Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly Not As Fun As Cheating

"Catherine Deville" <catdeville@cox.net> · Tue, 03 Jul 2007 04:12:45 -0000

Dave, perhaps you are happy living in an illusion and being lied to - I am
not, nor could I ever be, and my observation and understanding of human
behavior is that it is rarely a healthy place to be.  And it is my
experience, and my observation, that the illusion *always* falls apart - and
when it does the partners being lied to are not only deeply hurt by the
betrayal, too often their sense of trust is done irreparable damage, and the
damage done by repeated betrayals is cumulative. (It is also a sad
psychological fact that people can easily become the "victims" of such
behavior as a type of neurotic repetition, especially if they come from a
family where cheating was a repeated behavior pattern.) 

So I cannot see the unethical behavior of cheating as 'caring behavior'.
People who believe that they're protecting their partner or children from
"the trauma and cost of divorce" are invariably lying to themselves to
rationalize getting something they want that they're unwilling to pay the
'price' for.  The trauma exists whether it is acknowledged or not, and the
cost is much deeper than dollars.  In my experience, all that living in the
illusion does is ensure that their partner (and usually their children as
well) pay(s) a heavier price than they might have had they been dealt with
honestly and ethically.

Radical loving *requires* radical honesty, IMO, because radical loving
requires that one care enough about ones partner(s) to understand how
damaging and destructive, on a very deep psychological level, betrayal of
trust really is.  Radical loving also requires radical honesty with one's
self/Self- for one cannot love the Self if they do not *know* the Self. And
the term "radical loving" hardly applies to a situation where sex is being
used as a weapon by both parties - that's not loving at all, that's power
politics. 

So whether you're interested in hearing it or not, I hope that your posing
such questions will cause some to reflect on my answers.  I hardly expect to
sway someone who has already determined that lying and cheating is
justifiable - my experience tells me that people who take such a position
are prone to rationalize their position regardless of overwhelming body of
data to the contrary.  I've learned that there are simply people who want
what they want and who are willing to put their desires before caring and
consideration and do what is necessary to rationalize those choices so that
they're able to look at themselves in the mirror in the morning.  I'm not
one of those people.  And while some may judge me as harsh and cold for
feeling this way, my choice to live in the cold, hard reality of what such
behavior does to others requires that I not accept such rationalizations. 

NT,
Cat
-----Original Message-----
From: uupoly-l-bounces+catdeville=cox.net@uupa.org
[mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+catdeville=cox.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of David
Hall
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 9:50 PM
To: uupoly-l@uupa.org
Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly Not As Fun As Cheating

Who is cheating in a marriage where the husband refuses to have sex with the
wife, and she has sex with a man in a reciprocal situation. Two
"relationships" stay together (for the kids????) and at least two people are
happy. Actually, all four are.

Is it more important to uphold a "relationship" where the marriage vows have
been broken, or to find love without putting two families through the trauma
and cost of divorce?

Which is more important, ethics or caring behavior? Is it ethical to hurt
people when that isn't necessary? 

I really am not interested in hearing anyone else's answers to these
questions, they are only to state my view that honesty has its limits. To
hell with radical honesty, I believe in radical loving.

Dave Hall, not one of the other Daves

-----Original Message-----
From: uupoly-l-bounces+airsafe1=comcast.net@uupa.org
[mailto:uupoly-l-bounces+airsafe1=comcast.net@uupa.org] On Behalf Of
Catherine Deville
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 12:20 PM
To: uupoly-l@uupa.org
Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Poly Not As Fun As Cheating

Dave said:
<<While cheating is looked down upon by poly folk, sometimes it is the best
way to keep life on an even keel, and is the most ethical way to solve
multiple conflicting goals. >>

I would have to disagree with that statement... from my ethical base
cheating is *never* ethical, and therefore can never be the "most ethical
way to solve multiple conflicting goals".  Cheating, from my ethic, is
*always* hurtful and dishonorable. 

NT,
Cat

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