Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly Not As Fun As Cheating

["Catherine Deville" <catdeville@cox.net>]

Dave said:

>While cheating is looked down upon by poly folk, sometimes it is the best
>way to keep life on an even keel, and is the most ethical way to solve
>multiple conflicting goals.

And Kelly replied:
<<I have two problems with this kind of reasoning.>>

I agree, and I have a third problem with Dave's reasoning.  His reasoning is
build on the idea that the goals themselves must be met, that such goals are
"needs".  These are also unwarranted assumptions.  It's quite possible that
the goals, in and of themselves are unethical and that the "needs" are
actually "desires" which should be subject to reasonable self controls and
boundaries.  

<<I don't think cheating is ever ethical. I see cheating as damaging 
relationships--either directly when the cheating is discovered or indirectly

by allowing partners to avoid their relationship problems rather than solve 
them. Anything that damages relationships cannot be good for communities 
concerned with family relationships (e.g., open marriage, polyamory, LGBT).

Having said that, I also don't think it's ethical for me to judge others. 
The desert fathers used to say, "If you judge someone for committing 
adultry, then you are just as guilty as the adulterer. For the same god that

said 'Do not commit adultry' also said 'Do not judge others.'"  The same 
applies to cheating. If I judge someone else for cheating, I'm just as 
guilty as the cheater.>>

I agree with the first.  With the second, I don't agree... first, I believe
it's a misinterpretation of the scripture (which I'm well versed in even if
I don't adhere to that belief system anymore) and second, of course, is that
not everyone is "People of the Book" and are therefore held to the ethics of
the 'desert fathers'.  The same theology also teaches, "love the sinner but
hate the sin" and understands that there is a difference between condemning
a behavior and standing in judgment over those who participate in that
behavior (modern psychology also takes this same perception, that it's
possible to separate the behavior from the patient.) 

<<I also know couples in open marriages have cheaters as secondary partners 
more often than they care to admit. It would be hypocritical to pretend 
cheating is not part of the reality of open marriages.>>

It is not hypocritical to say that this behavior is as abhorrent as cheating
on your partner.  If one of my "secondary partners" is cheating on a primary
partner then they are also cheating on me, because they'd have to be lying
to me about not having a primary partner (because I can assure you, if they
*told* me they had a primary partner, I would have discussed our
relationship with that partner directly before assuming that I had
permission to be in relationship with them.)  By lying to me they've made me
an unwilling and unknowing accessory to their cheating - and when I find
out, they've damaged both of their relationships through their lies. 

<<So what does it mean to be tolerant or accepting of cheaters? (not a 
rhetorical question...)>>

I'm sorry, but I choose not to be tolerant or accepting of the behavior
cheating - I see it as an extremely destructive behavior and I can't condone
it, just as I can't condone alcohol or drug addiction.  I might love people
who participate in such behavior, and I will be loving and supportive of
those people, but I will not be supportive of or silent about my distress
over such destructive behavior.  To use recovery verbiage, I won't "enable"
through silence or support the behavior, but that's as much a mark of love
as "acceptance" is... indeed, from my perspective, more so, as it's refusing
to watch while someone you love indulges in destructive behavior. 

NT, 
cat