[UUPoly-L] Agreements - was Re: Polyamory and pregnancy

[Cynthia Armistead <cyn@technomom.com>]

jay m wrote:
> Thank you all so much for the replies and the kind words. Just out of curiosity, is it okay to email members in the group directly? Please advise.

There aren't any rules against it, as far as I know. As on any other 
list, exchanges between just two people are best taken off-list. Also 
remember that this list's archives are public, so some people may be 
willing to be more open in private exchanges.

I figure that if someone doesn't ever want to be contacted off-list, he 
or she would be wise to let everyone know in a .sig line or something 
like that, on every message.

> Since polyamory involves sex in one of its basics tenets, I was really curious as to what happens afterwards, given the sex was unprotected and hetero.

Eh? Where did the unprotected and hetero part come from? There certainly 
IS hetero sex going on among polyfolk, but it isn't the only sort of sex 
happening! The vast majority of polyfolk I've ever encountered either 
use or say they use safer sex practices. The decision to move to "fluid 
bonding" is usually a major one, and not something that happens right away.

> How does pregnancy and polyamory go together for the primary couple and their lovers?

That varies with every pregnancy :-) BUT, some of us, at least, have 
very explicit agreements with our partners regarding the possibility of 
pregnancy. I consider it irresponsible for anyone, poly or not, to 
engage in PiV intercourse with any opposite-sex adult without 
considering such things, unless one or both parties are absolutely, 
positively known to be permanently infertile. All contraceptive methods 
other than abstinence can fail.

> Does anyone here have first or second-hand knowledge of a secondary or other male lover impregnating the primary wife? If so, how did that work out? Was the primary husband okay with not being the bio dad? Whose name is on the birth certificate, birth announcements, etc? Who changes the diapers at 3 am?

I know of at least one for sure, and have heard of others. Again, it's 
something that varies in every situation. All involved adults really 
need to be able to talk about these kinds of possibilities and come to 
agreements that suit all of them before they have sex (or, at the very 
least, early on in a relationship.

Personally, I know that I would not/could not abort a healthy baby, no 
matter who fathered it. We would prefer that the child's bio-father (and 
primary partner, if he has one) be involved in the child's life as 
co-parents, but Sam would happily claim the child as his if he/they did 
not choose to do so. If another woman were to conceive a child with Sam, 
we would prefer to help her through the pregnancy and co-parent the 
child, or raise it entirely on our own, rather than have a healthy child 
aborted. We would fully support the woman in her choice to abort, 
though, if that were her preference.

Because all that is our in the open, it won't surprise anyone IF the 
situation should ever arise. We've seen too many relationships (not just 
poly ones, by any means) go to pieces over an unplanned pregnancy, and 
there's far too much at stake to be lackadaisical about the possibility. 
In one (poly) case, the bio-father's legal wife demanded that his 
girlfriend abort the child she was carrying. Her ultimatum was answered 
by the husband and girlfriend moving out, and an eventual divorce. The 
divorce got quite nasty, with lots of accusations about who had violated 
what agreements - but they weren't ever written down, and husband, wife, 
and girlfriend all had totally different understandings of the 
agreements they'd supposedly made together.

All of our agreements are written, because that's what works for me and 
my primary partner, Sam. That makes it easy to share the appropriate 
portions with potential SOs, and it also helps avoid memory problems and 
many "that's not what I meant" issues. We spent a lot of time working 
out our agreements, including being very specific about what *we* meant 
by various terms (seriously, there's a glossary). Even with just the two 
of us acting in good faith, we found that there were times when we were 
using the same word to mean very different things, so the process of 
creating the agreements was as valuable as the agreements themselves to 
us as a couple.

Other people can read the agreements and easily know what our values 
are, and as far as most important issues go, what is and isn't 
negotiable (or has been in the past). We can discuss the issues and why 
we've made various decisions easily. Sometimes the other person hasn't 
really thought the same things through and find thats she needs to do 
that. Many people have appreciate having the document as a jumping-off 
point for their own thoughts and agreements with primary partners.

> Besides the obvious for STDs, are there any unwritten rules regarding birth control and conception? 

See above :-)

> Does anyone know of or have heard of any poly families that purposely have children with their secondary or other family units?Thank you very much for the information. I find this topic very fascinating and look forward to your replies. 

Yep.

I should probably note that we're considered terribly, terribly 
conservative (even "sticks in the mud") by many poly people. We're 
completely comfortable with practicing "slow poke poly," but seem to be 
in the minority in that regard. Sam and I have both been in 
non-monogamous relationships for most of our adult lives. Polyamory is 
natural to me, and I've practiced it since my teens with a couple of 
oddball monogamous interludes. His first wife introduced him to 
non-monogamy non-consensually, but after their divorce he eventually 
chose polyamory on his own.

We've both learned from our own experiences as well as those of other 
people we've observed, and we would very much like to avoid making the 
same mistakes over and over again. When we initially opened our 
relationship we had three children in the household, all of whom had 
experienced more than enough turmoil in the past due to divorces and 
other life-changing events. As a result, family stability was one of our 
highest priorities, and that is reflected in our agreements.

Now we have just one minor in the household, and she's getting close to 
grown. Our priorities and lives have changed greatly, so we are 
rewriting our agreements. For instance, stability is still important to 
us, but we no longer have to worry about childcare or custody issues, so 
we can get rid of mention of those. We've been slow about the actual 
writing part, but like I said, we don't like to hurry important things.

Many people assume that written agreements are absolutely fixed, and 
resist them because they want more flexibility. We've always stressed 
the "living document" aspect of the agreements, because they were 
intended to support and improve relationships, not constrict anyone 
unnecessarily. We've changed things over time as we've learned more 
about each other and ourselves, so they certainly aren't carved in 
stone. The main difference in having them, I think, is that they help us 
to be more conscious of our commitments, and neither of us makes 
unilateral changes. They're agreements, not jail sentences.

> Here in Minnesota, we are preparing for apple picking, a trip to the Northshore of Lake Superior for the autumn leaves and a nice drive through farm country to buy some corn stalks for decorations along with some squash, gourds and of course baked goods.

Sounds lovely! I've heard about places with four distinct seasons, and 
seen pictures, so I suppose they aren't entirely mythical ;-) Here in 
Georgia the air conditioning is still vital.

Namaste,
Cyn
--
"Reason often makes mistakes but conscience never does." Â Josh Billings
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