[UUPoly-L] Poly & Group Dynamics (was Re: Public face of poly)

[<catdeville@cox.net>]

---- Les Addison <les.addison@gmail.com> wrote: 
> I had a lover who lived with them and was lovers with Liza and Wynter.
> Based on what I randomly gathered from him, I'd never seen the extended
> group as stable, although Oberon and MG have been together and with other
> lovers for ages.

Well, forgive me for assuming that your lover's viewpoint was biased :-) 

But that's precisely my point.  Group dynamics rarely *are* stable, simply as a general principle.  Even a healthy group is going to have fluctuations in membership - people who come and go for various reasons.  People's lives are organic.  Add love to the mix, and it becomes even moreso.  

The fact that someone leaves or goes on to "do their own thing" is neither an indictment of the family group nor of the system as a whole, IMO.  The difference, to me, is much deeper than the mathmatics of "over 50% of monogamous marriages 'fail'..." vs. "yeah, well show me a poly marriage that's lasted 20-30 years."  I think that pitting polyamory vs. monogamy, especially based on such surface concepts as this is gross oversimplification of the worst sort, and Kelly's challenge of "well, there aren't any triads or quads who have lasted 20-30 years" is *just* as gross an oversimplification as to say that monogamy "doesn't work" because 50+ percent of the population can't relate in a monogamous system.  For that 50+ percent that can't relate in a monogamous situation, there are somewhat under 50 percent who *can* and *do* relate within a monogamous system.  And just because we can't point to a some number of 3+ families who have kept their same configuration (or a consistently growing configuration) for 20+ year, while also living in a society where their lifestyle is considered immoral or even illegal and where support systems doesn't really indicate that polyamory is not a viable lifestyle either. 

My triad marriage only lasted about the average time that a monogamous marriage does.  When my first spouse left, it was for similar reasons that would have occured had we been monogamous.  When my second spouse left, it was also for similar reasons that would have occured had we been monogamous (which was really annoying, since it's a pretty determined individual who can destroy their marriage through infidelity in an open polyamorous marriage.) In both cases the failure of the marriage could have been prevented by the application of some pretty simple "couples therapy" principles if either spouse had been willing to engage or had been invested enough in the relationship to put forth the effort and of the psychlogical bent & education level to know that those principles were available to them and to trust in them. 

Couples dynamics and group dynamics are two different things, and in a poly marriage you have to recognize that you're dealing with *both* couples dynamics *and* group dynamics.  And the couples dynamic is different for every pairing within the group (as it would be in any other group which included couples), and those couples dynamics can also overlap (which occurs in other groups which include multi-layered relationships - for example, with husband-wife and siblings, etc.)  And having sex involved in multiple dynamics makes the group dynamic more complex.  If you recognize that and are willing to accept that this means more communication, more commitment (on the part of all partners) and more competancy at group dynamics, this can be managed.  If you don't recognize this, or are unwilling to commit to becoming a good communicator and competant at group dynamics, then it (almost certainly) *will* come around at some point to bite you in the butt. 

And, of course, none of that addresses the fact of what is a "successful" relationship in the first place, which is a separate issue.

Never Thirst,
Cat