229]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7CGEPWu000850 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:14:59 -0400 Received: (qmail 59442 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2010 16:14:25 -0000 Received: from [192.168.2.105] (what528@98.102.247.74 with xymcookie) by smtp108-mob.biz.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Aug 2010 09:14:25 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: wxS6TUOswBAm67UKp69jHabQCCU- X-YMail-OSG: sKvcRmQVM1lCfVpNdaN3FT8b3l6THJxChpOQbURqDBBgP._ KeD87A7AAzQSsaoqCqyOH1lZRkDHCiKagnJI1jeyuFj5939cpag9U53zbjW3 gfybE1cqfY540C8OCtR59WKtDih6ZfFeSOrc0ZCxf6.xAtne6p59tsTdDfUE CfdRR0JhYqRJU3K6FtRRK6YcpW8WzltlCiqALaz7293lSsixXn541_1gbRAG 37CHfJMswznqHMZuQfMA4qfQwxsd4NE7kT9ITkZT05OZAyxbEXE1ypcMTKTa UEhuQnuY0gqJVWVvDpJ201ZzmsA-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 References: <362049.33995.qm@web38607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: X-Apple-Yahoo-Original-Message-Folder: Inbox Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 8A293) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <68FB3C9D-8BCB-4AC2-9193-F0958586BC6E@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (8A293) From: What X-Apple-Yahoo-Replied-Msgid: 1_100603_AD99v9EAACuATGQVWAu18RcfhuI To: "uupoly-l@uupa.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o7CGEPWu000850 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Local Congregation X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:14:59 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:14:04 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:14:59 -0000 I am in Columbus but put together http://polyohio.com it is free but I have no affiliation to any groups so I was thinking of forming a chapter Sent from my iPhone On Aug 12, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Ellen Fry wrote: > Hey Tim > > I live in Cleveland and I don't think there's a chapter anywhere near us. > Maybe we could start one? > > On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:13 AM, Midas Create wrote: > >> I just joined the email list and was wondering if anyone knows where my >> local >> chapter is located? I live in Columbus Ohio. I did check the chapters page >> (http://www.uupa.org/chapters) but didnt see a local chapter in Columbus >> Ohio. I >> did see a contact name and have sent an email off, but just checking to see >> if >> anyone may know. >> >> Thanks >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. >> Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. >> UUPoly-L mailing list >> UUPoly-L@uupa.org >> http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >> > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From JasmineGld@aol.com Thu Aug 12 12:16:41 2010 Received: from imr-ma05.mx.aol.com (imr-ma05.mx.aol.com [64.12.100.31]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7CGG5fd001412 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:16:41 -0400 Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-ma05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o7CGFtq1003143 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:15:55 -0400 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id g.c2e.6fd4190c (37691) for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:15:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-d23.mail.aol.com (magic-d23.mail.aol.com [172.19.146.157]) by cia-mb08.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB087-933b4c641e381cb; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:15:52 -0400 From: JasmineGld@aol.com Message-ID: <3b071.48424f81.39957838@aol.com> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5379 X-AOL-IP: 74.130.8.252 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: JasmineGld@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] "I will be away ... " messages X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:16:41 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:15:52 EDT X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:16:41 -0000 In a message dated 8/11/2010 6:41:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cwlee@post.harvard.edu writes: > the automatic systems that send these "I'll be out > of the office" messages ... > I'm mildly annoyed, and > wonder if it troubles anyone else. The automatic "out of office" message is some 20 or 30 lines long. That's easy to skip in individual emails and it's not too difficult to scroll past in a digest. My question is whether the subscriber realized their phone numbers would be posted to this list. Top posting over an entire message -- sometimes hundreds of lines long -- is far more disruptive. In an individual email, the reader runs the risk of tossing new text buried somewhere in the middle unless you scroll down through every line checking. In a digest, the reader has no choice but to scroll thru every line searching for the next new message. Jasmine From onnen.bach@yahoo.com Thu Aug 12 12:32:20 2010 Received: from web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.124.145]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7CGVlHL002633 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:32:20 -0400 Received: (qmail 56007 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Aug 2010 16:31:46 -0000 Message-ID: <764650.54522.qm@web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: hoRF2WgVM1mHU7qFlMMYFbjQ4rSNvknScHOWSFFt3mN9mbv r7eXGjk7ZuiyTVhoj.blRGzse72y3Wfjdeq4wBkkrVe3NalRaXkYXXEtJXEQ mJg.7qASf5Id0kHwM08m8fQ_baKRuCwehUy9pp5pzEp9M1gFaEb._luceDCm mGkWwpzBtjjaX_5MxXUs_jtZYhY4tUOwPFUJkZVnAOFTmHo9iEOfPb0LMcyc DccqRs2j5UIEZzz8DRATDPtKk7VdRQ9X4AUZeZyzzQJd2Kk7tx_51Ocewdmz uAv5vADRXU3wtOi8ULEyMpvop Received: from [67.174.86.78] by web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:31:46 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/470 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: From: Onnen merch Dinogad Chwith To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:32:21 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:31:46 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:32:21 -0000 I am married because of immigration issues. A private contract would not provide for that. ________________________________ From JasmineGld@aol.com Thu Aug 12 12:54:46 2010 Received: from imr-da05.mx.aol.com (imr-da05.mx.aol.com [205.188.105.147]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7CGsDRn004642 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:54:46 -0400 Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-da05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o7CGs5VT014812 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:54:05 -0400 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id g.eef.2ae7ad5 (43816) for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-d23.mail.aol.com (magic-d23.mail.aol.com [172.19.146.157]) by cia-dc01.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADC015-ab284c64272b240; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:54:03 -0400 From: JasmineGld@aol.com Message-ID: <3e378.3a220164.3995812b@aol.com> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5379 X-AOL-IP: 74.130.8.252 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: JasmineGld@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Local Congregation X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:54:47 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:54:03 EDT X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:54:47 -0000 Hi Tim, Welcome to the list. _what528@yahoo.com_ (mailto:what528@yahoo.com) writes: > I just joined the email list and was wondering if > anyone knows where my local chapter is located? > I live in Columbus Ohio. The UUPA chapter closest to Columbus is in Louisville KY, 4 hours away. Are you a member of a UU church in Columbus? _fry.ellen@gmail.com_ (mailto:fry.ellen@gmail.com) writes: > I live in Cleveland and I don't think there's a chapter > anywhere near us. Maybe we could start one? We'd be delighted to have an Ohio chapter of UUPA. What kinds of things do you envision the chapter doing? A regional chapter is certainly a possibility. Keep in mind the limitations it might put on in-person chapter events, to be spread out so far away from each other. You can make it work with online or telephone meetings, when people can't travel, and the benefits of networking within the Ohio Meadville District will be well worth it. Are there other Columbus poly UUs and Cleveland poly UUs? Another option is to find enough poly UUs to form a chapter in each city. The chapters can still get together on occasion. Jasmine From what528@yahoo.com Thu Aug 12 12:58:50 2010 Received: from web38604.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38604.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.65]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7CGwHAe005257 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:58:50 -0400 Received: (qmail 34887 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Aug 2010 16:58:16 -0000 Message-ID: <427456.32991.qm@web38604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: T8h8NjoVM1mR6ZtVRZ2l5L8ePc1Ka8Kh_G6XR01xLHjA.Bi Juri9iW13Lo1C5NU_j.0NIfkRFS3xLLod4KEV46W2q8sH3yrdb8v7SWYP9Ga bb4ldLFo8rMkbtDS1ziql7sYIifo6HqSPEYeEzzaEW9ycd4tMINj3eZUazFf HPUBQ3vmBnqdkNJbam8d66NBY6yj9ZydWnC.aJOmvIsRT2_2REQayLcizqxC em5g9V2pOJP_319mLi8kAaNTIWwehD8KymUexNHYx3aAaNXGM5cjOHHb_s4B czxNUQXQ0wOpMfgdaEuYo5TumB1vtJi26SJqZPN2QCVKYYgPXMZJlT25UG3X Bpkh_7xMCnXmqnGxUj2GfSUjZ6g-- Received: from [98.102.247.74] by web38604.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:58:16 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/470 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: <3e378.3a220164.3995812b@aol.com> From: Midas Create To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: <3e378.3a220164.3995812b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Local Congregation X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:58:51 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:58:16 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:58:51 -0000 Thx,=0A=0A=A0=A0 No I actually just went to the UU church the first time Mo= nday night for a =0Apoly meeting held by a poly columbus yahoo group. I do = have a website =0Ahttp://polyohio.com it is new and I am looking for an aff= iliation, the site is =0Afree and hopefully turns out to be a great resourc= e. =0A=0A=0A=A0=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "Jasmin= eGld@aol.com" =0ATo: uupoly-l@uupa.org=0ASent: Thu, Aug= ust 12, 2010 12:54:03 PM=0ASubject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Local Congregation=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0AHi Tim, Welcome to the list. =0A=0A_what528@yahoo.com_ (mailto:wha= t528@yahoo.com)=A0 writes:=0A=0A> I just joined the email list and was wond= ering if =0A> anyone knows where my local chapter is located?=A0 =0A> I liv= e in Columbus Ohio. =0A=0AThe UUPA chapter closest to Columbus is in Louisv= ille KY, 4 hours=A0 away. =0AAre you a member of a UU church in Columbus? = =0A=0A=0A=0A_fry.ellen@gmail.com_ (mailto:fry.ellen@gmail.com)=A0 writes:= =0A=0A> I live in Cleveland and I don't think there's a chapter=A0 =0A> any= where near us. Maybe we could start one?=0A=0AWe'd be delighted to have an = Ohio chapter of UUPA. What kinds of things=A0 do =0Ayou envision the chapte= r doing? =0A=0A=0AA regional chapter is certainly a possibility. Keep in mi= nd the=A0 =0Alimitations it might put on in-person chapter events, to be sp= read out so far=A0 =0Aaway =0A=0Afrom each other. You can make it work with= online or telephone meetings,=A0 when =0Apeople can't travel, and the bene= fits of networking within the Ohio=A0 =0AMeadville District will be well wo= rth it. =0A=0AAre there other Columbus poly UUs and Cleveland poly UUs? Ano= ther option=A0 =0Ais to find enough poly UUs to form a chapter in each city= . The chapters can=A0 =0Astill get together on occasion. =0A=0A=0A=0AJasmin= e =0A=0A=0A_______________________________________________=0AThe UUPoly-L m= ailing list has public archives.=0APlease keep that in mind when deciding h= ow much to reveal about yourself.=0AUUPoly-L mailing list=0AUUPoly-L@uupa.o= rg=0Ahttp://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l=0A=0A=0A=0A From what528@yahoo.com Thu Aug 12 13:11:35 2010 Received: from web38603.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38603.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.64]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7CHB1lD006909 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:11:35 -0400 Received: (qmail 67810 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Aug 2010 17:11:01 -0000 Message-ID: <55411.66454.qm@web38603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Hct4jc8VM1nQP16Ym.5YdGTivyEexHCydKAfKp3CcECKfB7 zwyPH7RTP8nTsTH62EFHB4w_Y18EUCVl8slCoaYqJeki_UP1kbZlY3S65093 _BexX3gOx2RSU1r71wrv1eeqQDPcEGSmFKZw.M6HL14lZQE1cVpVtwA7p7uS SS1FUFiLQKgGAXYwMWhQDKGUm0l5zd.7YVPNYE17wM.YxSqvQV4HuFD8EKVc RRV1Apz3i0EHOIbHiXuQc0qTTpr3JyJZWOdp7L8H7VB.Lcy53dtY0D9lA_Ua 8_wj1JjuTr2p6lnAf27kQqE8IkpodGxcnz5KGT3mT7yt4I7Yeu2pe1NrzzP6 jQZVlwQrsnDq8Vw-- Received: from [98.102.247.74] by web38603.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:11:00 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/470 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 From: Midas Create To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Columbus & Ohio X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:11:35 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:11:00 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:11:35 -0000 We'd be delighted to have an Ohio chapter of UUPA. What kinds of things=A0 = do =0Ayou envision the chapter doing? =0A=0AMeetings, Support, Socials, May= be even a camp or something who knows...=0A=0A=0AA regional chapter is cert= ainly a possibility. Keep in mind the=A0 =0Alimitations it might put on in-= person chapter events, to be spread out so far=A0 =0Aaway =0A=0Afrom each o= ther. You can make it work with online or telephone meetings,=A0 when =0Ape= ople can't travel, and the benefits of networking within the Ohio=A0 =0AMea= dville District will be well worth it. =0A=0AI think in Columbus we can att= racted enough members for a group but a regional =0Agroup would be much str= onger and give us more options of meetings & events....=0A=A0=0A=0AAre ther= e other Columbus poly UUs and Cleveland poly UUs? Another option=A0 =0Ais t= o find enough poly UUs to form a chapter in each city. The chapters can=A0 = =0Astill get together on occasion. =0A=A0=0AThere is a Columbus UU church b= ut not a UUPA to my understanding, however there =0Aare several poly folks = out here, I was at a meeting at the local UU church that =0Aa poly group ha= d put on, and there were about 20 members there. I have put up an =0Aintern= et resource http://polyohio.com so things like chat / video chat and live = =0Ameetings can happen on the site as well as a whole host of other activit= ies. =0ACheck it out it is free...=0A=0A=0AHope this answer the questions= =0A=0ATimothy=0A=0A=0A From bear@sonic.net Thu Aug 12 13:34:22 2010 Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7CHXmoe008201 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:34:22 -0400 Received: from [75.101.18.6] (dillingers.com [75.101.18.6]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o7CHXmva012025 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:33:48 -0700 From: Ray Dillinger To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: <764650.54522.qm@web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <764650.54522.qm@web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1281634210.31221.43.camel@janus.pagansexcult.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:34:22 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:30:10 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:34:22 -0000 On Thu, 2010-08-12 at 09:31 -0700, Onnen merch Dinogad Chwith wrote: > I am married because of immigration issues. A private contract would not > provide for that. There are so many things it wouldn't provide for. I've been trying to not reply to this, because I don't want to get sucked into lengthy discussion of it, but .... oh well, here goes. The things provided in law for marriage are, in general, things that, for very good reasons, we don't allow private contracting for. I would not want to live in a nation where, for example, an enforceable duty of sexual exclusivity (even if the penalty were "only" employment termination) could be appended to an employment contract. I would not want to be in a place where deadbeat parents could get out of child support or alimony by declaring bankruptcy, in the way they can force a renegotiation of any and all contracts. The interests of a child and the right of a child to the support of both parents may not be negotiated away or diminished by either parent, nor by both acting together, in marriage or divorce. I think that's entirely appropriate and would not like any child's rights to be subject to a contract that could be "renegotiated" without the approval of a representative of society appointed to safeguard the interests of the child. Consider the duties of the INS and the DHS, should a mere *contract* with any citizen provide for the lawful immigration and naturalization of a foreign party. Consider the real need of hospitals to limit patients' exposure to infection, etc. An exception for close family is one thing, but an exception for my employer, or the guy who sold me bubble gum last week, just because they have a contract, is not okay. Consider the farce in the courts if it were legal for mobsters to *hire* people to refuse to testify against them, the way a married couple can claim priveleges against incriminating each other. If the right of non-incrimination can be contracted for, on what legal grounds would we forbid it? If a mere contract had the same force over, say, inheritance, probate, and taxation that marriage holds, think of the thousands of ways people would game the system with contracts engineered for the purpose whenever property were changing hands, and the effect on society at large that this would have. We'd have to throw out our entire body of law and rewrite it from scratch, and it's not at all clear that we could get back anything as good as what we have now. These things, and hundreds of others, are priveleges that attend marriage, and which *should* attend marriage. Most of these priveleges *SHOULD NOT* attend a mere contract. And if you allow them to be subject to contract "but only marriage contracts" then you're back in the zone of state-recognized marriage again. Bear From JasmineGld@aol.com Thu Aug 12 14:03:16 2010 Received: from imr-db03.mx.aol.com (imr-db03.mx.aol.com [205.188.91.97]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7CI2hLW009808 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:03:16 -0400 Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-db03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o7CI2fwS012603 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:02:41 -0400 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id g.bc1.700f360e (34970) for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:02:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-d23.mail.aol.com (magic-d23.mail.aol.com [172.19.146.157]) by cia-da07.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA077-889a4c64373d333; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:02:37 -0400 From: JasmineGld@aol.com Message-ID: <43623.22baa046.3995913d@aol.com> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5379 X-AOL-IP: 74.130.8.252 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: JasmineGld@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Prop 8 Ruling X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 18:03:16 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:02:37 EDT X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 18:03:16 -0000 In a message dated 8/12/2010 1:34:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bear@sonic.net writes: > I would not want to live in a nation where, for example, an > enforceable duty of sexual exclusivity (even if the penalty > were "only" employment termination) could be appended to > an employment contract. And we do in fact have these very sorts of contract terms in effect. In states that do not recognize same sex marriage, some employers will recognize a same sex domestic partnership and grant spousal benefits (healthcare being the most obvious) PROVIDED that the couple swears that they are in an exclusive relationship. If one or both partners of the married couple in the next cubicle has an extramarital liaison, they do not risk losing spousal benefits. But if one or both partners of the domestic relationship couple has a similar extramarital liaison, the employer has a contract permitting them to terminate the spousal benefits, or worse. Bear made a lot of very good points, many of which I hadn't thought of before. Jasmine From Gatsby9@aol.com Thu Aug 12 15:24:45 2010 Received: from imr-db03.mx.aol.com (imr-db03.mx.aol.com [205.188.91.97]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7CJOCCR013622 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:24:45 -0400 Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-db03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o7CJO5rF005550 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:24:06 -0400 Received: from Gatsby9@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id g.c4f.65140ed5 (45498) for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-m22.mail.aol.com (magic-m22.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.195]) by cia-mc08.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMC085-b1ba4c644a54a1; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:24:04 -0400 From: Gatsby9@aol.com Message-ID: To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 29 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 71.66.102.139 X-AOL-IP: 172.20.22.195 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: Gatsby9@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 8 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:24:45 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:24:04 EDT X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:24:45 -0000 Hi Tim and Elley, yes to starting one! In a message dated 8/12/2010 12:00:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, uupoly-l-request@uupa.org writes: From: Ellen Fry Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Local Congregation To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hey Tim I live in Cleveland and I don't think there's a chapter anywhere near us. Maybe we could start one? From what528@yahoo.com Thu Aug 12 15:28:33 2010 Received: from web38604.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38604.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.65]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7CJRx9o014201 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:28:33 -0400 Received: (qmail 27467 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Aug 2010 19:27:59 -0000 Message-ID: <330037.27180.qm@web38604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 00zJLQsVM1mG4_FCCOLxg9BVqW.xvh6dGUsjpjAYN6QKVqv rYs57eZnS9apSc_3Qpe5TagSquozg82FSmcOgrohOkqkaU78XekMEXhhsQhn k8owi30fKrhNnmfYOcuP96zaxGBCdvNV6ZQm3Mxbmi9O6DEYskDtL9EhVzTX SL_xS2NwFQSPUL2Qvnx1qTFSK0mZs3EFY0D9Ur8iO0_zCGalhWbK1dEqDsNs 5mAKRVUO5lTrIDI.r2S0B3XtwXPC_eLNouPTm6VMkeX4CilrahE8Qnf_ahlN 0JJYe7ycY2yNn_j2.zxtiF9Oo_efnCgE99jFWooxG3.C6GXcdLpIGart_HOu QlyFg.GigchcNEZRPUPi0nA4IMg-- Received: from [98.102.247.74] by web38604.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:27:58 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/470 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: From: Midas Create To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 8 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:28:33 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:27:58 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:28:33 -0000 I am all about starting one, I have built a site all ready for the =0Aframe= work...http://polyohio.com so I am indeed into starting a group we will =0A= just all have to talk about how to do it....=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________= ________________=0AFrom: "Gatsby9@aol.com" =0ATo: uupoly-l= @uupa.org=0ASent: Thu, August 12, 2010 3:24:04 PM=0ASubject: Re: [UUPoly-L]= UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 8=0A=0AHi Tim and Elley, yes to starting on= e!=0A=0A=0AIn a message dated 8/12/2010 12:00:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time= ,=A0 =0Auupoly-l-request@uupa.org writes:=0A=0AFrom:=A0 Ellen Fry =0ASubject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Local=A0 Congregation=0ATo: uupoly-l= @uupa.org=0AMessage-ID:=0A=0AContent-Type:=A0 text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1=0A=0AHe= y Tim=0A=0AI live in Cleveland and I=A0 don't think there's a chapter anywh= ere near us.=0AMaybe we could start=A0 one?=0A=0A=0A_______________________= ________________________=0AThe UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives.= =0APlease keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself= .=0AUUPoly-L mailing list=0AUUPoly-L@uupa.org=0Ahttp://www.uupa.org/mailman= /listinfo/uupoly-l=0A=0A=0A=0A From fry.ellen@gmail.com Thu Aug 12 15:59:57 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f175.google.com (mail-gy0-f175.google.com [209.85.160.175]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7CJxuC2016264 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:59:56 -0400 Received: by gyd8 with SMTP id 8so621929gyd.20 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:59:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.62.36 with SMTP id p36mr978730ybk.130.1281643196453; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.83.16 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:59:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Ellen Fry To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 8 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:59:57 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:59:56 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:59:57 -0000 Hey I didn't realize you were on this list, but I shouldn't be surprised. :) I tried running a poly group on meetup.com before. but then the site told me they were going to close my group if i didn't give them money, and then i didn't give them money and we stopped having meetups, then i guess someone else gave them money? i don't know what's going on with that. http://www.meetup.com/Cleveland-Polyamory/ I'll check out your site, Tim On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 3:24 PM, wrote: > Hi Tim and Elley, yes to starting one! > > > In a message dated 8/12/2010 12:00:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > uupoly-l-request@uupa.org writes: > > From: Ellen Fry > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Local Congregation > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hey Tim > > I live in Cleveland and I don't think there's a chapter anywhere near us. > Maybe we could start one? > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From what528@yahoo.com Thu Aug 12 16:04:26 2010 Received: from web38601.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38601.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.62]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7CK3qGY016859 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:04:26 -0400 Received: (qmail 68038 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Aug 2010 20:03:52 -0000 Message-ID: <467723.66544.qm@web38601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: L6QMB0UVM1n1pVM8DBgC5XYlRLyX88.9clQOJ1L6tJeKGem gQkhJgkvGkP38hp6UUsXoki79AgChwCYPSM1GIZXBJukq1s9Btdsc5BpgRo5 3ed5Lj.jYG4TAh.CJWQCOMLMzRDMX8TuFUzLZRjLxwK_igWoT.t7sshOC3jf p2dJJpM.BchI9iO1UlOBdemkOs1BZxRzuvnL64gEDCFnZNtxLZNixj5zuvBr cXObXBpWAqWZ0YYiOI5Yu4ndi3n7gFBGT7rWrHF1AoNGtJnYNRoRCglkZpZx aXrTb0XD48k4ZjulnfMvz1xC7zJ7tyV8Un7VnYz42n3el8anxmaIP4A5hWmg 6BCOwEIh2akJaukIFLpxWEtDD9f4FkdzM4cXdlQ-- Received: from [98.102.247.74] by web38601.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:03:52 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/470 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: From: Midas Create To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 8 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:04:26 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:03:52 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:04:26 -0000 Yeah I am not a huge meetup fan , my site has so much more on it anyway, ch= at, =0Amessenger, video chat, chat rooms, videos, photos, recipe exchange, = games, =0Adestinations, events, everyone gets there own blog, forums, artic= les (everyone =0Acan write articles), News , Polls, Groups, catagories, per= sonals, sites, links =0Aand so much more....=0A=0ASo much better with tools= for online community building to support the offline =0Ameetings...=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ellen Fry =0ATo: uupoly-l@uupa.org=0ASent: Thu, August 12, 2010 3:59:56 PM=0ASu= bject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 8=0A=0AHey I didn't re= alize you were on this list, but I shouldn't be surprised. :)=0A=0AI tried = running a poly group on meetup.com before.=A0 but then the site told=0Ame t= hey were going to close my group if i didn't give them money, and then i=0A= didn't give them money and we stopped having meetups, then i guess someone= =0Aelse gave them money?=A0 i don't know what's going on with that.=0Ahttp:= //www.meetup.com/Cleveland-Polyamory/=0A=0AI'll check out your site, Tim=0A= =0A=0AOn Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 3:24 PM, wrote:=0A=0A> Hi T= im and Elley, yes to starting one!=0A>=0A>=0A> In a message dated 8/12/2010= 12:00:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=0A> uupoly-l-request@uupa.org writes:= =0A>=0A> From:=A0 Ellen Fry =0A> Subject: Re: [UUPoly-= L] Local=A0 Congregation=0A> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org=0A> Message-ID:=0A>=0A>>=0A> >=0A> Content-Type:=A0 t= ext/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1=0A>=0A> Hey Tim=0A>=0A> I live in Cleveland= and I=A0 don't think there's a chapter anywhere near us.=0A> Maybe we coul= d start=A0 one?=0A>=0A>=0A> _______________________________________________= =0A> The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives.=0A> Please keep that in= mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself.=0A> UUPoly-L mailing= list=0A> UUPoly-L@uupa.org=0A> http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly= -l=0A>=0A_______________________________________________=0AThe UUPoly-L mai= ling list has public archives.=0APlease keep that in mind when deciding how= much to reveal about yourself.=0AUUPoly-L mailing list=0AUUPoly-L@uupa.org= =0Ahttp://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l=0A=0A=0A=0A From what528@yahoo.com Thu Aug 12 16:14:29 2010 Received: from web38608.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38608.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.69]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7CKDuxr017742 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:14:29 -0400 Received: (qmail 41395 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Aug 2010 20:13:55 -0000 Message-ID: <766904.40419.qm@web38608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: br2iOmEVM1kcfd6inLK4x_Kfkrt5wUHb6bH.WY6ERHXgmq_ q84hhItJzJOOCPMI_1CAbugGykiXhpwKQ_tzsvqdgX6rIhUOEvzXnxlpNpiD 2DvYqP_QHh0xP7cDRwysbNLJU0cJQfBaXF_j4KtQcZK7WFV1Ii5LqQE9rSDO xyx3DgEsd9.qU6ICp5CzFEWt4Uw9zv086V0tHnXOZ2.K5RyTanRtUSLDXcD3 5vbbrGFtLrmRBOxk_HXXgt_3_q6PxGCSlapCppoinwrcbBoL4GiYq8yn_L5e 14fvVeWL._jkmhf7mNqVCu76DA7taoA55XnTNso8XjAcf_ARdlfmWuhUFyFu RUVAXi_xDv_aBJL7nrcYfnVCqwKdWPpkd5Y394A-- Received: from [98.102.247.74] by web38608.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:13:55 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/470 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: From: Midas Create To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 8 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:14:29 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:13:55 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:14:29 -0000 Ellen,=0A=0ALet me know what you think of the site, it is a work in progres= s.....=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ellen Fry =0ATo: uupoly-l@uupa.org=0ASent: Thu, August 12, 2010 3:5= 9:56 PM=0ASubject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 8=0A=0AHey= I didn't realize you were on this list, but I shouldn't be surprised. :)= =0A=0AI tried running a poly group on meetup.com before.=A0 but then the si= te told=0Ame they were going to close my group if i didn't give them money,= and then i=0Adidn't give them money and we stopped having meetups, then i = guess someone=0Aelse gave them money?=A0 i don't know what's going on with = that.=0Ahttp://www.meetup.com/Cleveland-Polyamory/=0A=0AI'll check out your= site, Tim=0A=0A=0AOn Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 3:24 PM, wrote= :=0A=0A> Hi Tim and Elley, yes to starting one!=0A>=0A>=0A> In a message da= ted 8/12/2010 12:00:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=0A> uupoly-l-request@uup= a.org writes:=0A>=0A> From:=A0 Ellen Fry =0A> Subject:= Re: [UUPoly-L] Local=A0 Congregation=0A> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org=0A> Message= -ID:=0A>=0A>>=0A> >=0A> Conte= nt-Type:=A0 text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1=0A>=0A> Hey Tim=0A>=0A> I live= in Cleveland and I=A0 don't think there's a chapter anywhere near us.=0A> = Maybe we could start=A0 one?=0A>=0A>=0A> __________________________________= _____________=0A> The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives.=0A> Please= keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself.=0A> UUP= oly-L mailing list=0A> UUPoly-L@uupa.org=0A> http://www.uupa.org/mailman/li= stinfo/uupoly-l=0A>=0A_______________________________________________=0AThe= UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives.=0APlease keep that in mind when= deciding how much to reveal about yourself.=0AUUPoly-L mailing list=0AUUPo= ly-L@uupa.org=0Ahttp://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l=0A=0A=0A=0A = From desmondravenstone@yahoo.com Thu Aug 12 19:20:06 2010 Received: from web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.38.78]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7CNK6Tr026228 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:20:06 -0400 Received: (qmail 93874 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Aug 2010 23:20:05 -0000 Message-ID: <209874.81599.qm@web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: lWM0c9MVM1nNF9xcm2dAfmYc6hkMzdwaVii8gxgQ8QUdTtI vZuywV908JL7DFwBUKfWG4OENBW5TfLVmoPq5KjRGElv_ccNOOSB3s.4cnRx w02Yp7rPbws3ZfvhDvNVMG72KXe_y2ZhlJwLNHDpp_.DTx.q52OUQOK.MTng 4cHZDJ2ONiDc_VoDcRFbI3qVcgoT50J33SejyCGeVMnFgImx9iMXABmwjGa. xfYTeEAa9W_hwsbc63CaHmJobv0zUY_QvMPDYqC5FeOD0yf9KmpDd1KxgHtQ 8l3UFNASRbuf_taVFgo.zcrYzYid512_rPyDyEG8BltNX Received: from [173.115.34.172] by web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:20:05 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/470 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: <43623.22baa046.3995913d@aol.com> From: Desmond Ravenstone To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: <43623.22baa046.3995913d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Contracts versus licensure (was: UUPoly-L Prop 8 Ruling) X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 23:20:06 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:20:05 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 23:20:06 -0000 Let me first respond to=A0the=A0phrase "mere contract" ...=A0There are many= different =0Akinds of contracts out there.=A0 A=A0rental lease is a contra= ct.=A0 An agreement among =0Aindividuals to start a business or non-profit = organization is a form of =0Acontract.=A0 And, in a manner of speaking, a m= arriage license is a=A0form of =0Acontract.=0A=0AContracts are enforceable = by law.=A0 Corporate/collective entities formed by =0Acontract are recogniz= ed by law,=A0with specific rights and responsibilities =0Aspelled out.=A0 A= nd a marriage can be seen as a form of collective or corporate =0Aentity.= =A0 The difference between a government-issued marriage license, and a =0Ap= rivately-enacted and registered marriage contract, is that=A0the former=A0d= ictates =0Athe terms under which you can=A0enter=A0the relationship (gender= , exclusivity, etc.) =0Awhile the latter allows the parties entering the re= lationship to have=A0their =0Asay.=A0 Other than that, the same rights and = responsibilities once married would =0Aremain; the change would be in the p= rocess of getting married, with the burden =0Ashifting from spouses having = to prove they can marry to government having to =0Aprove that they can't.= =0A=0ALastly,=A0the concept of legally recognized marriage contracts does h= ave a =0Aprecedent.=A0 Scotland allowed for "marriage by declaration" by th= e=A0spouses, =0Awithout the need for officiants or government permission, f= or generations.=A0 It =0Awasn't until the British Parliament insisted on "u= niform" marriage laws --=A0so as =0Ato prevent all those=A0English couples = eloping to Scotland -- that=A0it was done =0Aaway with.=A0 And before that,= marriage by declaration worked just fine.=A0 Marriage =0Acontracts would= =A0work just as well.=0A=A0Desmond Ravenstone =0A=0A"What you call sin, I c= all the great spirit of love, which takes a thousand =0Aforms..."=0A=0Ahttp= ://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com=0Ahttp://www.myspace.com/desmond_rav= enstone =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "JasmineGld= @aol.com" =0ATo: uupoly-l@uupa.org=0ASent: Thu, August = 12, 2010 2:02:37 PM=0ASubject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Prop 8 Ruling=0A=0A= =0AIn a message dated 8/12/2010 1:34:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=A0 =0Ab= ear@sonic.net writes:=0A=0A> I would not want to live in a nation where, fo= r example,=A0 an=0A> enforceable duty of sexual exclusivity (even if the pe= nalty=A0 =0A> were "only" employment termination) could be appended to =0A>= an=A0 employment contract. =0A=0AAnd we do in fact have these very sorts o= f contract terms in effect. In=A0 =0Astates that do not recognize same sex = marriage, some employers will recognize=A0 =0Aa same sex domestic partnersh= ip and grant spousal benefits (healthcare =0Abeing=A0 the most obvious) PRO= VIDED that the couple swears that they are in an=A0 =0Aexclusive relationsh= ip. =0A=0AIf one or both partners of the married couple in the next cubicle= has an=A0 =0Aextramarital liaison, they do not risk losing spousal benefit= s. But if one or =0Aboth partners of the domestic relationship couple has a= similar =0Aextramarital=A0 liaison, the employer has a contract permitting= them to terminate =0Athe =0A=0Aspousal=A0 benefits, or worse. =0A=0ABear m= ade a lot of very good points, many of which I hadn't thought of=A0 =0Abefo= re. =0A=0AJasmine =0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________________________________= __=0AThe UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives.=0APlease keep that in m= ind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself.=0AUUPoly-L mailing lis= t=0AUUPoly-L@uupa.org=0Ahttp://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l=0A=0A= =0A=0A From MAILER-DAEMON@msb.ernest-doss.org Thu Aug 12 19:21:20 2010 Received: from cmsmail01.mx.net (cmsmail01.mx.net [165.212.10.21]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7CNKlIT026481 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:21:20 -0400 Received: from cmsmail01.cms.usa.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by cmsmail01.mx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BB29340C02 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 23:20:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from Internal [Internal] by cmsmail01.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer C8.MAIN.3.67U); Thu, 12 Aug 2010 23:20:15 -0000 From: "Kathleen Haynie" To: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (C8.MAIN.3.67U) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <916oHLXuP0393T01.1281655215@cmsmail01.cms.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o7CNKlIT026481 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Contracts versus licensure (was: UUPoly-L Prop 8 Ruling) X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: NoFwd@cmsmail01.mx.net, uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 23:21:21 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 23:20:15 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 23:21:21 -0000 I will be away from my office and on vacation from July 30 through August 15th. If you need assistance, please contact my associate, Vonda Johnson, vonda_johnson@hotmail.com. Best, Kathleen C. Haynie, Ph.D. Director, Haynie Research and Evaluation b: 609.466.2990 c: 609.273.8173 ____________________________________________________________________ From gaylenwoof@yahoo.com Fri Aug 13 09:38:48 2010 Received: from n10.bullet.re3.yahoo.com (n10.bullet.re3.yahoo.com [68.142.237.123]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7DDcEoH031508 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 09:38:48 -0400 Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n10.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Aug 2010 13:38:14 -0000 Received: from [66.196.97.134] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Aug 2010 13:38:14 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp107.mail.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Aug 2010 13:38:14 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 745782.48404.bm@omp107.mail.re3.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 96049 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Aug 2010 13:38:14 -0000 Message-ID: <578956.95259.qm@web53102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: d.jg2csVM1kmmjm8g04sFYKwpAJa0.HpCPryWhZe1E3z5Kt DNGvGwhXwKczKm4J87xGK6uBSYBia1.CmsBwROKP9i_7tvr5f9rJtSbMzO1n vyhhSSVhQabC3H7bSoqTXbhF7DoXnP64_argaKzrMn0Y2rtV4Z4nG_RTuhUI ojsyFdOZNv11Cu_zOOOmp6SJj8GRfk3Npjn2WaSnLYew0zTb5kgfflXSjaqB .KplYoJA7ttDZ5v3pBLVYpwTGOPfYWncuOMrZgMlIqCkvfVMCYj39LtS18Qx 9YDowLDMG2RWeGhcnNYfvlj0Myklw_FaS2gj_DMM9_InlSWgS0kho9Znwstv 9SGnFgQwWntoM0dXU_lJ6ws_2Tg-- Received: from [131.123.195.73] by web53102.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 06:38:14 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.3.2 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 From: Gaylen Moore To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 9 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:38:48 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 06:38:14 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:38:48 -0000 We are in the Cleveland area too. I will check out your Polyohio link. =A0 -Gaylen ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:27:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Midas Create Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 8 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: <330037.27180.qm@web38604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1 I am all about starting one, I have built a site all ready for the=20 framework...http://polyohio.com so I am indeed into starting a group we wil= l=20 just all have to talk about how to do it.... End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 9 *************************************** =0A=0A=0A From kb4wyr@fhrd.net Sun Aug 15 10:13:15 2010 Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7FECfSf001120 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 10:13:15 -0400 Received: (qmail 10782 invoked by uid 1006); 15 Aug 2010 14:12:41 -0000 Received: from kb4wyr@fhrd.net by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.2.5. Clear:SA:0(2.0/100.0):. Processed in 0.281249 secs); 15 Aug 2010 14:12:41 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.0 required=100.0 X-Spam-Level: ** Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.16) by director.trueband.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2010 14:12:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 10691 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2010 14:12:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Verdigrismobile) (70.12.57.175) by -v with SMTP; 15 Aug 2010 14:12:37 -0000 From: "Christine Heinsohn" To: , "'OKPoly'" , , , Message-ID: <011e01cb3c83$e8c55560$ba500020$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 thread-index: Acs8g9g676P7pKKYTPSSIR6hVVFsSw== Content-Language: en-us x-cr-hashedpuzzle: Ayyh CPs+ FALW JzzY KLha Lqeb MBpW NVV+ RWZ5 R+SH ZojT asTu qdDF raML sR/s 2New; 5; awBhAG4AcABvAGwAeQBAAHkAYQBoAG8AbwBnAHIAbwB1AHAAcwAuAGMAbwBtADsAbQB3AHAAbwBsAHkAQAB5AGEAaABvAG8ALgBjAG8AbQA7AG8AawBwAG8AbAB5AEAAeQBhAGgAbwBvAGcAcgBvAHUAcABzAC4AYwBvAG0AOwB1AHUAcABvAGwAeQAtAGwAQAB1AHUAcABhAC4AbwByAGcAOwB3AG4AeQBwAG8AbAB5AEAAeQBhAGgAbwBvAGcAcgBvAHUAcABzAC4AYwBvAG0A; Sosha1_v1; 7; {36D724E1-D133-4747-9DC8-1CBB4A4C0988}; awBiADQAdwB5AHIAQABmAGgAcgBkAC4AbgBlAHQA; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 14:12:07 GMT; VwBhAHIAbgBpAG4AZwAgAHMAaQBnAG4AcwAgAG8AZgAgAHIAZQBsAGEAdABpAG8AbgBzAGgAaQBwACAAZABlAG0AaQBzAGUA x-cr-puzzleid: {36D724E1-D133-4747-9DC8-1CBB4A4C0988} Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Warning signs of relationship demise X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 14:13:15 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 09:12:32 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 14:13:15 -0000 This article is from the AARP Magazine. Some of you are too young to subscribe :) I recently watched a relationship of about 15 years collapse. As I read this article and reflected, many of the warning signs were there. I had seen them, I had not ignored them, but I had accepted the explanations that discounted them. Hopefully, next time I will see them and say, "Get thee to a counselor!" http://www.aarp.org/relationships/love-sex/info-07-2010/naked-truth-fighting -the-40year-itch.html Christine From aine.maire@gmail.com Sun Aug 15 12:00:53 2010 Received: from mail-qw0-f47.google.com (mail-qw0-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7FG0rah006414 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 12:00:53 -0400 Received: by qwi2 with SMTP id 2so3837640qwi.20 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 09:00:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.62.199 with SMTP id y7mr2572231qah.293.1281888053371; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 09:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.242.77 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 09:00:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <011e01cb3c83$e8c55560$ba500020$@net> References: <011e01cb3c83$e8c55560$ba500020$@net> Message-ID: From: aine.maire@gmail.com To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Warning signs of relationship demise X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 16:00:53 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 12:00:53 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 16:00:53 -0000 Very good advice and not the sky is falling variety. The last one is the only one I tend to question. Sometimes the best thing to do is leave the relationship, so working towards that end is the right thing. My S.O. is with his O.S.O. this weekend. The time apart is good for both of us. I get to spoil the dogs and curl up with them on the bed after studying for my semester finals. So having separate interests (or in poly, partners) can be good for relationships. Christine, we have all been blindsided at seeing someone's longterm relationship end at some time. I honestly don't know the answer for that. Sometimes I have seen the warning signs and other times I've been completely surprised. In either case, I try to be supportive of the decisions friends and family make and not play the "what if..." game too often. Namaste, Annie:) -- I think dogs are the most amazing creatures. They give unconditional love. For me, they are the role model for being alive. ~Gilda Radner You think dogs will not be in heaven? I tell you, they will be there long before any of us. ~Robert Louis Stevenson From aine.maire@gmail.com Sun Aug 15 12:04:22 2010 Received: from mail-qw0-f47.google.com (mail-qw0-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7FG4Luv006981 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 12:04:21 -0400 Received: by qwi2 with SMTP id 2so3839204qwi.20 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 09:04:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.28.207 with SMTP id n15mr2555146qac.148.1281888261572; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 09:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.242.77 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 09:04:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <578956.95259.qm@web53102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <578956.95259.qm@web53102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: aine.maire@gmail.com To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 9 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 16:04:22 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 12:04:21 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 16:04:22 -0000 I'll have to check it out when I'm not at work. I recognized a couple usernames there, so it's probably a good group. I'm mostly involved with kink and poly in Cleveland, but am willing to make friends anywhere. Annie:) On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 09:38, Gaylen Moore wrote: > We are in the Cleveland area too. I will check out your Polyohio link. > > -Gaylen > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:27:58 -0700 (PDT) > From: Midas Create > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 8 > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Message-ID: <330037.27180.qm@web38604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > I am all about starting one, I have built a site all ready for the > framework...http://polyohio.com so I am indeed into starting a group we > will > just all have to talk about how to do it.... > > > End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 9 > *************************************** > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > -- I think dogs are the most amazing creatures. They give unconditional love. For me, they are the role model for being alive. ~Gilda Radner You think dogs will not be in heaven? I tell you, they will be there long before any of us. ~Robert Louis Stevenson From kb4wyr@fhrd.net Sun Aug 15 13:19:48 2010 Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7FHJEvp010865 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:19:48 -0400 Received: (qmail 8321 invoked by uid 1006); 15 Aug 2010 17:19:14 -0000 Received: from kb4wyr@fhrd.net by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.2.5. Clear:SA:0(2.0/100.0):. Processed in 0.625056 secs); 15 Aug 2010 17:19:14 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.0 required=100.0 X-Spam-Level: ** Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.5) by director.trueband.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2010 17:19:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 6474 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2010 17:19:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Verdigrismobile) (173.158.75.193) by -v with SMTP; 15 Aug 2010 17:19:12 -0000 From: "Christine Heinsohn" To: References: <011e01cb3c83$e8c55560$ba500020$@net> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <015001cb3c9d$f9325af0$eb9710d0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 thread-index: Acs8kxFmXtVU3q2xQQSrTVGrs1CGhQACneLA Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Warning signs of relationship demise X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:19:48 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 12:19:07 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:19:48 -0000 Annie, After reading my post, my husband did say that I had told the couple that a counseler might be a good idea. Guess I forgot that! But for some reason they both had excuses about why that was not going to happen. In my book their kids are now paying for that stupidity. I am not saying they might not have still decided to dissolve the relationship, but rather that they might have done in a way that was less damaging to themselves and others. What is that old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." In this case, I could not make them drink! Christine -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=fhrd.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of aine.maire@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 11:01 AM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Warning signs of relationship demise Very good advice and not the sky is falling variety. The last one is the only one I tend to question. Sometimes the best thing to do is leave the relationship, so working towards that end is the right thing. My S.O. is with his O.S.O. this weekend. The time apart is good for both of us. I get to spoil the dogs and curl up with them on the bed after studying for my semester finals. So having separate interests (or in poly, partners) can be good for relationships. Christine, we have all been blindsided at seeing someone's longterm relationship end at some time. I honestly don't know the answer for that. Sometimes I have seen the warning signs and other times I've been completely surprised. In either case, I try to be supportive of the decisions friends and family make and not play the "what if..." game too often. Namaste, Annie:) -- I think dogs are the most amazing creatures. They give unconditional love. For me, they are the role model for being alive. ~Gilda Radner You think dogs will not be in heaven? I tell you, they will be there long before any of us. ~Robert Louis Stevenson _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3071 - Release Date: 08/15/10 01:35:00 From windchime80@hotmail.com Mon Aug 16 00:14:40 2010 Received: from snt0-omc2-s24.snt0.hotmail.com (snt0-omc2-s24.snt0.hotmail.com [65.55.90.99]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7G4E6mb005747 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 00:14:40 -0400 Received: from SNT116-W49 ([65.55.90.73]) by snt0-omc2-s24.snt0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:13:45 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [77.29.164.126] From: Lori M To: , , , , , , Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Aug 2010 04:13:45.0332 (UTC) FILETIME=[6B348B40:01CB3CF9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] (no subject) X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 04:14:40 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 04:13:45 +0000 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 04:14:40 -0000 http://nso6.deals-health.com = From aine.maire@gmail.com Mon Aug 16 06:46:49 2010 Received: from mail-qw0-f47.google.com (mail-qw0-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7GAkn5x023045 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 06:46:49 -0400 Received: by qwi2 with SMTP id 2so97629qwi.20 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 03:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.96.155 with SMTP id h27mr3096648qan.280.1281955607140; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 03:46:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.242.77 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 03:46:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: aine.maire@gmail.com Message-ID: To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Cc: zenbudda4114@yahoo.com, drakolich@hotmail.com, zekemartin@msn.com, barturtle@excite.com, kell4077@hotmail.com, victorium32@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] (no subject) X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:46:50 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 06:46:17 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:46:50 -0000 Is this legit? Or did some spam get a hold of your address book? Annie:) I think dogs are the most amazing creatures. They give unconditional love. For me, they are the role model for being alive. ~Gilda Radner You think dogs will not be in heaven? I tell you, they will be there long before any of us. ~Robert Louis Stevenson On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 00:13, Lori M wrote: > http://nso6.deals-health.com > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From acknchip@pacbell.net Mon Aug 16 12:34:06 2010 Received: from web81704.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81704.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.168]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7GGXWeP008701 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 12:34:06 -0400 Received: (qmail 97748 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Aug 2010 16:33:31 -0000 Message-ID: <776557.93825.qm@web81704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Q7G6iJMVM1ll0O0xvBkrJ.VnescFq.6usyEy70mDuAy2M7R TB.LXKAUfzenCCBZ_YU6MYKyK5lDTg.1C4HcnQrkGE9XSfv.uYiREde2SGUk t.LRahHp_h0VztlmYEFpBgX3tTRRwjDjZ6Gp0bxHFZlwSHsiY04e0YSykeCo guVBd0FokSjuz6FI4x3J_cCSJwHtJu.fCi8si8he50NyEijf8ZFKOHeK.LaC z8nNhcqiXbovJezMHO5nH.JSWL9a3jNb1oCj.mcm9EmapbPKq5k8WNlGQI37 GKLvziio.DVz7Uj9XQComJVIc5_8oDaaS6X3QLXbwny1em_HpQTPf1veMpzs MZ2SFgP.WvODoeBU3zJy3SJ8KM6Z2 Received: from [99.87.229.115] by web81704.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:33:31 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.3.2 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 From: Mel Fleming II To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 12 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:34:06 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:33:31 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:34:06 -0000 Had anyone seen my message? I was interested in starting a UU Poly chapter = inCalifornia, in the Inland Empire area. Mel --- On Mon, 8/16/10, uupoly-l-request@uupa.org = wrote: From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 12 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 9:00 AM Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to =A0=A0=A0 uupoly-l@uupa.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit =A0=A0=A0 http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to =A0=A0=A0 uupoly-l-request@uupa.org You can reach the person managing the list at =A0=A0=A0 uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." Today's Topics: =A0=A0=A01. Re: Warning signs of relationship demise (aine.maire@gmail.com) =A0=A0=A02. Re: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 9 (aine.maire@gmail.com) =A0=A0=A03. Re: Warning signs of relationship demise (Christine Heinsohn) =A0=A0=A04. (no subject) (Lori M) =A0=A0=A05. Re: (no subject) (aine.maire@gmail.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 12:00:53 -0400 From: aine.maire@gmail.com Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Warning signs of relationship demise To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: =A0=A0=A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 Very good advice and not the sky is falling variety. The last one is the only one I tend to question. Sometimes the best thing to do is leave the relationship, so working towards that end is the right thing. My S.O. is with his O.S.O. this weekend. The time apart is good for both of us. I get to spoil the dogs and curl up with them on the bed after studying for my semester finals. So having separate interests (or in poly, partners) can be good for relationships. Christine, we have all been blindsided at seeing someone's longterm relationship end at some time. I honestly don't know the answer for that. Sometimes I have seen the warning signs and other times I've been completel= y surprised. In either case, I try to be supportive of the decisions friends and family make and not play the "what if..." game too often. Namaste, Annie:) --=20 I think dogs are the most amazing creatures. They give unconditional love. For me, they are the role model for being alive. ~Gilda Radner You think dogs will not be in heaven? I tell you, they will be there long before any of us. ~Robert Louis Stevenson ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 12:04:21 -0400 From: aine.maire@gmail.com Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 9 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: =A0=A0=A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 I'll have to check it out when I'm not at work. I recognized a couple usernames there, so it's probably a good group. I'm mostly involved with kink and poly in Cleveland, but am willing to make friends anywhere. Annie:) On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 09:38, Gaylen Moore wrote: > We are in the Cleveland area too. I will check out your Polyohio link. > > -Gaylen > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:27:58 -0700 (PDT) > From: Midas Create > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 8 > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Message-ID: <330037.27180.qm@web38604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1 > > I am all about starting one, I have built a site all ready for the > framework...http://polyohio.com so I am indeed into starting a group we > will > just all have to talk about how to do it.... > > > End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 9 > *************************************** > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > --=20 I think dogs are the most amazing creatures. They give unconditional love. For me, they are the role model for being alive. ~Gilda Radner You think dogs will not be in heaven? I tell you, they will be there long before any of us. ~Robert Louis Stevenson ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 12:19:07 -0500 From: "Christine Heinsohn" Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Warning signs of relationship demise To: Message-ID: <015001cb3c9d$f9325af0$eb9710d0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain;=A0=A0=A0 charset=3D"us-ascii" Annie,=20 After reading my post, my husband did say that I had told the couple that a counseler might be a good idea.=A0 Guess I forgot that!=A0 But for some rea= son they both had excuses about why that was not going to happen.=A0 In my book their kids are now paying for that stupidity.=A0 I am not saying they might not have still decided to dissolve the relationship, but rather that they might have done in a way that was less damaging to themselves and others. What is that old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." In this case, I could not make them drink! Christine -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=3Dfhrd.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+kb4wyr=3Dfhrd.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of aine.maire@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 11:01 AM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Warning signs of relationship demise Very good advice and not the sky is falling variety. The last one is the only one I tend to question. Sometimes the best thing to do is leave the relationship, so working towards that end is the right thing. My S.O. is with his O.S.O. this weekend. The time apart is good for both of us. I get to spoil the dogs and curl up with them on the bed after studying for my semester finals. So having separate interests (or in poly, partners) can be good for relationships. Christine, we have all been blindsided at seeing someone's longterm relationship end at some time. I honestly don't know the answer for that. Sometimes I have seen the warning signs and other times I've been completel= y surprised. In either case, I try to be supportive of the decisions friends and family make and not play the "what if..." game too often. Namaste, Annie:) --=20 I think dogs are the most amazing creatures. They give unconditional love. For me, they are the role model for being alive. ~Gilda Radner You think dogs will not be in heaven? I tell you, they will be there long before any of us. ~Robert Louis Stevenson _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3071 - Release Date: 08/15/10 01:35:00 ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 04:13:45 +0000 From: Lori M Subject: [UUPoly-L] (no subject) To: , , =A0=A0=A0 ,=A0=A0=A0 , , =A0=A0=A0 , =A0=A0=A0 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" http://nso6.deals-health.com =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=20 ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 06:46:17 -0400 From: aine.maire@gmail.com Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] (no subject) To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Cc: zenbudda4114@yahoo.com, drakolich@hotmail.com, zekemartin@msn.com, =A0=A0=A0 barturtle@excite.com, kell4077@hotmail.com, victorium32@yahoo.com Message-ID: =A0=A0=A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 Is this legit? Or did some spam get a hold of your address book? Annie:) I think dogs are the most amazing creatures. They give unconditional love. For me, they are the role model for being alive. ~Gilda Radner You think dogs will not be in heaven? I tell you, they will be there long before any of us. ~Robert Louis Stevenson On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 00:13, Lori M wrote: > http://nso6.deals-health.com > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 12 **************************************** From JasmineGld@aol.com Wed Aug 18 17:45:20 2010 Received: from imr-mb02.mx.aol.com (imr-mb02.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.163]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7ILikG2012008 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:45:20 -0400 Received: from imo-da02.mx.aol.com (imo-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.200]) by imr-mb02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o7ILieKG002855; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:44:40 -0400 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-da02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id r.ef8.3b03eb7 (37085); Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:44:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-m16.mail.aol.com (magic-m16.mail.aol.com [172.21.188.208]) by cia-db06.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB067-90dd4c6c54451e9; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:44:37 -0400 From: JasmineGld@aol.com Message-ID: <169d8.39b926ac.399dae45@aol.com> To: KYPolyList@yahoogroups.com, ohiovalleypoly@yahoogroups.com, NEOPoly@yahoogroups.com, uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5450 X-AOL-IP: 74.130.8.252 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: JasmineGld@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Fwd: New Website on Coming Out as Poly X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 21:45:20 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:44:37 EDT X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 21:45:20 -0000 =20 NEW WEBSITE ON COMING OUT AS POLY=20 As I=E2=80=99ve sat and talked with many poly people in the past few year= s, there=20 is always a recurring conversation: =E2=80=9CHave you come out to your fa= mily?=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9C Do your other friends know?=E2=80=9D =20 As a community, we seem to be at a place where many of us have accepted= =20 our identities, have partnerships that make us overjoyed, have many poly= =20 friends, and yet=E2=80=A6 there are many people -- people who mean a lot= to us -- who=20 we are just not willing to tell.=20 Coming out is rarely easy. With considerable help, I put together this=20 website to help poly people share their experiences of coming out. The go= al is=20 to provide examples of how easy, heartrending, delicate, difficult, or=20 fulfilling coming out can be. Through seeing others=E2=80=99 experiences= we can=20 realize that we are far from alone, and we can find ideas on how to have= =E2=80=9Cthe=20 conversation=E2=80=9D with our loved ones. =20 Please look over the stories and resources. And share your own stories,= =20 pictures, advice, links, artwork, and ideas (crazy or otherwise) in the= =20 _Community'>http://openlypoly.net/community/">Community_=20 (mip://0891ef48/!=20 Follow the site by subscribing to the=20 _rss'>http://openlypoly.net/feed/">rss_=20 (mip://0891ef48/http://twitter.com/OpenlyPoly">twitt= er_=20 (mip://0891ef48/http://www.facebook.com/pages/Openly-Poly/132996330063604">face= book_=20 (mip://0891ef48/; Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:25:44 -0400 Received: (qmail 34813 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2010 00:25:10 -0000 Received: from Hank (ragwood09@99.144.137.81 with login) by smtp103.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Aug 2010 17:25:10 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: k0eBjaeswBAUTLbnewk5osIbeR5DBwmpmrT75sZP X-YMail-OSG: oaKZsssVM1nBZnmEpBV_uxICPu48_WGoz2qUdcN9ZY7q.AK Ksnx6XHH3wx3bMLRXKgvk5h2X1tSzAwoiYIHyacQp.PqMSP0dJ3LRCAZeSN5 pbfgS.UNdn7tbUHj..xONVs11DU4J_5ofzZvOkNHNCMwkjgzigRL_LMcVOmP nRxQQgqIHkL6aFUSjdUMublOzRRC1uQlLPdqZuc38QfKzVdpM936ZergPCOi k1Lc3Tdy2HTbrahXZZOfvGAT5adQeTIXo70719jdvXc_05CCYcQ3z7XpO33N 5gzWitulPGlv4hkjGuD3WNAdMfTz_cxntwI37W49FucFC1tWCErJlN_mBYQ9 1kUA- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <60E423C34E594789945EEB555343F786@Hank> From: "Hank" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18197 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] coming out poly X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 00:25:44 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:25:17 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 00:25:44 -0000 I would like to see a link direct to the new web page as I am not a = computer geek. Would appreciate some help on that. Thanks=20 Hank From felicity200811@yahoo.com Thu Aug 19 20:35:05 2010 Received: from smtp103-mob.biz.mail.ac4.yahoo.com (smtp103-mob.biz.mail.ac4.yahoo.com [76.13.13.224]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7K0YWIB017290 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:35:05 -0400 Received: (qmail 80585 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2010 00:34:31 -0000 Received: from bda805.bisx.prod.on.blackberry (felicity200811@67.223.90.79 with xymcookie) by smtp103-mob.biz.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Aug 2010 17:34:31 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: vxayCZSswBCU_chMslDWAsNSKAfoPmT2xbFG X-YMail-OSG: kbqIanoVM1lvweIfntmLTYDiWMiVYfk36lEnHeLsZnR29ZZ lDvkjmnhtKff6eaH8JWJ4r3Jv1JSdsRQ0uVfR2f74P26pSwhIhOscsl_paHe xygaylHvPS0Vwj721iJkNTz9lHupE4zy5krlYVkD1EFB8G8b0XNys10h97oR VYR4fDAwvG6ffrFG1DzHD3o0FhHaf3zaD_Vvx8AoH4f0SpEGoCIit4G1VGVy aUckbZgLbV.ON_e9cj8duKlsJMimiaUP8LEMy_hZaNy7_RrD6AaKpmMb9x1k ozZlYixsx6XB1wtzhIvdFP4xZgmanq12m X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-rim-org-msg-ref-id: 1324999172 Message-ID: <1324999172-1282264469-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1220486627-@bda2325.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> X-Priority: Normal Sensitivity: Normal Importance: Normal To: uupoly-l@uupa.org From: felicity200811@yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] coming out poly X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: felicity200811@yahoo.com, uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 00:35:05 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 00:34:28 +0000 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 00:35:05 -0000 Hank wrote: > "I would like to see a link direct to the new web page as I am not a computer geek. Would appreciate some help on that. Thanks" http://www.openlypoly.net/ Love, Felicity From les.addison@gmail.com Mon Aug 23 23:04:10 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f175.google.com (mail-wy0-f175.google.com [74.125.82.175]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7O349hk027477 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 23:04:10 -0400 Received: by wyb36 with SMTP id 36so114948wyb.20 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 20:04:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.159.6 with SMTP id r6mr203487wek.55.1282619049120; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 20:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.70.17 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 20:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Les Addison To: uupoly-l@uupa.org, sfbay-poly-event@polyamory.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Reminder: BBQ on Saturday X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 03:04:10 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 20:04:09 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 03:04:10 -0000 Reminder that this Saturday, from 12 to 4, I'm hosting a BBQ for Unitarian Universalists for Polyamory Awareness (SF bay area chapter) at my home in East Palo Alto. This event is open to polyamorous people and our allies, Unitarian Universalists and our friends. Please contact me for directions. Les From dpagano@igc.org Tue Aug 24 15:30:37 2010 Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7OJUbUK007704 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:30:37 -0400 Received: from [209.86.224.63] (helo=wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1OnzCc-0004rF-PV for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:30:34 -0400 Received: from 66.92.3.107 by webmail.c.earthlink.net with HTTP; Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:30:34 -0400 Message-ID: <7923462.1282678234605.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Darlene Pagano To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 39a82346d7ceb269f84080ff3e30f22c984beda83c2b9616b552cc5f7756f6ae350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.63 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 16 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: Darlene Pagano , uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 19:30:37 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:30:34 -0400 (EDT) X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 19:30:37 -0000 Hi, I am planning to attend. Also I am available to give rides from the north side of things. Let me know if you hear of a need. Darlene -----Original Message----- >From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org >Sent: Aug 24, 2010 12:00 PM >To: uupoly-l@uupa.org >Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 16 > >Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to > uupoly-l@uupa.org > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > >You can reach the person managing the list at > uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Reminder: BBQ on Saturday (Les Addison) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 20:04:09 -0700 >From: Les Addison >Subject: [UUPoly-L] Reminder: BBQ on Saturday >To: uupoly-l@uupa.org, sfbay-poly-event@polyamory.org >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >Reminder that this Saturday, from 12 to 4, I'm hosting a BBQ for Unitarian >Universalists for Polyamory Awareness (SF bay area chapter) at my home in >East Palo Alto. This event is open to polyamorous people and our allies, >Unitarian Universalists and our friends. Please contact me for directions. > >Les > > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. >Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. >UUPoly-L mailing list >UUPoly-L@uupa.org >http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > >End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 16 >**************************************** visit the website of ColorLines magazine The national newsmagazine on race and politics www.colorlines.com From diva@goldenvoid.com Wed Aug 25 17:44:13 2010 Received: from chronoglide.goldenvoid.com (ip-64-250-230-22.lasvegas.net [64.250.230.22]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7PLhd4i010313 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:44:13 -0400 Received: from [192.168.42.60] (unknown [192.168.42.60]) by chronoglide.goldenvoid.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9ABCE195D for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4C758E8B.8010300@goldenvoid.com> From: Renee Christy User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [UUPoly-L] Help in St. Louis X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:44:13 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:43:39 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:44:13 -0000 A long time member of PolyVegas, a sweet, clean cut, young man, is motorcycling his way to Atlanta for Dragoncon. He thought he could ride 10 hours a day, but has discovered that is too much. He needs to stop in St.Louis in 2 or 3 days for a night.Do we have any members there? And if so, could you let him crash on your couch? Call me if you can and I'll put you in touch with him.702-290-2490 Thank you, Renee From acknchip@pacbell.net Thu Aug 26 12:04:30 2010 Received: from web81707.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81707.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.171]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7QG3uov024157 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:04:29 -0400 Received: (qmail 58217 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Aug 2010 16:03:56 -0000 Message-ID: <960211.58214.qm@web81707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 6ZpTeNkVM1nt3rwTLKj.qpVCue1t1RbPn8HHznGvsn7lYdX 641nur8nWo9SMNdLzoQk7l1N9VdFMrSqvJIuIoI13EVXDPUx4Ht04QEtngRk 6xQmyoz2xZ3TcHDb5r_fbeOYJHGNZ_.x3746dq9CzrqJdf4AadzfXdcQVfDZ 5zk_NFMYYuQknHSvfR64WamAefkh08CKar92blaj4BtHMjKLRsg3ybcg2JtE iE.g692bZPkbEVJAYumqhsV5OvSIxh84T_aF2HZEXOnPfZ92hbrKGxukgjtO bXB58Wkn4N.xuVMVFcTXDUMA- Received: from [99.48.210.43] by web81707.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:03:55 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.3.2 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 From: Mel Fleming II To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Are my posts getting through? X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:04:30 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:03:55 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:04:30 -0000 Hello and Merry Meet Have my posts been getting through? rev.Mel Fleming II From ejjabla@comcast.net Thu Aug 26 13:45:33 2010 Received: from qmta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.48]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7QHixCb029028 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:45:33 -0400 Received: from omta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.35]) by qmta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id z2R01e0080lTkoCA55kqyG; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:44:50 +0000 Received: from edddb5c91ad5a7 ([98.244.36.61]) by omta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id z5kp1e0051K9DLa8Q5kpMu; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:44:49 +0000 Message-ID: <8AD08CF1360C49C3B6FB9869C37BCA96@edddb5c91ad5a7> From: "Ed Blanchette" To: References: <960211.58214.qm@web81707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Cc: acknchip@pacbell.net Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Are my posts getting through? X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:45:33 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:44:53 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:45:33 -0000 Yup! Ed Citrus Hts. (Sacramento County) California USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mel Fleming II" To: Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:03 AM Subject: [UUPoly-L] Are my posts getting through? > Hello and Merry Meet > > Have my posts been getting through? > > rev.Mel Fleming II > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From peterpardme@yahoo.com Thu Aug 26 21:48:29 2010 Received: from n11.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com (n11.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com [74.6.228.83]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o7R1lt4X017452 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:48:29 -0400 Received: from [76.13.12.67] by n11.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Aug 2010 01:47:55 -0000 Received: from [76.13.10.180] by t8.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Aug 2010 01:47:55 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp121.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Aug 2010 01:47:55 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 897972.17801.bm@omp121.mail.ac4.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 8283 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Aug 2010 01:47:55 -0000 Message-ID: <610057.7997.qm@web65410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: _JY1GzcVM1luNUnexoyjrHmaJ33M6EZwM6_i_sGSUWhN7fF Ed11s8clNjDggpIcMzzyQ73P0S4h7CwBK_qM7f18DmExBnn7LgbKq1DpzjfO aFQQqcRKzxP_bL0K49uFG011v0xg.msuntbBPqjq356.zZE9PeEjfYX5sG4a gH0nMjW3P8B_4ImBGhXgUs2Gqk7knPJhLgZ_11yjl9zSkF.ioc7ujPBi4.JE Wuc6TF7QVvEt5x.ddWewlel35HkbQ8UfIzHEF5k.V7sIzeJ9fDsosFKzGa7G jqv7IsWg2LId229tgCQupOR3kvzn13lY3jR4- Received: from [198.94.221.66] by web65410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 18:47:55 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.3.2 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 From: csaba pardy To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [UUPoly-L] Saturday-s meeting.. X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:48:30 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 18:47:55 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:48:30 -0000 Please reply with your directions... I am an old U.U.P. of Santa Rosa...Pete.. From les.addison@gmail.com Fri Aug 27 01:50:58 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f45.google.com (mail-ww0-f45.google.com [74.125.82.45]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7R5owQn027419 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:50:58 -0400 Received: by wwi14 with SMTP id 14so2042499wwi.2 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:50:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.6.201 with SMTP id 51mr309564wen.110.1282888257181; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:50:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.70.17 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:50:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <610057.7997.qm@web65410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <610057.7997.qm@web65410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: Les Addison To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Saturday-s meeting.. X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 05:50:58 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:50:57 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 05:50:58 -0000 I live at 123 Jasmine Way, East Palo Alto, 94303, which is east of 101 between University and Embarcadero. If you're coming from Santa Rosa, exit at University, turn right onto East Bayshore, and follow that past Ikea and Home Depot, turn left at Pulgas (traffic signal), first right at the stop sign onto Camelia, go four blocks-- the one *past* the four way stop, and turn right onto Jasmine, and I live near the end of the block. Les On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 6:47 PM, csaba pardy wrote: > Please reply with your directions... I am an old U.U.P. of Santa > Rosa...Pete.. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From polojohn60@aol.com Fri Aug 27 20:45:59 2010 Received: from imr-da02.mx.aol.com (imr-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.105.144]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7S0jQWk014552 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:45:59 -0400 Received: from mtaomg-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.138]) by imr-da02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o7S0jLGB002153 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:45:21 -0400 Received: from core-mdb003c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mdb003.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.45.73]) by mtaomg-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 28DF5E000082 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:45:21 -0400 (EDT) To: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-AOL-IP: 67.185.29.241 X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 From: polojohn60@aol.com X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 32447-STANDARD Received: from 67.185.29.241 by webmail-m059.sysops.aol.com (64.12.158.159) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:45:20 -0400 Message-Id: <8CD14616D6F8470-3F8-13CBB@webmail-m059.sysops.aol.com> x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:232827872:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338a4c785c2135fd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Panama Connections X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 00:45:59 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:45:21 -0400 (EDT) X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 00:45:59 -0000 Does anyone know of any UUPA or poly connections in Panama (the country)? = We spend half the year there. Polo John From info@monkeycouple.com Sat Aug 28 15:53:14 2010 Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.195]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7SJqeIx011518 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:53:13 -0400 Received: from monkey (cab6-71.compascable.net [204.213.230.71]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MgKcw-1OV33d3I0c-00NKrX; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:52:37 -0400 Message-ID: <645244F85419493EB4F5572140786FA8@monkey> From: "Monkey Couple" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:iu88reFaWRVaIcU+vXWNC7H6EkLcHfgIkIdnFOdFHrY f/sbY+e3kigh46WT0lck7BjfxGhFpBH1wfosk7qOrCelzgp8Q6 l1LVHFmIQHMQ2BaOh/3XMFdr4WRkryWPPErVLHhdzDDUrQ5ian 1UPYHGdTdL204lDEfhY0rd6uUSPqraJFT6ZgEx4RidQn4C9SjZ RujHeo1obiO9PszGbQluX+PLQCfOJNmaQ3vUUS+vvA= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] A New Mascot Yahoo Study Group... from Western North Carolina X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 19:53:14 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:47:01 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 19:53:14 -0000 This value-added, intellectual and educational mascot Yahoo study group = discusses various aspects of swinging and polyamory; and even what the = Bible says about them. We mostly encourage ethical non-monogamous = relationships here. Topics for discussion will likely include relevant = material from: bibliology, psychology, sociology, anthropology, the = history of monogamy, alternatives within the Lifestyle, social sciences = on relationships, sexual identity and practice, personalities of "human = nature", political perspectives on monogamy, free love, the nuclear = family, intentional online and face-to-face swinging and polyamory = communities, connections and disconnections of relationships, = alternatitive sexual-positive communities, related efforts to enhance = personal growth, interpersonal communication, intimacy, and of course = sexuality. Other Common issues discussed are: jealousy, insecurity, = safety, stability, scheduling, legal and other considerations. You will = also find here are invitations to attend various local = Lifestyle/Polyamory events as a group. The Moderator's personal interest in the Lifestyle is consistent with = the writing of his fifth book. Although he did write a book on human = personality and backwards messages, he is not a expert in psychology, = and nor is he a therapist. Although some personal discussion and hookups = here is likely, it is not the only focus. In the event that readers want = a relationship, counseling or therapy group, another group will be = formed with another Lifestyle-friendly Moderator. The group is open to = adult readers regardless of relationship status, goals, or assumptions. This is also MonkeyCouple.com's Meeting Place. Monkey Couples Yahoo Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/monkeycouples