From valerie@valeriewhite.org Sat Feb 6 17:00:56 2010 Received: from cosmos.phy.tufts.edu (cosmos.phy.tufts.edu [130.64.83.16]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o16M0M8Q012589 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 17:00:56 -0500 Received: from p92-11.acedsl.com ([66.114.92.11]:38580 helo=neptune.place.org) by cosmos.phy.tufts.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdshS-00065c-5p for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:00:22 -0500 Received: from [192.168.0.247] (port=3578 helo=VW.valeriewhite.org) by neptune.place.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NdshR-0002vO-OU for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:00:21 -0500 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20100206165903.027c1808@valeriewhite.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org From: Valerie White Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [UUPoly-L] poly groups in the Netherlands? X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:00:56 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:59:43 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:00:56 -0000 Does anybody know of a poly organization in the Netherlands? From airsafe1@comcast.net Sat Feb 6 19:09:41 2010 Received: from qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.64]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o17097c0019281 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:09:41 -0500 Received: from omta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.60]) by qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id eo8t1d00C1HpZEsA7o90lg; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:09:00 +0000 Received: from DaveVostro1400 ([76.127.86.3]) by omta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id eo8p1d00104KFes8ao8rpi; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:08:53 +0000 From: "David Hall" To: References: <5994703.2744.1265493849137.JavaMail.root@n01> Message-ID: <612EEA59152A4B4A8EDFCBEDA109398D@DaveVostro1400> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcqneE8wiQl52UOeTkangxJXtkqWqgAEQupw In-Reply-To: <5994703.2744.1265493849137.JavaMail.root@n01> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] poly groups in the Netherlands? X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:09:41 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 16:08:45 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:09:41 -0000 I just wrote a letter to a guy in the Netherlands and sent him some poly info and leads to a book in Dutch called "I love two men". Also sent a bibliography on religion and poly. He said he does not have email. Dave -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+airsafe1=comcast.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+airsafe1=comcast.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of Valerie White Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 2:00 PM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: [UUPoly-L] poly groups in the Netherlands? Does anybody know of a poly organization in the Netherlands? _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From dakinitara@tantrikapath.com Sat Feb 6 21:38:47 2010 Received: from vms173019pub.verizon.net (vms173019pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.19]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o172cDrL026509 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:38:47 -0500 Received: from HamsaPC ([unknown] [71.173.190.64]) by vms173019.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0KXG004GR9YFQN95@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net> for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:37:29 -0600 (CST) Message-id: <557F4A740D3A4A5F9834B924153858A0@HamsaPC> From: "Tara Shakti-Ma" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20100206165903.027c1808@valeriewhite.org> In-reply-to: <7.0.1.0.2.20100206165903.027c1808@valeriewhite.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] poly groups in the Netherlands? X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:38:47 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:37:23 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:38:47 -0000 Hi Valerie: There's a group on Facebook called "Polyamory Europe". The guy that = facilitates it keeps tabs on a number of poly-groups all over the world. = You may have to be a member of Facebook to access it. If you aren't a = member and don't want to become one, and you can't get into the group = without being a member, let me know and I will write the guy personally = and ask for info. for you. http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=3D124033632632&ref=3Dts= Also, MeetUp has a map of Polyamory groups all over the world. = http://polyamory.meetup.com/ Once you get that page, you'll see a = search field on the right where you can enter the country's name. Hopefully you'll find some connections that way. =20 Tara Shakti-Ma )O(=20 http://www.facebook.com/tara.shaktima =20 * Join us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ExpansiveLoving/ - An = internationally serving on-line group for spiritually and new-paradigm = inclined poly-folk. We also have a companion group by the same name on = Facebook. =20 * New England Area Polyamory Network at = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEAPN/ - Serving as a central resource for = poly-folk in and around the New England area...also with a companion = group on Facebook. =A9 Copyright Tara Shakti-Ma 2010 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Valerie White=20 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 4:59 PM Subject: [UUPoly-L] poly groups in the Netherlands? Does anybody know of a poly organization in the Netherlands? _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about = yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From Malanf@aol.com Sun Feb 7 12:52:10 2010 Received: from imr-da02.mx.aol.com (imr-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.105.144]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o17HpZK3019160 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:52:08 -0500 Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-da02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o17HpUcJ025643 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:51:30 -0500 Received: from Malanf@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id g.bd8.4373e830 (43956) for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:51:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-ma02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.141]) by cia-dd01.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADD015-5c4e4b6efd9769; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:51:29 -0500 Received: from magic-d04.mail.aol.com (magic-d04.mail.aol.com [172.19.161.132]) by smtprly-ma02.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMA024-5c4e4b6efd9769; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:51:19 -0500 From: Malanf@aol.com Message-ID: <69f1.6d3d811f.38a05797@aol.com> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 68.62.10.217 X-AOL-IP: 172.19.161.132 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: Malanf@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] GAY POLY GROUP X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:52:10 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:51:19 EST X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:52:10 -0000 Does any one know of a POLY Group??? Thanks Hugs Mark From valerie@valeriewhite.org Sun Feb 7 21:27:58 2010 Received: from cosmos.phy.tufts.edu (cosmos.phy.tufts.edu [130.64.83.16]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o182RO7e014944 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:27:58 -0500 Received: from p92-11.acedsl.com ([66.114.92.11]:59054 helo=neptune.place.org) by cosmos.phy.tufts.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeJLQ-0008Gk-2Y for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:27:24 -0500 Received: from [192.168.0.247] (port=1364 helo=VW.valeriewhite.org) by neptune.place.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NeJLP-00005w-NN for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:27:23 -0500 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20100207212640.0278d888@valeriewhite.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org From: Valerie White Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [UUPoly-L] thanks to all for Netherlands connections X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:27:58 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:27:12 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:27:58 -0000 I've forwarded them all to the requester. Valerie From WABaldwin@aol.com Sun Feb 14 23:08:32 2010 Received: from imr-mb01.mx.aol.com (imr-mb01.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.164]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1F47wdg001227 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:08:32 -0500 Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-mb01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1F47o6O028129; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:07:50 -0500 Received: from WABaldwin@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id o.c32.6f1ca709 (34959); Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:07:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from your-iqrrujqvuc.aol.com (75-101-20-126.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [75.101.20.126]) by cia-da06.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA068-888f4b78c890234; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:07:45 -0500 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 To: erikamjackson@gmail.com, uupoly-l@uupa.org From: Bill Baldwin In-Reply-To: <716407.40299.qm@web54105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <716407.40299.qm@web54105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AOL-IP: 75.101.20.126 Message-ID: X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: WABaldwin@aol.com Subject: [UUPoly-L] Poly Newsletter X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 04:08:32 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:07:41 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 04:08:32 -0000 Now I'm paranoid that I "broke confidentiality" because of what I wrote in the poly newsletter -- It didn't cross my mind until this evening. On the other hand, I wasn't thinking that I was saying anything specific about anyone's private history or orientation..... So I hope no harm was done -- I'm just mad at myself for not thinking of it sooner. I was in a rush to send something out....and this all really has been quite an experience for me..... Bill From WABaldwin@aol.com Sun Feb 14 23:13:29 2010 Received: from imr-da06.mx.aol.com (imr-da06.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.203]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1F4CuSe002101 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:13:29 -0500 Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1F4CoO6013204 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:12:50 -0500 Received: from WABaldwin@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id g.c46.7218a54d (37664) for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:12:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from your-iqrrujqvuc.aol.com (75-101-20-126.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [75.101.20.126]) by cia-mb07.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB076-93204b78c9bd46; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:12:45 -0500 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org From: Bill Baldwin In-Reply-To: References: <716407.40299.qm@web54105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AOL-IP: 75.101.20.126 Message-ID: X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: WABaldwin@aol.com Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly Newsletter X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 04:13:29 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:12:41 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 04:13:29 -0000 Sorry -- I sent this by mistake..... Bill At 08:07 PM 2/14/2010, Bill Baldwin wrote: >Now I'm paranoid that I "broke confidentiality" because of what I >wrote in the poly newsletter -- It didn't cross my mind until this evening. > >On the other hand, I wasn't thinking that I was saying anything >specific about anyone's private history or orientation..... > >So I hope no harm was done -- I'm just mad at myself for not thinking >of it sooner. I was in a rush to send something out....and this all >really has been quite an experience for me..... > >Bill > >_______________________________________________ >The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. >Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. >UUPoly-L mailing list >UUPoly-L@uupa.org >http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From dpagano@igc.org Tue Feb 16 06:06:26 2010 Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1GB6Qcx013298 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:06:26 -0500 Received: from [209.86.224.65] (helo=wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1NhLG6-00054q-9J for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:06:26 -0500 Received: from 76.254.47.216 by webmail.c.earthlink.net with HTTP; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:06:25 -0500 Message-ID: <1503612.1266318385901.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Darlene Pagano To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 39a82346d7ceb269f84080ff3e30f22c704297ce131a630d43f826d4d8fe89e3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.65 Subject: [UUPoly-L] SF Bay area, Bisexuality (and poly) curriculum. X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: Darlene Pagano , uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:06:26 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:06:25 -0500 (EST) X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:06:26 -0000 Hello all, Sorry for the short notice, but if you are in the SF Bay area, I wanted to alert you to a "class" that the Oakland Interweave group is offering. I announced this as an offering last year for the summer, so if this seems familiar, it is. However, it did not actually happen at that time as UU's (as I had been warned) are a vacationing, summer traveling, break-from-the-church-year group if there ever was one. I am really interested to see how the poly content (and there IS poly content) has been incorporated and presented. I will be happy to answer question off-line. For directions, map and info on First Unitarian, Oakland see uuoakland.org The building is completely wheelchair accessible and close to the 12th St BART station. Darlene Pagano *********************************************** Starting this coming Wednesday eve, 2/17 and then every OTHER Wednesday eve (March 3, 17 and 31) a group of folks in Oakland Interweave are going to be looking at, beta-testing if you will, the newish curriculum on BiSexuality produced last year by Interweave International, an affiliate of the UUA. To remind: Interweave is our LGBTQIQ* group. And for four weeks as Winter ends and we again get to Spring we will be addressing the B part of that acronym. The group plans to meet from 7 to 9:30pm, so bring some snacks to share. Don't worry, if we find that that is a longer meeting time than we need, we'll cut back. Please let us know ASAP about any childcare needs. We will be meeting in the open space on the third floor. This will be a largely peer facilitated group, but I will be responsible for getting copies of the curriculum out to folks and will arrive especially prepared for the first meeting. It looks to be a really interesting, low-key but lively look at this material. In case it isn't totally clear, EVERYONE is welcome to attend, and I want to put out a special invite to all my fellow OWL teachers to be part of this, as you can. To claim a seat or with any questions or needs, email Francey Liefert at interweave@uuoakland.org Spread the word, Oakland Interweave welcomes any and all who are interested, whether on a personal level or as part of their commitment to an anti-oppression stand (or both). We are a welcoming congregation after all. Darlene Pagano *Lesbian, Gay, BiSexual, Transgendered, Queer, Intersexed and Questioning. oh yeah... and Allies, always Allies. (And they can identify themselves however they darn well please.) visit the website of ColorLines magazine www.colorlines.com From JasmineGld@aol.com Tue Feb 16 18:49:00 2010 Received: from imr-ma01.mx.aol.com (imr-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.206.39]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1GNmRAQ030669 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:49:00 -0500 Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-ma01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1GNmPkx017733 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:48:25 -0500 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id g.d06.6eac042f (37127) for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:48:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from magic-m25.mail.aol.com (magic-m25.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.198]) by cia-ma02.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA021-91074b7b2ec3178; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:48:20 -0500 From: JasmineGld@aol.com Message-ID: <193f2.2deefa8e.38ac88c3@aol.com> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5379 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 74.130.8.252 X-AOL-IP: 172.20.22.198 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: JasmineGld@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Philadelphia X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:49:00 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:48:19 EST X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:49:00 -0000 I'll be in Philadelphia this weekend for Poly Living. Workshops are scheduled for Sunday morning. I'm not sure if there will be closing activities in the afternoon. At the same time, I wondered about the local UU congregations -- whether anyone would want a visit from a UUPA trustee during their Sunday morning service? Or a "let's start a Philadelphia chapter of UUPA" meeting on Sunday afternoon? Or conversation with someone in your congregation? Just wondering... Jasmine UUPA Secretary From dpagano@igc.org Thu Feb 18 20:21:45 2010 Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1J1LjGf009055 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:21:45 -0500 Received: from [209.86.224.63] (helo=wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1NiHYv-0000Dk-Di for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:21:45 -0500 Received: from 99.24.161.174 by webmail.c.earthlink.net with HTTP; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:21:45 -0500 Message-ID: <4619750.1266542505201.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Darlene Pagano To: UU Poly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 39a82346d7ceb269f84080ff3e30f22cf4181604588c93a70dac652fd0f1bf2c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.63 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Help the DRE out X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: Darlene Pagano , uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:21:45 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:21:45 -0500 (EST) X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:21:45 -0000 This from the *Reach* list for folks involved in RE. I know this group can help her out. If you want to have your response posted to the whole REACH list, not just to this poster, I think you can without joining. If you get bounce back because you are not a member, send a response to me and I will repost it. Darlene Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:54:26 -0500 From: Marlyn Miller Subject: [Reach-l] polyamory To: Discussion and sharing of UU Religious Education Message-ID: <96B48633-CC9D-4FEC-AF96-2606FE618CC6@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Dear Reachers - Do any of you know of any stories/resources that explicitly include polyamorous families? We recently had a polyamorous family join the church, and would like to make sure they feel included, and especially not to leave their kids out when talking about different kinds of families. Thanks! Marlyn Marlyn Miller, Ph.D. Director of Religious Education First Universalist Society 211 Bridge Street Salem, MA 01970 marlynmiller@mac.com www.salemuu.org 978-744-3224 visit the website of ColorLines magazine www.colorlines.com From dpagano@igc.org Thu Feb 18 20:38:28 2010 Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1J1cR41010558 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:38:28 -0500 Received: from [209.86.224.63] (helo=wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1NiHp5-0006KF-Sz for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:38:27 -0500 Received: from 99.24.161.174 by webmail.c.earthlink.net with HTTP; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:38:27 -0500 Message-ID: <30405757.1266543507470.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Darlene Pagano To: UU Poly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 39a82346d7ceb269f84080ff3e30f22ce796583178839e1cd02a15fbcb115371350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.63 Subject: [UUPoly-L] My response to the DRE X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: Darlene Pagano , uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:38:29 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:38:27 -0500 (EST) X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:38:29 -0000 Hi, Here is my response to Marilyn. Is the family in question here on this list?? How nice for them to know this DRE wants to do right by them. Darlene **************************************************************************** hi Marilyn, There is a UUPoly elist, and I asked for a response to your question there. These are LOOOOOOONNNNG time UU's and they will know a wealth or resources. And co-incidentally, our Interweave chapter just started, last night, to do a *beta-test* of the Interweave International's newish curriculum on BiSexuality. Right from the first page, the topic/reality of polyamory and polyfidelity is included in the discussion. That is of course an adult RE program. But might be an offering your Welcoming Congregation program could pair with ARE to bring to your Society. It would then open the topic up without making the new family be the *cause* of the course. Expect more answers soon, Darlene Pagano First Unitarian Church, Oakland and Live Oak UU Fellowship, Alameda, CA ARE Chair at Live Oak, Interweave member at FUCO. visit the website of ColorLines magazine www.colorlines.com From desmondravenstone@yahoo.com Thu Feb 18 20:42:50 2010 Received: from web50507.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web50507.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.38.83]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o1J1goTx011235 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:42:50 -0500 Received: (qmail 52248 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Feb 2010 01:42:50 -0000 Message-ID: <22327.52187.qm@web50507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: BoShvt8VM1kW3QYoEAxYs0isys8mLxmVFaA55oy0kp0MhnOQ3FbWwNjuK3MVch6TCUcCjMSsFp4S80Hfo3SWx9A5x6F9_U3BuwdTPw6FzkflF2sJLqodxdww1NZxCfT9nHUCeoFp5Hfq_turMlCjrANE5yLldrcekmVztopNEq3T6WbnT3n81qxTiluIIV.msuuYF.OAx63G.4cDuDIjX9VdGgeGngQhf93CXgRI44bFHM43Ada7geQ4Zn0udGvHa6oF1RFZAkGl8x9MSGoJQfX9zzdA5CnCAQ-- Received: from [173.101.26.6] by web50507.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:42:49 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 From: Desmond Ravenstone To: Darlene Pagano , uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: <30405757.1266543507470.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o1J1goTx011235 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] My response to the DRE X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:42:50 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:42:49 -0800 (PST) X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:42:50 -0000 I think another good way to bring up the discussion would be to talk about diversity of family structures -- two-parent, single-parent, blended, extended, and poly. Good for the Salem congregation, that they are taking this positive step! Desmond Ravenstone "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a thousand forms..." http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone --- On Thu, 2/18/10, Darlene Pagano wrote: > From: Darlene Pagano > Subject: [UUPoly-L] My response to the DRE > To: "UU Poly" > Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 8:38 PM > Hi, > Here is my response to Marilyn.  > > Is the family in question here on this list?? > > How nice for them to know this DRE wants to do right by > them. > > Darlene > > **************************************************************************** > hi Marilyn, > > There is a UUPoly elist, and I asked for a response to your > question there.  These are LOOOOOOONNNNG time UU's and > they will know a wealth or resources. > > And co-incidentally, our Interweave chapter just started, > last night, to do a *beta-test* of the Interweave > International's newish curriculum on BiSexuality.  > Right from the first page, the topic/reality of polyamory > and polyfidelity is included in the discussion.  That > is of course an adult RE program.  But might be an > offering your Welcoming Congregation program could pair with > > ARE to bring to your Society.  It would then open the > topic up without making the new family be the *cause* of the > course. > > Expect more answers soon, > > Darlene Pagano > First Unitarian Church, Oakland and Live Oak UU Fellowship, > Alameda, CA > ARE Chair at Live Oak, Interweave member at FUCO. > > visit the website of > ColorLines magazine > www.colorlines.com > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From polydvh@gmail.com Thu Feb 18 21:46:10 2010 Received: from mail-pw0-f47.google.com (mail-pw0-f47.google.com [209.85.160.47]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1J2kA4V015541 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:46:10 -0500 Received: by pwi5 with SMTP id 5so1532998pwi.20 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:46:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.114.248.39 with SMTP id v39mr7081760wah.39.1266547566339; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:46:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4619750.1266542505201.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <4619750.1266542505201.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: From: david vanhorn To: Darlene Pagano , uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o1J2kA4V015541 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Help the DRE out X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:46:10 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:46:06 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:46:10 -0000 Robyn Trask and LovingMore magazine would be a great resource. I sent your message direct to her, but she's getting ready for PolyLiving in Philly, so I expect that it would be late next week before she can get you a reply, beyond what's on their website. http://www.lovemore.com/ On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Darlene Pagano wrote: > This from the *Reach* list for folks involved in RE. > I know this group can help her out. > > If you want to have your response posted to the whole REACH list, not just to this poster, I think you can without joining.  If you get bounce back because you are not a member, send a response to me and I will repost it. > > Darlene > > > > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:54:26 -0500 > From: Marlyn Miller > Subject: [Reach-l] polyamory > To: Discussion and sharing of UU Religious Education >         > Message-ID: <96B48633-CC9D-4FEC-AF96-2606FE618CC6@mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Dear Reachers - > Do any of you know of any stories/resources that explicitly include > polyamorous families? We recently had a polyamorous family join the > church, and would like to make sure they feel included, and especially > not to leave their kids out when talking about different kinds of > families. > Thanks! > > Marlyn > > > > > > Marlyn Miller, Ph.D. > Director of Religious Education > First Universalist Society > 211 Bridge Street > Salem, MA 01970 > marlynmiller@mac.com > www.salemuu.org > 978-744-3224 > > > > visit the website of > ColorLines magazine > www.colorlines.com > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > -- http://www.libchrist.com/phoenix/healing.html From taanderson@mac.com Fri Feb 26 15:44:58 2010 Received: from asmtpout011.mac.com (asmtpout011.mac.com [17.148.16.86]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1QKiPhe024330 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:44:58 -0500 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Received: from [192.168.1.5] ([71.185.171.119]) by asmtp011.mac.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-8.01 (built Dec 16 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KYG00G2IURPH130@asmtp011.mac.com> for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:40:39 -0800 (PST) X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx engine=5.0.0-0908210000 definitions=main-1002260138 Message-id: In-reply-to: References: <4619750.1266542505201.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org From: Thomas Anderson Subject: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:44:58 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:40:31 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:44:58 -0000 Don't know who all has seen this. Figured it should at least spark discussion. -TAA http://www.malaysianmirror.com/homedetail/45-home/31702-divorce-enjoy-polyamory-tiger-told From ebonstorm@gmail.com Fri Feb 26 16:04:54 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f177.google.com (mail-pz0-f177.google.com [209.85.222.177]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1QL4sB2025680 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:04:54 -0500 Received: by pzk7 with SMTP id 7so387644pzk.16 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:04:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.1.6 with SMTP id d6mr518638rvi.49.1267218284005; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:04:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4619750.1266542505201.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: From: Thaddeus Howze To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:04:54 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:04:43 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:04:54 -0000 All I can say to this is wow! I don't think divorce is necessary unless tha= t is what SHE wants. But, I have wanted to say this to Tiger since this debacle has started. Why are you apologizing for being brilliant, capable and desiring the company of multiple female partners? And before you flame me, done responsibly, he could have the life he dreams of and play golf at the level never seen before by modern man. I feel for him because he is being torn between the world of what was (or what is believed to be the bes= t way to live--because we say so) and the world of what could be, a world where he could really be what he is and not be punished for it. My two bits-- Divorce, enjoy polyamory, Tiger told Friday, 26 February 2010 14:04 MONTREAL =96 French guru Claude Vorilho= n, alias Rael, advised golf superstar Tiger Woods in an open letter on Thursda= y to divorce his wife and embrace multiple sexual partners. [image: tiger_woods01] "Adultery is not mental disease but a very normal behaviour among both humans and animals," said the leader of the atheist Raelian Movement, whose followers believe life on earth was created by extra-terrestrials. "I encourage you to explore what more and more people are calling 'polyamory,' which means loving many people simultaneously and with no jealousy," he said. Alluding to Woods's televised apology last week for his extramarital dalliances, Vorilhon urged the golfer to "stop making his life a model of guilt, sadness and conformism to antiquated Judeo-Christian values." This, he said, sets a bad example for the younger generation. Woods's remarks last Friday, in which he said he is undergoing therapy, wer= e his first public comments in nearly three months, since a sex scandal spiraled into a global media storm and pushed him into self-imposed seclusion. "The only person close to you who needs therapy is your wife," Vorilhon said, saying the golfer's spouse Elin Nordegren welcomed Woods's partying ways so long as he didn't engage in extramarital affairs. "If she doesn't get therapy, you will be better off divorcing such a jealou= s partner to freely enjoy your sexual partners," he added, inviting Woods to an upcoming Raelian seminar in Las Vegas. =97 *AFP* > > > http://www.malaysianmirror.com/homedetail/45-home/31702-divorce-enjoy-pol= yamory-tiger-told > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From circles705@yahoo.com Fri Feb 26 16:45:39 2010 Received: from web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.85.2]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o1QLj6AS028173 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:45:39 -0500 Received: (qmail 62825 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Feb 2010 21:45:05 -0000 Message-ID: <431794.62438.qm@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: QSYzx9kVM1kY9yaLgHJY7ycHiCLlLPFi5tSjjVEXQ95SizeC52zLyJCR1PTA.udbeBeSgeSr0.jzO5yjfp1ALIseVfqsw1i22mu8l0SDtL2cVlPjBEoBkVOluFbi6YtnVi8thpfW.VviZLO_QtuW2oJtN4CcFgvmBBYN7OSFCJxg.8x5ronH0iUE3owW2kg59C_PCcIRihZSUt7vAnz__hgA.ZZEbDaChNqkB4BOF6hn0Kw87rx90.HXlEY3H7hLkbNxQC6yunnfn_7R1O3vjVLm6R.N3ZLKgq4VQqMcJTZAtQj4on8_Os4hu9m2gxzw0.XLwLQfVzn2 Received: from [71.186.61.17] by web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:45:05 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 From: Gordon B To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:45:39 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:45:05 -0800 (PST) X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:45:39 -0000 I think it's the "done responsibly" part where he failed and why he's being= torn apart.=C2=A0 Clearly his wife's feeling were hurt.=C2=A0 The women he= spend time with report that they are hurt by this and now his kids are hou= nded by photographers.=C2=A0 For my wife and I there is a huge difference b= etween cheating and polyamory.=C2=A0 But that's just my 2 cents worth. --- On Fri, 2/26/10, Thaddeus Howze wrote: From: Thaddeus Howze Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Date: Friday, February 26, 2010, 4:04 PM All I can say to this is wow! I don't think divorce is necessary unless tha= t is what SHE wants. But, I have wanted to say this to Tiger since this debacle has started.=C2=A0 Why are you apologizing for being brilliant, cap= able and desiring the company of multiple female partners? And before you flame me, done responsibly, he could have the life he dreams of and play golf at the level never seen before by modern man. I feel for him because he is being torn between the world of what was (or what is believed to be the bes= t way to live--because we say so) and the world of what could be, a world where he could really be what he is and not be punished for it. My two bits-- =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Divorce, enjoy polyamory, Tiger told =C2=A0 Friday, 26 February 2010 14:04=C2=A0 =C2=A0 MONTREAL =E2=80=93 Frenc= h guru Claude Vorilhon, alias Rael, advised golf superstar Tiger Woods in an open letter on Thursda= y to divorce his wife and embrace multiple sexual partners. [image: tiger_woods01] "Adultery is not mental disease but a very normal behaviour among both humans and animals," said the leader of the atheist Raelian Movement, whose followers believe life on earth was created by extra-terrestrials. "I encourage you to explore what more and more people are calling 'polyamory,' which means loving many people simultaneously and with no jealousy," he said. Alluding to Woods's televised apology last week for his extramarital dalliances, Vorilhon urged the golfer to "stop making his life a model of guilt, sadness and conformism to antiquated Judeo-Christian values." This, he said, sets a bad example for the younger generation. Woods's remarks last Friday, in which he said he is undergoing therapy, wer= e his first public comments in nearly three months, since a sex scandal spiraled into a global media storm and pushed him into self-imposed seclusion. "The only person close to you who needs therapy is your wife," Vorilhon said, saying the golfer's spouse Elin Nordegren welcomed Woods's partying ways so long as he didn't engage in extramarital affairs. "If she doesn't get therapy, you will be better off divorcing such a jealou= s partner to freely enjoy your sexual partners," he added, inviting Woods to an upcoming Raelian seminar in Las Vegas. =E2=80=94 *AFP* > > > http://www.malaysianmirror.com/homedetail/45-home/31702-divorce-enjoy-pol= yamory-tiger-told > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l =0A=0A=0A From stacey.nj@gmail.com Fri Feb 26 17:10:48 2010 Received: from mail-iw0-f176.google.com (mail-iw0-f176.google.com [209.85.223.176]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1QMAmro029846 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:10:48 -0500 Received: by iwn6 with SMTP id 6so570241iwn.10 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:10:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.157.83 with SMTP id a19mr798044ibx.41.1267222245868; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:10:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <431794.62438.qm@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <431794.62438.qm@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <986f041002261410x75ee0458y52774e585a572f7d@mail.gmail.com> From: Stacey Greenstein To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:10:48 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:10:45 -1000 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:10:48 -0000 Yes, but how much of that is because he didn't have the support (or knowledge/understanding) to do poly responsibly? Did he only have the societally accepted choices: Be monogamous, or cheat. That's what society teaches. Had he had the support of a poly-positive community, would he have made different choices? If he wouldn't have done anything different, he's a cheater. If he would have done differently, he's a struggling poly. IMHO. I wonder how many famous-like people who come out publicly and say they "cheated" on their spouse, do it only because the public found out they had these extra relationships, and how many actually had reasonable poly relationships that they had to keep quiet from their peers because educating their peers would take too much away from the other work they had to do. Can a politician or a sports figure or an actor have a chance at a successful poly relationship in today's social climate, and have that relationship found out by the public, and have that relationship and their career survive? It's questions like these that give me some degree of sympathy for these outed "cheaters". On 2/26/10, Gordon B wrote: > > I think it's the "done responsibly" part where he failed and why he's being > torn apart. Clearly his wife's feeling were hurt. The women he spend time > with report that they are hurt by this and now his kids are hounded by > photographers. For my wife and I there is a huge difference between > cheating and polyamory. But that's just my 2 cents worth. > > > -- > a guy named Stacey From Stephen.Caldwell.Ctr.US@barksdale.af.mil Fri Feb 26 17:29:35 2010 Received: from awub-fwl-001.barksdale.af.mil (bad-cits-00.barksdale.af.mil [131.10.254.22]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1QMT2G1031170 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:29:35 -0500 X-AuditID: 830a041f-00000bc0000006b4-65-4b884ae276d7 From: "Caldwell, Stephen R Civ USAF ACC 49 TES/DTO" To: "uupoly-l@uupa.org" Thread-Topic: FWD: Essay About Poly in "Caprica" TV Series Fictional Universe Thread-Index: Acq3Muo9j7WG/AEfRfqK0QoQtr02Ig== Message-ID: <201002262227.o1QMRkE5040961@awub-fwl-001.barksdale.af.mil> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o1QMT2G1031170 Subject: [UUPoly-L] FWD: Essay About Poly in "Caprica" TV Series Fictional Universe X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:29:35 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:27:43 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:29:35 -0000 UUPA Folks, You may want to check out this blog post by Greta Christina that talk about poly sexuality and gay sexuality both being treated as matter-of-fact ho-hum matters in the Battlestar Galactica "Caprica" fictional universe: http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2010/02/sex-caprica-changing-world.html This blog post is a teaser and it provides a link to the rest of the article on the Blowfish Blog. Take care, Steve ======================= Steve Caldwell Home: stevecaldwell@bellsouth.net Work: steve.caldwell@barksdale.af.mil Blog -- http://liberalfaith.blogspot.com URL -- http://sites.google.com/site/uuwebman/ "This mail is a natural product. Slight variations in grammar, conception and spelling are to be expected and in no way diminish the intent of the message." From JasmineGld@aol.com Fri Feb 26 18:20:18 2010 Received: from imr-db02.mx.aol.com (imr-db02.mx.aol.com [205.188.91.96]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1QNJjtZ001882 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:20:18 -0500 Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-db02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1QNJeEd006320 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:19:41 -0500 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id g.bd9.46d0246a (34919) for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:19:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from magic-d20.mail.aol.com (magic-d20.mail.aol.com [172.19.155.136]) by cia-da03.mx.aol.com (v127_r1.2) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA034-88674b88570416b; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:19:33 -0500 From: JasmineGld@aol.com Message-ID: <2e613.5a72eaa4.38b9b104@aol.com> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5379 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 74.130.8.252 X-AOL-IP: 172.19.155.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: JasmineGld@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:20:19 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:19:32 EST X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:20:19 -0000 In a message dated 2/26/2010 5:10:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, stacey.nj@gmail.com writes: > Can a politician or a sports figure or an actor have a chance at a successful poly relationship in today's social climate, and have that relationship found out by the public, and have that relationship and their career survive? Governor Romer of Colorado was outed as having an extramarital relationship, which he publicly announced that his wife and family new all about, that it was all consensual. And yet, when I tried to find out some "where are they now?" info about them, the former governor and his wife were in different states working on different long term projects. I didn't find any real information about the current status of their relationship. I didn't find any indication they were together, either. Being outed when you haven't chosen it is hard on a family. Jasmine From desmondravenstone@yahoo.com Fri Feb 26 18:55:31 2010 Received: from web50503.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web50503.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.38.79]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o1QNtTXQ004243 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:55:29 -0500 Received: (qmail 50440 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Feb 2010 23:55:29 -0000 Message-ID: <445504.49932.qm@web50503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: uk2MYRQVM1mpolZJPM4AIWJEmGUy3jNV8HHKuz996EVaq4n WhNxsgpQJbc4ug_SoICIZCsTmumb.M8XVcH8g81jp9ooJYLwmUe0LNmpZjE6 _G2ymFkkrfLAPY6sALJ.pokocpwD8DhBBUt.kZh0.Qf0.ijsG3bG0EjK2m5W Y71cE1fwLTxc.QoVMhDR6cKWYMFVpWEsTXyEl7g10SfqtaX89JNA6B2ZYer8 WjnSuivLYx9Z0T3KDl2YODZ_Wxi.OXA.gVbmY.pXcHhdVzHhDrXgzCK4DWFk N2A-- Received: from [173.145.169.225] by web50503.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:55:29 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 From: Desmond Ravenstone To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Fw: [LovingMore_lovelist] cp - My church brought up monogamy and polyamory! Yea! X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:55:31 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:55:29 -0800 (PST) X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:55:31 -0000 This appeared on another poly list; I referred the original poster to the U= UPA website. Desmond Ravenstone "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a thousand= forms..." http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone --- On Fri, 2/26/10, Poly Friend wrote: From: Poly Friend Subject: [LovingMore_lovelist] cp - My church brought up monogamy and polya= mory! Yea! To: LovingMore_lovelist@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 26, 2010, 10:16 AM =C2=A0=20 I attend the UU/Free Thought Church in Sauk City called the Free Congregation of Sauk County and our wonderfully enlightened speak brought up monogamy and polyamory over the last 2 weeks. - A Defense of Monogamous, Committed Romance (14 Feb 2010) - What's the Best Kind of Romantic Partnership? Exclusiveness vs Free Love (21 Feb 2010) Our speaker spoke for monogamy and we had member who is currently polyamorous and grew up in an intentional community speak to both sides. I am hoping that I can get them to post their debate points online. I think they will be interesting for many to read. Afterwards I thanked all of them for bringing this topic up. I had a lot to say, but was not able to say everything I wanted to due to time constraints and being too nervous. I also brought up with our administrator to add to our "welcoming congregation statement" something like 'familial configuration' or somethin= g like that. Yea! Poly Friend [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group Messages in this topic (1)=20 Recent Activity:=20 Visit Your Group Start a New Topic=20 =20 Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest =E2=80=A2 Unsubscribe =E2=80=A2 Terms of= Use .=20 __,_._,___ =0A=0A=0A From cyn@technomom.com Fri Feb 26 19:54:57 2010 Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1R0sN6H007486 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:54:57 -0500 Received: from mail-fx0-f214.google.com (mail-fx0-f214.google.com [209.85.220.214]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MbwNi-1O4LzY1Fry-00JW7V; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:54:20 -0500 Received: by fxm6 with SMTP id 6so706369fxm.2 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:54:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.6.27 with SMTP id 27mr1465888fax.31.1267232056810; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:54:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <986f041002261410x75ee0458y52774e585a572f7d@mail.gmail.com> References: <431794.62438.qm@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <986f041002261410x75ee0458y52774e585a572f7d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <218ed5c51002261654q67fa87d2v270df3c8746b7072@mail.gmail.com> From: Cynthia Armistead To: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/L94+ascHe14oklxq5CcNcPaXCORYd4Rf0yQb UKma29Y4f4qz4xxQ2k6HmXFLh5M+X7BLVz/QEAn3wriIoOY+VO 9gFK6At6EfNjF1us0tvPDBKp9fJHWpp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:54:57 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:54:16 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:54:57 -0000 GAH - get it off! Geit it off! I don't want to be associated with Raelians! Oooooo! I have so many problems with Vorlihon's "open letter" (aka "grab for media attention") that it's hard to know where to start. For one thing, current usage generally uses the term adultery, as opposed to fornication or extramarital sex or some other term, to carry negative connotations, like this definition from Princeton's WordNetWeb: extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes with marriage relations *"adultery is often cited as grounds for divorce" ( http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=adultery)*. Volihon's claim that it is "natural" is ridiculous - most of the people I know do NOT engage in adultery, whether nor not they engage in extramarital sex. The remarks about Elin Nordegren being jealous are way out of line. We don't know if or how jealous she is, but it's clear that her trust has been violated. I definitely agree with Gordon that Woods failed in terms of having "done responsibly" by anyone. His wife and at least some of his lovers have been hurt. The scrutiny surrounding him does not in any way preclude honesty. On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Stacey Greenstein wrote: > Yes, but how much of that is because he didn't have the support (or > knowledge/understanding) to do poly responsibly? Did he only have the > societally accepted choices: Be monogamous, or cheat. That's what society > teaches. Had he had the support of a poly-positive community, would he have > made different choices? If he wouldn't have done anything different, he's a > cheater. If he would have done differently, he's a struggling poly. IMHO. > Nonsense. I don't know anyone who has had the support of a poly-positive community, yet I know people who have "done" poly responsibly. How do you explain these people? How do you explain me, and presumably you, and however many people are here with us? I'm sure none of us can lay claim to perfection, but unless someone hails from a paradise that I don't know about, we're all living in a real world that is holding onto a monogamous ideal that works out to serial monogamy most of the time. > > I wonder how many famous-like people who come out publicly and say they > "cheated" on their spouse, do it only because the public found out they had > these extra relationships, and how many actually had reasonable poly > relationships that they had to keep quiet from their peers because > educating > their peers would take too much away from the other work they had to do. > Can > a politician or a sports figure or an actor have a chance at a successful > poly relationship in today's social climate, and have that relationship > found out by the public, and have that relationship and their career > survive? It's questions like these that give me some degree of sympathy for > these outed "cheaters". > How many of us have access to the resources those famous-like people have? It isn't that I want to live their lives, because I really wouldn't be willing to trade my privacy for material wealth - BUT most of the made their choices and fought to get where they are. I'm not about to pity them. They can afford travel to see LDRs much more easily than most of us, to note just one little detail that comes to mind! I figure that if Tiger Woods is a "struggling poly" he's a reasonably smart guy, and at any point in time he could have done a little research on how to deal with multiple relationships. If he did so, he would have found one of the many, many web sites about polyamory. We would have been here for him, right? It's so easy to set up an anonymous-enough email account that he could have done it at any time. Heck - he has enough money that he could have bought the closest thing to true anonymity you can get (although I figure he would have been better off to just get a gmail account and keep it low key). As far as we know, he didn't do that. It's unlikely that we'll ever know, though. That's one reason I've mostly ignore the whole Tiger Woods kerfluffle, other than vaguely thinking that this must really be horrible for his wife and kids. Cyn http://technomom.com/ From WABaldwin@aol.com Fri Feb 26 20:10:32 2010 Received: from imr-ma05.mx.aol.com (imr-ma05.mx.aol.com [64.12.100.31]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1R19wLa008661 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:10:32 -0500 Received: from imo-da01.mx.aol.com (imo-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.199]) by imr-ma05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1R19t6c016439 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:09:55 -0500 Received: from WABaldwin@aol.com by imo-da01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id g.cef.71c9a06f (37060) for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:09:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-mb03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-mb03.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.150]) by cia-db04.mx.aol.com (v127_r1.2) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB046-5c6d4b8870cc104; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:09:47 -0500 Received: from webmail-m023 (webmail-m023.sim.aol.com [64.12.183.105]) by smtprly-mb03.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMB033-5c6d4b8870cc104; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:09:32 -0500 References: <218ed5c51002261654q67fa87d2v270df3c8746b7072@mail.gmail.com> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-AOL-IP: 153.18.227.47 In-Reply-To: <218ed5c51002261654q67fa87d2v270df3c8746b7072@mail.gmail.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: wabaldwin@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 30746-STANDARD Received: from 153.18.227.47 by webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com (64.12.183.105) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:09:32 -0500 Message-Id: <8CC8560A75D8F65-49CC-4365@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: WABaldwin@aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o1R19wLa008661 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:10:32 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:09:32 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:10:32 -0000 For the record... "Fornication" usually refers to sex between people, neither of whom are married. (I wanted to pluralize that, but wasn't sure how. "Sex *among* people, none of who are married"???) ;^) ("Adultery" means one or both (or all?) of the people are married, but not to each other!) Bill -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Armistead To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Sent: Fri, Feb 26, 2010 4:54 pm Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news GAH - get it off! Geit it off! I don't want to be associated with Raelians! Oooooo! I have so many problems with Vorlihon's "open letter" (aka "grab for media attention") that it's hard to know where to start. For one thing, current usage generally uses the term adultery, as opposed to fornication or extramarital sex or some other term, to carry negative connotations, like this definition from Princeton's WordNetWeb: extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes with marriage relations *"adultery is often cited as grounds for divorce" ( http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=adultery)*. Volihon's claim that it is "natural" is ridiculous - most of the people I know do NOT engage in adultery, whether nor not they engage in extramarital sex. The remarks about Elin Nordegren being jealous are way out of line. We don't know if or how jealous she is, but it's clear that her trust has been violated. I definitely agree with Gordon that Woods failed in terms of having "done responsibly" by anyone. His wife and at least some of his lovers have been hurt. The scrutiny surrounding him does not in any way preclude honesty. On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Stacey Greenstein wrote: > Yes, but how much of that is because he didn't have the support (or > knowledge/understanding) to do poly responsibly? Did he only have the > societally accepted choices: Be monogamous, or cheat. That's what society > teaches. Had he had the support of a poly-positive community, would he have > made different choices? If he wouldn't have done anything different, he's a > cheater. If he would have done differently, he's a struggling poly. IMHO. > Nonsense. I don't know anyone who has had the support of a poly-positive community, yet I know people who have "done" poly responsibly. How do you explain these people? How do you explain me, and presumably you, and however many people are here with us? I'm sure none of us can lay claim to perfection, but unless someone hails from a paradise that I don't know about, we're all living in a real world that is holding onto a monogamous ideal that works out to serial monogamy most of the time. > > I wonder how many famous-like people who come out publicly and say they > "cheated" on their spouse, do it only because the public found out they had > these extra relationships, and how many actually had reasonable poly > relationships that they had to keep quiet from their peers because > educating > their peers would take too much away from the other work they had to do. > Can > a politician or a sports figure or an actor have a chance at a successful > poly relationship in today's social climate, and have that relationship > found out by the public, and have that relationship and their career > survive? It's questions like these that give me some degree of sympathy for > these outed "cheaters". > How many of us have access to the resources those famous-like people have? It isn't that I want to live their lives, because I really wouldn't be willing to trade my privacy for material wealth - BUT most of the made their choices and fought to get where they are. I'm not about to pity them. They can afford travel to see LDRs much more easily than most of us, to note just one little detail that comes to mind! I figure that if Tiger Woods is a "struggling poly" he's a reasonably smart guy, and at any point in time he could have done a little research on how to deal with multiple relationships. If he did so, he would have found one of the many, many web sites about polyamory. We would have been here for him, right? It's so easy to set up an anonymous-enough email account that he could have done it at any time. Heck - he has enough money that he could have bought the closest thing to true anonymity you can get (although I figure he would have been better off to just get a gmail account and keep it low key). As far as we know, he didn't do that. It's unlikely that we'll ever know, though. That's one reason I've mostly ignore the whole Tiger Woods kerfluffle, other than vaguely thinking that this must really be horrible for his wife and kids. Cyn http://technomom.com/ _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From desmondravenstone@yahoo.com Fri Feb 26 20:31:23 2010 Received: from web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.38.84]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o1R1VNs0010491 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:31:23 -0500 Received: (qmail 63480 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Feb 2010 01:31:23 -0000 Message-ID: <173880.50002.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 4xtWtTEVM1lvR_4bLItKduFE2MvuN9eRuJD4UrAsh4gf95S oYls46jQAFZ3SJivIxFgScG8dnv0om0opowdgUIaNVyRddjQeYdMtk00N.Js sywgN3Ub.dzzjdcMHdYIozgCCo5IOTnpIsaBJ6dQmENPgQrLIFOS4nQIcFwq lMoX47zUlfqdPZS50pKSZCdQK37HJzuvKK3broIaXPRxH4DmmFcscsD_fY4y Sy4KD8bPjPMXdUzmjsV4NgOs94l0XQtk6WHg4VG2hoYxg0fvkLTFsOfChP1B 0aGCSCozXP_Wb3nkyPtViE5wbvQI- Received: from [173.145.169.225] by web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:31:23 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 From: Desmond Ravenstone To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: <218ed5c51002261654q67fa87d2v270df3c8746b7072@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o1R1VNs0010491 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Tiger "poly"?? (was: Poly in the news) X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:31:23 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:31:23 -0800 (PST) X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:31:23 -0000 Frankly, I think trying to recruit celebrities who cheat on their spouse into the poly camp is like trying to turn an alcoholic into a wine connoisseur. Polyamory and monogamy are both about responsibility and integrity. Poly is about much more than "having more than one partner," just as monogamy is about much more than "having only one partner." I've often said that it says much about our society that we have no word for what I half-jokingly call "monogamous promiscuity" -- that is, engaging in an empty and indiscriminate relationship with a single person, instead of being more mindful about the quality of our relationships. Everything I've read about Tiger's dalliances indicates a rather empty, uncaring approach towards his partners. It seemed he relished the thrill of the hunt, the sense of conquest -- but not much more. Hardly a prime candidate for polyamory, or any other paradigm of responsible relating. Desmond Ravenstone "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a thousand forms..." http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone --- On Fri, 2/26/10, Cynthia Armistead wrote: > From: Cynthia Armistead > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Friday, February 26, 2010, 7:54 PM > GAH - get it off! Geit it off! I > don't want to be associated with Raelians! > Oooooo! > > I have so many problems with Vorlihon's "open letter" (aka > "grab for media > attention") that it's hard to know where to start. For one > thing, current > usage generally uses the term adultery, as opposed to > fornication or > extramarital sex or some other term, to carry negative > connotations, like > this definition from Princeton's WordNetWeb: extramarital > sex that willfully > and maliciously interferes with marriage relations > *"adultery is often cited > as grounds for divorce" ( > http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=adultery)*. > Volihon's claim > that it is "natural" is ridiculous - most of the people I > know do NOT engage > in adultery, whether nor not they engage in extramarital > sex. > > The remarks about Elin Nordegren being jealous are way out > of line. We don't > know if or how jealous she is, but it's clear that her > trust has been > violated. > > I definitely agree with Gordon that Woods failed in terms > of having "done > responsibly" by anyone. His wife and at least some of his > lovers have been > hurt. The scrutiny surrounding him does not in any way > preclude honesty. > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Stacey Greenstein wrote: > > > Yes, but how much of that is because he didn't have > the support (or > > knowledge/understanding) to do poly responsibly? Did > he only have the > > societally accepted choices: Be monogamous, or cheat. > That's what society > > teaches. Had he had the support of a poly-positive > community, would he have > > made different choices? If he wouldn't have done > anything different, he's a > > cheater. If he would have done differently, he's a > struggling poly. IMHO. > > > > Nonsense. I don't know anyone who has had the support of a > poly-positive > community, yet I know people who have "done" poly > responsibly. How do you > explain these people? How do you explain me, and presumably > you, and however > many people are here with us? I'm sure none of us can lay > claim to > perfection, but unless someone hails from a paradise that I > don't know > about, we're all living in a real world that is holding > onto a  monogamous > ideal that works out to serial monogamy most of the time. > > > > > I wonder how many famous-like people who come out > publicly and say they > > "cheated" on their spouse, do it only because the > public found out they had > > these extra relationships, and how many actually had > reasonable poly > > relationships that they had to keep quiet from their > peers because > > educating > > their peers would take too much away from the other > work they had to do. > > Can > > a politician or a sports figure or an actor have a > chance at a successful > > poly relationship in today's social climate, and have > that relationship > > found out by the public, and have that relationship > and their career > > survive? It's questions like these that give me some > degree of sympathy for > > these outed "cheaters". > > > > How many of us have access to the resources those > famous-like people have? > It isn't that I want to live their lives, because I really > wouldn't be > willing to trade my privacy for material wealth - BUT most > of the made their > choices and fought to get where they are. I'm not about to > pity them. They > can afford travel to see LDRs much more easily than most of > us, to note just > one little detail that comes to mind! > > I figure that if Tiger Woods is a "struggling poly" he's a > reasonably smart > guy, and at any point in time he could have done a little > research on how to > deal with multiple relationships. If he did so, he would > have found one of > the many, many web sites about polyamory. We would have > been here for him, > right? It's so easy to set up an anonymous-enough email > account that he > could have done it at any time. Heck - he has enough money > that he could > have bought the closest thing to true anonymity you can get > (although I > figure he would have been better off to just get a gmail > account and keep it > low key). > > As far as we know, he didn't do that. It's unlikely that > we'll ever know, > though. That's one reason I've mostly ignore the whole > Tiger Woods > kerfluffle, other than vaguely thinking that this must > really be horrible > for his wife and kids. > > Cyn > http://technomom.com/ > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > From earthfather@cfnc.us Sat Feb 27 02:12:11 2010 Received: from vms173013pub.verizon.net (vms173013pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.13]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1R7BXhn028504 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:12:11 -0500 Received: from MVRLENOVO2008 ([unknown] [173.79.127.37]) by vms173013.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0KYH00I9NO02L5M5@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net> for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:12:12 -0600 (CST) From: "Michael Rios" To: References: <431794.62438.qm@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <986f041002261410x75ee0458y52774e585a572f7d@mail.gmail.com> Message-id: <550B5B3CD03648E98C018EC375D2D970@MVRLENOVO2008> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: Acq3MJFyOlLM04FmT6yhNv+av+2teAAShsVQ In-reply-to: <986f041002261410x75ee0458y52774e585a572f7d@mail.gmail.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:12:11 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:11:04 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:12:11 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: uupoly-l-bounces+earthfather=cfnc.us@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l- > bounces+earthfather=cfnc.us@uupa.org] On Behalf Of Stacey Greenstein > I wonder how many famous-like people who come out publicly and say they > "cheated" on their spouse, do it only because the public found out they > had > these extra relationships, and how many actually had reasonable poly > relationships that they had to keep quiet from their peers because > educating > their peers would take too much away from the other work they had to do. > Can > a politician or a sports figure or an actor have a chance at a successful > poly relationship in today's social climate, and have that relationship > found out by the public, and have that relationship and their career > survive? Yes, they can. Tilda Swinton is an Oscar-winning actress who went to the academy awards with two of her lovers. Many single actors and sports figures have multiple lovers, and it isn't comment-worthy. The scandal comes when someone has promised *not* to have other lovers, which is part of what most people consider marriage to be, and then breaks the promise. Michael Rios From bear@sonic.net Sat Feb 27 12:19:31 2010 Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1RHIvMu029027 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:19:31 -0500 Received: from [75.101.18.6] (dillingers.com [75.101.18.6]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1RHIqmm028859 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:18:57 -0800 From: Ray Dillinger To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: References: <4619750.1266542505201.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1267290947.12829.8.camel@janus.pagansexcult.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:19:31 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:15:47 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:19:31 -0000 On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 13:04 -0800, Thaddeus Howze wrote: > All I can say to this is wow! I don't think divorce is necessary unless that > is what SHE wants. But, I have wanted to say this to Tiger since this > debacle has started. Why are you apologizing for being brilliant, capable > and desiring the company of multiple female partners? In his case because it cost shareholders in companies that were his sponsors more than a billion dollars? http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978039378 cites a study by UC-Davis finance proffessors putting the losses to shareholders at $5 to $12 billion - and a Wall Street Journal review that doubts it's that high. My own estimate is in line with the WSJ article at about $2 billion. Bear From union-consult@charter.net Sat Feb 27 12:54:23 2010 Received: from mta11.charter.net (mta11.charter.net [216.33.127.80]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1RHsM0A032139 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:54:23 -0500 Received: from imp10 ([10.20.200.15]) by mta11.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.02.04 201-2219-117-106-20090629) with ESMTP id <20100227175412.HAGY8038.mta11.charter.net@imp10> for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:54:12 -0500 Received: from kelly ([68.114.55.67]) by imp10 with smtp.charter.net id n5uB1d00E1T0s04055uCKx; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:54:12 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=rpmCNmB7YY0A:10 a=auhbpA1w4kb4U7JhR6cA:9 a=YJuiELverVI8NCduF1cA:7 a=qC4Em6jwRmOyi8bFEsFShNLllYYA:4 a=ze363YKDJY3Ro6XT:21 a=EB2TA3PM_rERwwn9:21 Message-ID: From: "Union Consult" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 65, Issue 9 Tiger ppoly? I think not X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:54:23 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:54:07 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:54:23 -0000 1. Folks- you are still forgetting to cut off most of the trailing messages when you reply. Not cutting them off is irresponsible netiquite (sp?) like Tiger's activities were irresponsible pormiscuity. 2. I understand polyamory to be responsible open consenual loving behavior and I support and applaud it. Let's not confuse it with guys (and to a lesser extent gals) who just like to enjoy sex outside of their primary relationship and not talk about it. 3. I have been in a relationship where it was agreed we might have sex with others and we agreed to be quiet and discreet about it. I have been in a relationship where I have "cheated". I have been in a relationship where I was monogamous while my partner was not, knew it, didn't confront her about it, and just let it pass. None of these relationships were "better" or "worse" as a result of the above. They were merely different in this regard. Their quality or lack thereof was a funciton of a host of other non-sexual variables. Just a few thoughts on a quiet Saturday. From mnstrm@erosong.net Sat Feb 27 13:14:40 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f175.google.com (mail-gy0-f175.google.com [209.85.160.175]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1RIEepG001345 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:14:40 -0500 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5so552955gyd.20 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:14:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.101.173.10 with SMTP id a10mr3061017anp.14.1267294477168; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:14:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from draco (c-98-247-39-6.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [98.247.39.6]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 6sm480205yxg.66.2010.02.27.10.14.35 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:14:35 -0800 (PST) From: "Moonstorm Erosong" To: References: <218ed5c51002261654q67fa87d2v270df3c8746b7072@mail.gmail.com> <173880.50002.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <173880.50002.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000901cab7d8$b6a16590$23e430b0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acq3TJbdwPLvi933SoaY9v32iu0CgAAiRmOw Content-Language: en-us Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o1RIEepG001345 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Tiger "poly"?? (was: Poly in the news) X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:14:40 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:14:31 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:14:40 -0000 Desmond, philosophically I agree with you, and from what I can tell from the news, you may well be right about Tiger Woods and his attitudes. However, I think it's worthwhile to realize that there are a lot of currently well-functioning polyamorists who have at one point or other in their lives gone through an adulterous phase. Many of us went through a period in which we thought of ourselves as "failed monogamists," and were greatly relieved to find that there was an alternative philosophical context in which to hold our tendency toward having multiple simultaneous romantic relationships. The philosophical discovery of polyamory is often a salvation for these people, although it doesn't always result in the salvation of their adulterous marriages. A few such people probably succeed in negotiating truly polyamorous arrangements with their current spouses, but I suspect most have wound up having to end those monogamous marriages and move on to a new poly relationship. By the way, as a side note: Is it just me or does the current rash of laughable sex scandals amongst celebrities (politicians particularly) seem to indicate that men of power are getting more and more incompetent at concealing adulterous relationships? Blessings, 'Storm -----Original Message----- From: uupoly-l-bounces+mnstrm=erosong.net@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+mnstrm=erosong.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of Desmond Ravenstone Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:31 PM To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Subject: [UUPoly-L] Tiger "poly"?? (was: Poly in the news) Frankly, I think trying to recruit celebrities who cheat on their spouse into the poly camp is like trying to turn an alcoholic into a wine connoisseur. Polyamory and monogamy are both about responsibility and integrity. Poly is about much more than "having more than one partner," just as monogamy is about much more than "having only one partner." I've often said that it says much about our society that we have no word for what I half-jokingly call "monogamous promiscuity" -- that is, engaging in an empty and indiscriminate relationship with a single person, instead of being more mindful about the quality of our relationships. Everything I've read about Tiger's dalliances indicates a rather empty, uncaring approach towards his partners. It seemed he relished the thrill of the hunt, the sense of conquest -- but not much more. Hardly a prime candidate for polyamory, or any other paradigm of responsible relating. Desmond Ravenstone "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a thousand forms..." http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone --- On Fri, 2/26/10, Cynthia Armistead wrote: > From: Cynthia Armistead > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Friday, February 26, 2010, 7:54 PM > GAH - get it off! Geit it off! I > don't want to be associated with Raelians! > Oooooo! > > I have so many problems with Vorlihon's "open letter" (aka > "grab for media > attention") that it's hard to know where to start. For one > thing, current > usage generally uses the term adultery, as opposed to > fornication or > extramarital sex or some other term, to carry negative > connotations, like > this definition from Princeton's WordNetWeb: extramarital > sex that willfully > and maliciously interferes with marriage relations > *"adultery is often cited > as grounds for divorce" ( > http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=adultery)*. > Volihon's claim > that it is "natural" is ridiculous - most of the people I > know do NOT engage > in adultery, whether nor not they engage in extramarital > sex. > > The remarks about Elin Nordegren being jealous are way out > of line. We don't > know if or how jealous she is, but it's clear that her > trust has been > violated. > > I definitely agree with Gordon that Woods failed in terms > of having "done > responsibly" by anyone. His wife and at least some of his > lovers have been > hurt. The scrutiny surrounding him does not in any way > preclude honesty. > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Stacey Greenstein wrote: > > > Yes, but how much of that is because he didn't have > the support (or > > knowledge/understanding) to do poly responsibly? Did > he only have the > > societally accepted choices: Be monogamous, or cheat. > That's what society > > teaches. Had he had the support of a poly-positive > community, would he have > > made different choices? If he wouldn't have done > anything different, he's a > > cheater. If he would have done differently, he's a > struggling poly. IMHO. > > > > Nonsense. I don't know anyone who has had the support of a > poly-positive > community, yet I know people who have "done" poly > responsibly. How do you > explain these people? How do you explain me, and presumably > you, and however > many people are here with us? I'm sure none of us can lay > claim to > perfection, but unless someone hails from a paradise that I > don't know > about, we're all living in a real world that is holding > onto a  monogamous > ideal that works out to serial monogamy most of the time. > > > > > I wonder how many famous-like people who come out > publicly and say they > > "cheated" on their spouse, do it only because the > public found out they had > > these extra relationships, and how many actually had > reasonable poly > > relationships that they had to keep quiet from their > peers because > > educating > > their peers would take too much away from the other > work they had to do. > > Can > > a politician or a sports figure or an actor have a > chance at a successful > > poly relationship in today's social climate, and have > that relationship > > found out by the public, and have that relationship > and their career > > survive? It's questions like these that give me some > degree of sympathy for > > these outed "cheaters". > > > > How many of us have access to the resources those > famous-like people have? > It isn't that I want to live their lives, because I really > wouldn't be > willing to trade my privacy for material wealth - BUT most > of the made their > choices and fought to get where they are. I'm not about to > pity them. They > can afford travel to see LDRs much more easily than most of > us, to note just > one little detail that comes to mind! > > I figure that if Tiger Woods is a "struggling poly" he's a > reasonably smart > guy, and at any point in time he could have done a little > research on how to > deal with multiple relationships. If he did so, he would > have found one of > the many, many web sites about polyamory. We would have > been here for him, > right? It's so easy to set up an anonymous-enough email > account that he > could have done it at any time. Heck - he has enough money > that he could > have bought the closest thing to true anonymity you can get > (although I > figure he would have been better off to just get a gmail > account and keep it > low key). > > As far as we know, he didn't do that. It's unlikely that > we'll ever know, > though. That's one reason I've mostly ignore the whole > Tiger Woods > kerfluffle, other than vaguely thinking that this must > really be horrible > for his wife and kids. > > Cyn > http://technomom.com/ > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From aine.maire@gmail.com Sat Feb 27 13:25:39 2010 Received: from mail-fx0-f214.google.com (mail-fx0-f214.google.com [209.85.220.214]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1RIPcYx002285 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:25:39 -0500 Received: by fxm6 with SMTP id 6so1175849fxm.2 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:25:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.16.216 with SMTP id p24mr2437302faa.66.1267295137166; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:25:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <000901cab7d8$b6a16590$23e430b0$@net> References: <218ed5c51002261654q67fa87d2v270df3c8746b7072@mail.gmail.com> <173880.50002.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000901cab7d8$b6a16590$23e430b0$@net> From: aine.maire@gmail.com Message-ID: <80de162a1002271025k5a576995td53290134f7613e2@mail.gmail.com> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Tiger "poly"?? (was: Poly in the news) X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:25:39 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:25:17 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:25:39 -0000 I think that unlike the old days when the media might give a nod and a wink to a cheating politician because that was considered private and not for the public to know about (witness half of our ex-presidents). Today, it not only improves ratings on TV and sales of gossip magazines, but personal information about celebs and politicos is considered to be public information. And it gives people something to talk about at the water cooler besides the weather and gossip about coworkers. Just my slightly cynical two cents. Anne On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 13:14, Moonstorm Erosong wrote: > > By the way, as a side note: Is it just me or does the current rash of > laughable sex scandals amongst celebrities (politicians particularly) seem > to indicate that men of power are getting more and more incompetent at > concealing adulterous relationships? > > Blessings, > > 'Storm From desmondravenstone@yahoo.com Sat Feb 27 13:26:37 2010 Received: from web50506.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web50506.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.38.82]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o1RIQb1T002790 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:26:37 -0500 Received: (qmail 48265 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Feb 2010 18:26:37 -0000 Message-ID: <370027.47769.qm@web50506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: q.sK6WwVM1mGTY1yM88Sy_LZTLE9NmS2dOBhvLZc7INfF7y KGPK8TCu_3G7neO.mHg.lf9.uk8HF0aflBrfHv2wk7y15LmelAfQCoDyO9OC fkrEv86ijFY6Wm2QmDtQIWO6GxQsnGTi7SlXW8hUL043IN3IjSQ.3yqzHD5P J75UEdZMVc_roVyrX55TmSiFkyhlragMhpeu8PLPHYdU0z8gFv3aktgiS8Ps BCMJu.DNSkizYysgoV8koAmerEoiQouYFe9.a6tA7fl933iaTH4BXM6oiZz0 - Received: from [108.97.60.181] by web50506.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:26:37 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 From: Desmond Ravenstone To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: <000901cab7d8$b6a16590$23e430b0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o1RIQb1T002790 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Tiger "poly"?? (was: Poly in the news) X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:26:37 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:26:37 -0800 (PST) X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:26:37 -0000 --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Moonstorm Erosong wrote: >> I think it's worthwhile to realize that there are a lot of currently well-functioning polyamorists who have at one point or other in their lives gone through an adulterous phase. Drawing on the "alcohol analogy" I used before, sounds like being raised in a temperance/abstinence environment, then secretly sampling fine wines and scotch and microbrews, then later coming out as a connoisseur. All the more reason to have a viable community for people to join and learn from. >> By the way, as a side note:  Is it just me or does the current rash of laughable sex scandals amongst celebrities (politicians particularly) seem to indicate that men of power are getting more and more incompetent at concealing adulterous relationships? IMHO two things are contributing to this: the rise in media technology making it easier to both find and disseminate evidence, and less tolerance for hypocritical double standards. I think the real breakthrough will come when more celebrities come out as poly without being pressured by unwanted disclosure. Imagine: A politician and his/her family discuss in an interview that they have an open relationship; a secondary relationship is found, and they refer back to the interview, and everyone says; "So what? It's not like they lied or broke their promises to one another." Desmond Ravenstone "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a thousand forms..." http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone From polymike.rtfm@gmail.com Sat Feb 27 13:33:07 2010 Received: from mail-iw0-f176.google.com (mail-iw0-f176.google.com [209.85.223.176]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1RIX6Yu003588 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:33:07 -0500 Received: by iwn6 with SMTP id 6so1124661iwn.10 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:33:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.146.66 with SMTP id g2mr417822ibv.88.1267295584427; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:33:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.2? (user-12l3jdf.cable.mindspring.com [69.81.205.175]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 22sm1192045iwn.4.2010.02.27.10.33.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:33:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B896557.3050202@gmail.com> From: Mike User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org References: <218ed5c51002261654q67fa87d2v270df3c8746b7072@mail.gmail.com> <173880.50002.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000901cab7d8$b6a16590$23e430b0$@net> In-Reply-To: <000901cab7d8$b6a16590$23e430b0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Tiger "poly"?? X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:33:07 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:32:55 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:33:07 -0000 I suspect it's more a case of journalists and would-be journalists becoming better at tracking down these outside "relationships". Mike Moonstorm Erosong wrote: > By the way, as a side note: Is it just me or does the current rash of > laughable sex scandals amongst celebrities (politicians particularly) seem > to indicate that men of power are getting more and more incompetent at > concealing adulterous relationships? > > Blessings, > > 'Storm From licorice.gumdrop@gmail.com Sat Feb 27 13:39:29 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f202.google.com (mail-yx0-f202.google.com [209.85.210.202]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1RIdTi6004322 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:39:29 -0500 Received: by yxe40 with SMTP id 40so515039yxe.10 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.252.13 with SMTP id z13mr2268422ybh.116.1267295968722; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?10.28.219.170? ([166.137.9.209]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 36sm473702yxh.49.2010.02.27.10.39.27 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:39:28 -0800 (PST) References: <218ed5c51002261654q67fa87d2v270df3c8746b7072@mail.gmail.com> <173880.50002.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000901cab7d8$b6a16590$23e430b0$@net> Message-Id: <5D820CEB-2F56-4634-906A-B01F8B36E1DD@gmail.com> From: licorice gumdrop To: "uupoly-l@uupa.org" In-Reply-To: <000901cab7d8$b6a16590$23e430b0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (7E18) Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 7E18) Cc: "" Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Tiger "poly"?? (was: Poly in the news) X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:39:29 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:39:19 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:39:29 -0000 perhaps they, on some level, wish to get caught. or don't think their extra-curricular activities are a big deal. we rarely hear what the "cheated on" partner thinks of the whole thing. - jenny On Feb 27, 2010, at 1:14 PM, "Moonstorm Erosong" wrote: > > By the way, as a side note: Is it just me or does the current rash of > laughable sex scandals amongst celebrities (politicians > particularly) seem > to indicate that men of power are getting more and more incompetent at > concealing adulterous relationships? > > Blessings, > > 'Storm From poohmd@comcast.net Sat Feb 27 14:15:02 2010 Received: from qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.48]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1RJEOVM006488 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:15:02 -0500 Received: from omta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.51]) by qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id n6cm1d00716LCl0557EE0i; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:14:14 +0000 Received: from [10.68.122.117] ([166.137.10.238]) by omta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id n7Dm1d009589CDS3S7DwUj; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:14:09 +0000 References: <218ed5c51002261654q67fa87d2v270df3c8746b7072@mail.gmail.com> <173880.50002.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000901cab7d8$b6a16590$23e430b0$@net> <80de162a1002271025k5a576995td53290134f7613e2@mail.gmail.com> Message-Id: From: Gary Wynn To: "uupoly-l@uupa.org" In-Reply-To: <80de162a1002271025k5a576995td53290134f7613e2@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (7E18) Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 7E18) Cc: "uupoly-l@uupa.org" Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Tiger "poly"?? (was: Poly in the news) X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:15:02 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:13:41 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:15:02 -0000 Just my obsessiveness here, but other than Nixon, we have former Presidents, not ex. Great discussion. G On Feb 27, 2010, at 1:25 PM, aine.maire@gmail.com wrote: > I think that unlike the old days when the media might give a nod and > a wink > to a cheating politician because that was considered private and not > for the > public to know about (witness half of our ex-presidents). Today, it > not only > improves ratings on TV and sales of gossip magazines, but personal > information about celebs and politicos is considered to be public > information. And it gives people something to talk about at the > water cooler > besides the weather and gossip about coworkers. > > Just my slightly cynical two cents. > Anne > > On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 13:14, Moonstorm Erosong > wrote: > >> >> By the way, as a side note: Is it just me or does the current rash >> of >> laughable sex scandals amongst celebrities (politicians >> particularly) seem >> to indicate that men of power are getting more and more incompetent >> at >> concealing adulterous relationships? >> >> Blessings, >> >> 'Storm > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about > yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l From joybirdpt@yahoo.com Sat Feb 27 18:28:53 2010 Received: from web112402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (web112402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.26.77]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o1RNSJsb018685 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:28:53 -0500 Received: (qmail 6066 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Feb 2010 23:28:18 -0000 Message-ID: <710415.6046.qm@web112402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 12uLyfcVM1kF.UYWKM1yg7aIqOCkCpXvSlGZPCQ9C3TWLh7oVLUz2po4GG1Hwbil7rv1Z9PgPbeRxPFOhfgVHovDHRMuJt2jqQUHhH0OtTOpiS5TsgNgZr3DfbzJ_laOScgtTKVLBgT3fUfQ0uEfESgmGGuUtvjl52i9yIrqWFU0fbEmOeefA81ydfQlLnG3SB4pWW8iyUyrZ7X6qlXJnc0hvD.NcXZF49bJrr6IEntcZKcGFW.C_fChLKBYYez9jxcMCz2hN7MiCOa4RTddIDZiFDdTEnPSjtJrc6dCsMIW9v3S_rF.iGCmghiSU3nesy8Qzn8bW8cD9DE_1fx1MSy0767.O.qAF3B4v7hTUGZmyGrrlsdH73MalNw- Received: from [70.32.198.119] by web112402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:28:18 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 From: Joyce Burton To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Tiger "poly"?? (was: Poly in the news) X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:28:54 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:28:18 -0800 (PST) X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:28:54 -0000 Beautifully said.=A0 ------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:31:23 -0800 (PST) From: Desmond Ravenstone Subject: [UUPoly-L] Tiger "poly"?? (was: Poly in the news) To:=A0uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: <173880.50002.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1 Frankly, I think trying to recruit celebrities who cheat on their spouse in= to the poly camp is like trying to turn an alcoholic into a wine connoisseu= r. Polyamory=A0and monogamy are both about responsibility and integrity.=A0 Po= ly is about much more than "having more than one partner," just as monogamy= is about much more than "having only one partner." I've often said that it says much about our society that we have no word fo= r what I half-jokingly call "monogamous promiscuity" -- that is, engaging i= n an empty and indiscriminate relationship with a single person, instead of= being more mindful about the quality of our relationships. Everything I've read about Tiger's dalliances indicates a rather empty, unc= aring approach towards his partners.=A0 It seemed he relished the thrill of= the hunt, the sense of conquest -- but not much more.=A0 Hardly a prime ca= ndidate for polyamory, or any other paradigm of responsible relating. Desmond Ravenstone "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a thousand= forms..." http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone =0A=0A=0A From brentteague40@yahoo.com Sat Feb 27 22:04:48 2010 Received: from web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.150]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o1S34EBQ030528 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:04:47 -0500 Received: (qmail 34631 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Feb 2010 03:04:13 -0000 Message-ID: <52009.33846.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: UZ888zIVM1mYR_cK7wzEfE19RSkJYFpjJ8_SWG4oe7gjw.VzBt_cnG710B3kliy3b9QZWOJePmJ9CVlhc2KlOmjKZSWnKwiWmsSlK8qaKXgfBYnpUOPB9LynIbN.d1KrqwJE2g64VlI43Mc4SV2niXi2zIE6mxE7FHB7QGCuGO7QPa19916OPKApiuM2nBpKfARoq2JKz.mXnMshBWeFwkG.VMvfdpfYT27MT4VR7VR8Mcn9YAwqFwMK9DJPh.Ng3c1MkYqKuFJUhL7mfo79wafJnQwIIUP6lu3QdNnUkaYVOe5.nsBEBQ5Xw6guS9YGTKZemyXUmT.KIWMQu5gw8y5pSw-- Received: from [75.231.68.164] by web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:04:12 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 From: * Brent * To: uupoly-l@uupa.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 65, Issue 9 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:04:48 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:04:12 -0800 (PST) X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:04:48 -0000 Okay, well - my last submission in response to the mele of Mr. Woods - was a bit on the cynical side - however, the main point which seems to be taken quite well & with enthusiasm was the bar-b-que of Mr. Woods by the press, when in fact, he is NOT the only professional athlete with extra-marital relations while on a sporting tour.=A0 It would appear to me much more that executives of the press loved letting such a story hit the masses in the face simply because the man does (or has had) such a fine, if not "sterling" image, especially for the black male of the United States of America. =A0 Thus, the press execs jumped at this "opportunity" to single out one individual and deliberately and quite maliciously tar-and-feather his name, and drag his (once good) name through as much mud as they could possibly find.=A0 This to me is an abuse of the freedom of press - where they so eloquently refrained from picking any other star athletes with which to perform the same measures. =A0 It is an imbalance of the scales of Lady Liberty=20 and an injustice to one single man who very well may make a better polyman than myself. =A0 I say Mr. Woods was quite unfairly and harshly judged by the press.=A0 That is all. Brent Teague, mba 406.595.0127 Veteran-U.S. Air Force --- On Sat, 2/27/10, uupoly-l-request@uupa.org = wrote: From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 65, Issue 9 To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 10:00 AM Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to =A0=A0=A0 uupoly-l@uupa.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit =A0=A0=A0 http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to =A0=A0=A0 uupoly-l-request@uupa.org You can reach the person managing the list at =A0=A0=A0 uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." Today's Topics: =A0=A0=A01. Tiger "poly"?? (was: Poly in the news) (Desmond Ravenstone) =A0=A0=A02. Re: Poly in the news (Michael Rios) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:31:23 -0800 (PST) From: Desmond Ravenstone Subject: [UUPoly-L] Tiger "poly"?? (was: Poly in the news) To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Message-ID: <173880.50002.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1 Frankly, I think trying to recruit celebrities who cheat on their spouse in= to the poly camp is like trying to turn an alcoholic into a wine connoisseu= r. Polyamory and monogamy are both about responsibility and integrity.=A0 Poly= is about much more than "having more than one partner," just as monogamy i= s about much more than "having only one partner." I've often said that it says much about our society that we have no word fo= r what I half-jokingly call "monogamous promiscuity" -- that is, engaging i= n an empty and indiscriminate relationship with a single person, instead of= being more mindful about the quality of our relationships. Everything I've read about Tiger's dalliances indicates a rather empty, unc= aring approach towards his partners.=A0 It seemed he relished the thrill of= the hunt, the sense of conquest -- but not much more.=A0 Hardly a prime ca= ndidate for polyamory, or any other paradigm of responsible relating. Desmond Ravenstone "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a thousand= forms..." http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone --- On Fri, 2/26/10, Cynthia Armistead wrote: > From: Cynthia Armistead > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Friday, February 26, 2010, 7:54 PM > GAH - get it off! Geit it off! I > don't want to be associated with Raelians! > Oooooo! >=20 > I have so many problems with Vorlihon's "open letter" (aka > "grab for media > attention") that it's hard to know where to start. For one > thing, current > usage generally uses the term adultery, as opposed to > fornication or > extramarital sex or some other term, to carry negative > connotations, like > this definition from Princeton's WordNetWeb: extramarital > sex that willfully > and maliciously interferes with marriage relations > *"adultery is often cited > as grounds for divorce" ( > http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=3Dadultery)*. > Volihon's claim > that it is "natural" is ridiculous - most of the people I > know do NOT engage > in adultery, whether nor not they engage in extramarital > sex. >=20 > The remarks about Elin Nordegren being jealous are way out > of line. We don't > know if or how jealous she is, but it's clear that her > trust has been > violated. >=20 > I definitely agree with Gordon that Woods failed in terms > of having "done > responsibly" by anyone. His wife and at least some of his > lovers have been > hurt. The scrutiny surrounding him does not in any way > preclude honesty. >=20 > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Stacey Greenstein w= rote: >=20 > > Yes, but how much of that is because he didn't have > the support (or > > knowledge/understanding) to do poly responsibly? Did > he only have the > > societally accepted choices: Be monogamous, or cheat. > That's what society > > teaches. Had he had the support of a poly-positive > community, would he have > > made different choices? If he wouldn't have done > anything different, he's a > > cheater. If he would have done differently, he's a > struggling poly. IMHO. > > >=20 > Nonsense. I don't know anyone who has had the support of a > poly-positive > community, yet I know people who have "done" poly > responsibly. How do you > explain these people? How do you explain me, and presumably > you, and however > many people are here with us? I'm sure none of us can lay > claim to > perfection, but unless someone hails from a paradise that I > don't know > about, we're all living in a real world that is holding > onto a? monogamous > ideal that works out to serial monogamy most of the time. >=20 > > > > I wonder how many famous-like people who come out > publicly and say they > > "cheated" on their spouse, do it only because the > public found out they had > > these extra relationships, and how many actually had > reasonable poly > > relationships that they had to keep quiet from their > peers because > > educating > > their peers would take too much away from the other > work they had to do. > > Can > > a politician or a sports figure or an actor have a > chance at a successful > > poly relationship in today's social climate, and have > that relationship > > found out by the public, and have that relationship > and their career > > survive? It's questions like these that give me some > degree of sympathy for > > these outed "cheaters". > > >=20 > How many of us have access to the resources those > famous-like people have? > It isn't that I want to live their lives, because I really > wouldn't be > willing to trade my privacy for material wealth - BUT most > of the made their > choices and fought to get where they are. I'm not about to > pity them. They > can afford travel to see LDRs much more easily than most of > us, to note just > one little detail that comes to mind! >=20 > I figure that if Tiger Woods is a "struggling poly" he's a > reasonably smart > guy, and at any point in time he could have done a little > research on how to > deal with multiple relationships. If he did so, he would > have found one of > the many, many web sites about polyamory. We would have > been here for him, > right? It's so easy to set up an anonymous-enough email > account that he > could have done it at any time. Heck - he has enough money > that he could > have bought the closest thing to true anonymity you can get > (although I > figure he would have been better off to just get a gmail > account and keep it > low key). >=20 > As far as we know, he didn't do that. It's unlikely that > we'll ever know, > though. That's one reason I've mostly ignore the whole > Tiger Woods > kerfluffle, other than vaguely thinking that this must > really be horrible > for his wife and kids. >=20 > Cyn > http://technomom.com/ > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal > about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >=20 =A0 =A0 =A0=20 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:11:04 -0500 From: "Michael Rios" Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news To: Message-ID: <550B5B3CD03648E98C018EC375D2D970@MVRLENOVO2008> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII > -----Original Message----- > From: uupoly-l-bounces+earthfather=3Dcfnc.us@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l- > bounces+earthfather=3Dcfnc.us@uupa.org] On Behalf Of Stacey Greenstein > I wonder how many famous-like people who come out publicly and say they > "cheated" on their spouse, do it only because the public found out they > had > these extra relationships, and how many actually had reasonable poly > relationships that they had to keep quiet from their peers because > educating > their peers would take too much away from the other work they had to do. > Can > a politician or a sports figure or an actor have a chance at a successful > poly relationship in today's social climate, and have that relationship > found out by the public, and have that relationship and their career > survive?=20 Yes, they can.=A0 Tilda Swinton is an Oscar-winning actress who went to the academy awards with two of her lovers.=A0 Many single actors and sports figures have multiple lovers, and it isn't comment-worthy.=A0 The scandal comes when someone has promised *not* to have other lovers, which is part o= f what most people consider marriage to be, and then breaks the promise. Michael Rios ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. UUPoly-L mailing list UUPoly-L@uupa.org http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 65, Issue 9 *************************************** =0A=0A=0A From roni_smith@mac.com Sat Feb 27 22:32:34 2010 Received: from qmta13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.243]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1S3W0Jf032425 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:32:33 -0500 Received: from omta23.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.90]) by qmta13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id nFWd1d0051wfjNsADFXugP; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:31:54 +0000 Received: from c-98-246-16-139.hsd1.or.comcast.net ([98.246.16.139]) by omta23.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id nFSs1d001301bka8jFSseV; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:26:54 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) From: Ron In-Reply-To: <52009.33846.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-Id: References: <52009.33846.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by msb.ernest-doss.org id o1S3W0Jf032425 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 65, Issue 9 X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:32:34 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:27:15 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:32:34 -0000 Well, those are interesting views. It would be a vast mistake, IMO, to attempt to claim Mr. Woods as a polyman. Of course, that is my opinion. Ron On Feb 27, 2010, at 7:04 PM, * Brent * wrote: > Okay, well - my last submission in response > to the mele of Mr. Woods - was a bit on the > cynical side - however, the main point which > seems to be taken quite well & with enthusiasm > was the bar-b-que of Mr. Woods by the press, > when in fact, he is NOT the only professional > athlete with extra-marital relations while on > a sporting tour. It would appear to me much > more that executives of the press loved letting > such a story hit the masses in the face simply > because the man does (or has had) such a > fine, if not "sterling" image, especially for the > black male of the United States of America. > > Thus, the press execs jumped at this "opportunity" > to single out one individual and deliberately and > quite maliciously tar-and-feather his name, and > drag his (once good) name through as much mud > as they could possibly find. This to me is an > abuse of the freedom of press - where they so > eloquently refrained from picking any other star > athletes with which to perform the same measures. > > It is an imbalance of the scales of Lady Liberty > and an injustice to one single man who very well > may make a better polyman than myself. > > I say Mr. Woods was quite unfairly and harshly > judged by the press. That is all. > > > > > Brent Teague, mba > > 406.595.0127 > > > > Veteran-U.S. Air Force > > --- On Sat, 2/27/10, uupoly-l-request@uupa.org wrote: > > > From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 65, Issue 9 > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 10:00 AM > > > Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to > uupoly-l@uupa.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > uupoly-l-request@uupa.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > uupoly-l-owner@uupa.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Tiger "poly"?? (was: Poly in the news) (Desmond Ravenstone) > 2. Re: Poly in the news (Michael Rios) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:31:23 -0800 (PST) > From: Desmond Ravenstone > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Tiger "poly"?? (was: Poly in the news) > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org > Message-ID: <173880.50002.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Frankly, I think trying to recruit celebrities who cheat on their spouse into the poly camp is like trying to turn an alcoholic into a wine connoisseur. > > Polyamory and monogamy are both about responsibility and integrity. Poly is about much more than "having more than one partner," just as monogamy is about much more than "having only one partner." > > I've often said that it says much about our society that we have no word for what I half-jokingly call "monogamous promiscuity" -- that is, engaging in an empty and indiscriminate relationship with a single person, instead of being more mindful about the quality of our relationships. > > Everything I've read about Tiger's dalliances indicates a rather empty, uncaring approach towards his partners. It seemed he relished the thrill of the hunt, the sense of conquest -- but not much more. Hardly a prime candidate for polyamory, or any other paradigm of responsible relating. > > Desmond Ravenstone > > "What you call sin, I call the great spirit of love, which takes a thousand forms..." > > http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com > http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone > > > --- On Fri, 2/26/10, Cynthia Armistead wrote: > >> From: Cynthia Armistead >> Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news >> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org >> Date: Friday, February 26, 2010, 7:54 PM >> GAH - get it off! Geit it off! I >> don't want to be associated with Raelians! >> Oooooo! >> >> I have so many problems with Vorlihon's "open letter" (aka >> "grab for media >> attention") that it's hard to know where to start. For one >> thing, current >> usage generally uses the term adultery, as opposed to >> fornication or >> extramarital sex or some other term, to carry negative >> connotations, like >> this definition from Princeton's WordNetWeb: extramarital >> sex that willfully >> and maliciously interferes with marriage relations >> *"adultery is often cited >> as grounds for divorce" ( >> http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=adultery)*. >> Volihon's claim >> that it is "natural" is ridiculous - most of the people I >> know do NOT engage >> in adultery, whether nor not they engage in extramarital >> sex. >> >> The remarks about Elin Nordegren being jealous are way out >> of line. We don't >> know if or how jealous she is, but it's clear that her >> trust has been >> violated. >> >> I definitely agree with Gordon that Woods failed in terms >> of having "done >> responsibly" by anyone. His wife and at least some of his >> lovers have been >> hurt. The scrutiny surrounding him does not in any way >> preclude honesty. >> >> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Stacey Greenstein wrote: >> >>> Yes, but how much of that is because he didn't have >> the support (or >>> knowledge/understanding) to do poly responsibly? Did >> he only have the >>> societally accepted choices: Be monogamous, or cheat. >> That's what society >>> teaches. Had he had the support of a poly-positive >> community, would he have >>> made different choices? If he wouldn't have done >> anything different, he's a >>> cheater. If he would have done differently, he's a >> struggling poly. IMHO. >>> >> >> Nonsense. I don't know anyone who has had the support of a >> poly-positive >> community, yet I know people who have "done" poly >> responsibly. How do you >> explain these people? How do you explain me, and presumably >> you, and however >> many people are here with us? I'm sure none of us can lay >> claim to >> perfection, but unless someone hails from a paradise that I >> don't know >> about, we're all living in a real world that is holding >> onto a? monogamous >> ideal that works out to serial monogamy most of the time. >> >>> >>> I wonder how many famous-like people who come out >> publicly and say they >>> "cheated" on their spouse, do it only because the >> public found out they had >>> these extra relationships, and how many actually had >> reasonable poly >>> relationships that they had to keep quiet from their >> peers because >>> educating >>> their peers would take too much away from the other >> work they had to do. >>> Can >>> a politician or a sports figure or an actor have a >> chance at a successful >>> poly relationship in today's social climate, and have >> that relationship >>> found out by the public, and have that relationship >> and their career >>> survive? It's questions like these that give me some >> degree of sympathy for >>> these outed "cheaters". >>> >> >> How many of us have access to the resources those >> famous-like people have? >> It isn't that I want to live their lives, because I really >> wouldn't be >> willing to trade my privacy for material wealth - BUT most >> of the made their >> choices and fought to get where they are. I'm not about to >> pity them. They >> can afford travel to see LDRs much more easily than most of >> us, to note just >> one little detail that comes to mind! >> >> I figure that if Tiger Woods is a "struggling poly" he's a >> reasonably smart >> guy, and at any point in time he could have done a little >> research on how to >> deal with multiple relationships. If he did so, he would >> have found one of >> the many, many web sites about polyamory. We would have >> been here for him, >> right? It's so easy to set up an anonymous-enough email >> account that he >> could have done it at any time. Heck - he has enough money >> that he could >> have bought the closest thing to true anonymity you can get >> (although I >> figure he would have been better off to just get a gmail >> account and keep it >> low key). >> >> As far as we know, he didn't do that. It's unlikely that >> we'll ever know, >> though. That's one reason I've mostly ignore the whole >> Tiger Woods >> kerfluffle, other than vaguely thinking that this must >> really be horrible >> for his wife and kids. >> >> Cyn >> http://technomom.com/ >> _______________________________________________ >> The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. >> Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal >> about yourself. >> UUPoly-L mailing list >> UUPoly-L@uupa.org >> http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:11:04 -0500 > From: "Michael Rios" > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly in the news > To: > Message-ID: <550B5B3CD03648E98C018EC375D2D970@MVRLENOVO2008> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: uupoly-l-bounces+earthfather=cfnc.us@uupa.org [mailto:uupoly-l- >> bounces+earthfather=cfnc.us@uupa.org] On Behalf Of Stacey Greenstein > > >> I wonder how many famous-like people who come out publicly and say they >> "cheated" on their spouse, do it only because the public found out they >> had >> these extra relationships, and how many actually had reasonable poly >> relationships that they had to keep quiet from their peers because >> educating >> their peers would take too much away from the other work they had to do. >> Can >> a politician or a sports figure or an actor have a chance at a successful >> poly relationship in today's social climate, and have that relationship >> found out by the public, and have that relationship and their career >> survive? > > Yes, they can. Tilda Swinton is an Oscar-winning actress who went to the > academy awards with two of her lovers. Many single actors and sports > figures have multiple lovers, and it isn't comment-worthy. The scandal > comes when someone has promised *not* to have other lovers, which is part of > what most people consider marriage to be, and then breaks the promise. > > Michael Rios > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l > > > End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 65, Issue 9 > *************************************** > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives. > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to reveal about yourself. > UUPoly-L mailing list > UUPoly-L@uupa.org > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l Blog and travel photos at: http://web.mac.com/roni_smith/ From JasmineGld@aol.com Sat Feb 27 22:33:55 2010 Received: from imr-da01.mx.aol.com (imr-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.105.143]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1S3XMqL000564 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:33:55 -0500 Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imr-da01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1S3XFp9013177 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:33:15 -0500 Received: from JasmineGld@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id g.ccd.7079d202 (45073) for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:33:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from magic-m18.mail.aol.com (magic-m18.mail.aol.com [172.21.136.206]) by cia-mc02.mx.aol.com (v127_r1.2) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMC025-b0114b89e3f61e7; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:33:10 -0500 From: JasmineGld@aol.com Message-ID: <656f6.6b85125e.38bb3df6@aol.com> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5379 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 74.130.8.252 X-AOL-IP: 172.21.136.206 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: JasmineGld@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Eliot Spitzer X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:33:56 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:33:10 EST X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:33:56 -0000 At Poly Living last weekend, I learned something new and eye-popping about Eliot Spitzer, the former Governor of New York who resigned from office amid a sex scandal. Mr. Spitzer was an expert on AIG. But nobody wanted to listen to anything that Mr. Spitzer had to say about AIG, because of his sex scandal. The moral of THIS story is that castigating a fallen politician is FAR more important to Americans than saving the world economy from disaster. Priorities. Jasmine > Thus, the press execs jumped at this "opportunity" > to single out one individual and deliberately and > quite maliciously tar-and-feather his name, and > drag his (once good) name through as much mud > as they could possibly find. From greystone.house@pacbell.net Sun Feb 28 00:42:52 2010 Received: from smtp101.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (smtp101.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [67.195.15.60]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id o1S5gHeq006982 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 00:42:51 -0500 Received: (qmail 17462 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2010 05:42:16 -0000 Received: from adsl-75-18-230-54.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net (greystone.house@75.18.230.54 with login) by smtp101.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2010 21:42:16 -0800 PST X-Yahoo-SMTP: xS6r5G6swBDFMM5aX5w3GvF6PVrg7BsZUjqbfT16y5gki9exndB1DA-- X-YMail-OSG: bSSrl9sVM1kUXPzuj8A3iLnxmzGuu1gwbI.2UUOHGNEl4wtLvHoD_Q.lqeMIKiYpZu88lahQjm4hGmtNMnp76EsCQDa3dtp2eLyFGPmXxetPbGX7J2jo5Jr7q81khR2cjmv5nMICOcUUVtTrVqFS9MQCkee41sp2eoXy8Jn.Kd3AyTMtrZYkoFUIFAZUj1OjM7RrBeykzOgBmmUbJLw1YCZvsJRHq8A.7_P9otwKyk0ffzXje7XsKMwEmFNXPUju X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: From: "Emily M.-R. B." To: References: <173880.50002.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <173880.50002.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Organization: Greystone House MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Tiger "poly"?? (was: Poly in the news) X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 05:42:52 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:42:10 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 05:42:52 -0000 Desmond Ravenstone wrote: "Polyamory and monogamy are both about responsibility and integrity." Thank you; exactly! I have to admit that the argument that says that ignorance of extant alternatives is an excuse for unethical behavior & betrayal of trust does not sit well with me. I do recognize that people make mistakes, and make decisions for the wrong reasons, and fall victim to denial, and so on. (Gods know I've done so myself on more than a few occasions!) But there has to be a limit to what should & can be accepted, and for me that line lies in the difference between understanding and excusing. To excuse is to enable, and it is ultimately to the detriment of everyone involved, because it solves nothing. In this case, to excuse Tiger Woods' dishonesties and to attempt to claim him for the polyamorous community smacks unpleasantly of a kind of celebrity worship based in insecurity. (It's an oddly modern expression of insecurity that says that we aren't a valid community unless we can claim a few celebrity members, imo....) On the other hand, the poly community can offer a degree of understanding, and perhaps resources to learn better ways of living non-monogamously. Yes, many of us have made poor or unethical choices along the way, and the accumulated wisdom of the poly community regarding such things as honesty & communication is in no small part a result of those experiences. However, that same experience-based wisdom should simply underscore the un-wisdom of excusing a history of unethical actions, because that is a course of action likely to simply perpetuate the behaviors by giving them tacit acceptance. (And surely that is not the image we, as a community, wish to have in the public eye? Particularly when it appears to be a result of an attempt to bask in the reflected glory, however tarnished, of celebrity?) So I, for one, have no interest in claiming Tiger Woods as polyamorous until he has a track record of acting in accordance with the commonly accepted values of *ethical* non-monogamy. From cwlee@post.harvard.edu Sun Feb 28 03:34:14 2010 Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1S8YE4b016456 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:34:14 -0500 Received: from [4.231.172.135] (helo=System4) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1NlebN-0008Gp-Cd for uupoly-l@uupa.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:34:14 -0500 Message-ID: <459E10FF2A35476EBE68F5D03B7F945D@System4> From: "CWLee" To: References: <173880.50002.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100223-2, 02/23/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-ELNK-Trace: 7141e3bbddc8a6d4f1b7fbad2ae65da374bf435c0eb9d478147ecbd8f25013e25c79e8baeff3a14e75464aa631fe4e88350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.231.172.135 Subject: [UUPoly-L] Interesting Link X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:34:19 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 00:33:40 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:34:19 -0000 The link below, unlike those related to Tiger Woods, is less sensational but nevertheless thought-provoking for poly folks. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100225/thl-promiscuous-females-help-species-d831572.html Best regards to all, Chuck Lee. ---------- CWLee In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. From aine.maire@gmail.com Sun Feb 28 08:00:14 2010 Received: from mail-fx0-f214.google.com (mail-fx0-f214.google.com [209.85.220.214]) by msb.ernest-doss.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o1SD0Ejp007674 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:00:14 -0500 Received: by fxm6 with SMTP id 6so1623379fxm.2 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 05:00:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.16.216 with SMTP id p24mr3428146faa.66.1267362011137; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 05:00:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <459E10FF2A35476EBE68F5D03B7F945D@System4> References: <173880.50002.qm@web50508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <459E10FF2A35476EBE68F5D03B7F945D@System4> From: aine.maire@gmail.com Message-ID: <80de162a1002280459k1f6ced54k612133783d45eab5@mail.gmail.com> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Interesting Link X-BeenThere: uupoly-l@uupa.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: uupoly-l@uupa.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:00:14 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:59:51 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:00:14 -0000 But, of course, we already knew this, didn't we? *smile* Annie:)