Re: [UUPoly-L] Acceptance, tolerance and liberalism

[P O <wild_card@sbcglobal.net>]

Ally,
  Yes, I know what you are talking about.  A few
decades back then Sec of the Interior James Watt got
in trouble for a comment he made when questioned about
the diversity of his department.  He denied the
charges and said: 

 "We have every mixture you can have. I have a black,
a woman, two Jews and a cripple. And we have talent."
-- James G. Watt, describing the members of the U.S.
Commission on Fair Market Value Policy for Federal
Coal Leasing to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce on
September 21, 1983; from Bartlett's Online
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_G._Watt

Some people were offended by the implication that they
had talent in addition to the minorities, but I found
it more offensive that he was tracking all the
minorities he had.  He knew it off the top of his
head, as though he had selected them for that reason.

In the same way I have sat at UU discussions about
improving our diversity and talking about how we can
attract more blacks to our church (since the
population of our area is probably 70%+ black) or more
GBLT members or more young people or whatever.  It
always strikes me as trying to meet that liberality
quota.  It's like 'look at us, we're liberal, we have
all these diffferent and diverse people in our group'.
 But It's still not really focusing on making them
feel a part of the community or  trying to fulfill
their needs. 

It's just bad hospitality.  A good host should focus
on how they can fulfil their guest's needs, not how
the guest can fulfil the host's needs.  Otherwise it's
treating the new people like some sort of trophy, like
who can have the most diversity in their congregation
or their religion.  

I'm not sure I'm, saying this all the right way
either, but it's something I've been trying to work
out in my head for years.  Soemthing about many
'liberals' especially in large groups, has always made
me uncomfortable.  It's why I won't call myself a
liberal.  Something about it just feels... off.  

But so far, UUism is the best religous group I've
found.  It certainly isn't perfect, but it seems to be
trying and strikes me as having the potential to
become something really new and worthwhile.  That's
why I stay with it, even when things are a bit rough.

Pat
  


Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 08:21:21 -0800 From: Ally
<polyfamally@gmail.com> 
Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Acceptance, tolerance and
liberalism 
To: uupoly-l@uupa.org 
Message-ID:
<9dd502f0703020821i7053efdfw32f54dca19fc2ef4@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
format=flowed 
Thank you for putting in to words a concept that I
have struggled to name. In fact I'm not sure you have
quite named it but it's far closer than what I have...
I get the feeling sometimes at our UU church that they
are thrilled to have us there because they think we
are lesbians, and it adds to their diversity quotient.
In reality we are poly, but our husband is far more
interested in a morning alone without the children
than in coming to church, so it's always just the five
of us. I'm not sure how they will react to that added
bit of diversity, but in any case it's not my point.
My point is that while I'm glad to be welcomed, it
feels somewhat as though we are welcomed more for what
we are than for who we are. Does this make any sense? 

Ally 


On 3/1/07, P O <wild_card@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >
Persinally, I hate the idea of tolerance. More to the
> point, I hate the term. It sounds like I'm being >
tolerated, or put up with. It is what Desmond >
Ravenstone earlier refered to as "the "middle ground"
> of not-so-benign neglect -- changing the subject and
> ignoring or avoiding the issue." This is tolerance,
> the don't ask, don't tell mentality. You can do what
> you want, just don't make me have to see it. Among >
the many problems with it, it's just dishonest; it's >
self-deception. I'd rather be honestly told off, I >
can deal with that. The passive tolerance is much >
worse. > > I think is has something to do with the
tradition of > liberalism in the 20th century. I've
seen it time and > again, and not just in regards to
poly, or GBLT or > whatever. It's the "I know lots of
blacks, but I > wouldn't want my daughter to date one"
mentality.It's > what happens when people who really
want to believe > they are liberal and open-minded
finally reach the end > of what they can accept. After
that you can run into > white-knuckle tolerance. They
won't say a bad word > about it, because that
woiuldn't be very > liberal-minded of them, so they
just ignore it. It's > like the old line 'my mother
must be Cleopatra, > because she's the Queen of
Denial'. > > So, just my point on language, I prefer
acceptance, or > open rejection. I can deal with
either of those just > fine. It's being tolerated I
dislike. > > Of course, I'm getting ready to put my
neck out there > big time. I am leading an adult forum
at my church at > the end of April on polyamory. The
guy that is one of > the main organizers of the forums
is pretty excited > about the topic. I just got an
email from him asking > for a write up on the talk and
on my background > suitable for sending into the
papers. He also wants a > digital photo (as luck would
have it I just had > portraits done of our family,
including a solo of > myself, and we have digital
copies). So, I get to > decide just how out of the
closet I'm going to get. > My family isn't too local,
so they may not get the > papers i'll be in, but my
wife's family is, and so are > the people they know.
People I work with may even > read it. > > I gotta
admit, I have done pretty well with acceptance > from
our UU church so far, but I've been pretty > selective
about who I've talked to about it. Now, the > forum
leader is asking me to come out to the general >
public. It's a bit scary. But I think I'm going to >
do it. What the hell, some things are worth the risk.
> > We'll never get acceptance unless we take that
risk > and live openly. > > Pat >
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