Re: [UUPoly-L] Google Knol Article for Polyamory

["Catherine Deville" <catdeville@cox.net>]

alan7388 said:
<<My experience is that the actual poly vs. swinging difference is not
about the theoretical or behavior differences people have been talking
about here. It's about two different cultures just feel very
different. They attract different crowds in terms of attitudes,
thought-styles, and backgrounds. Yes there are people who move easily
between both, and not all swinging crowds are the same -- but in
general a poly get-together and a swing get-together are very
different.>>

Ashe! {nods vigorously} That's my experience as well. The thing that turned
me off of swinging (*for myself*), was not the idea of having "recreational
sex" with people... I actually have recreational sex, it's just never casual
or disconnected, as that, to me, is not "fun." It was the whole culture of
being *focused* on sex, above and beyond anything else, that just didn't
"feel" right.  It wasn't comfortable for me, or for my husband, who was
excited about the idea walking in the door, and intimidated enough to not
ever want to go back ("SCA parties are much more fun!") when we left. 

<<Real-world example. Here in the Boston area, people in Family Tree (a
poly group) still talk about the time a new guy from the swing
community showed up for a monthly meeting. He seemed not very
intellectual, unlike most of the crowd, and he proceeded to work his
way through the group dangling the keys to a motel room that he'd just
rented in front of each female, one by one, starting with the youngest
and working up. This was obviously a well-practiced behavior that he
expected to be considered normal at this kind of gathering, and that
he expected to work (since he'd already paid for the motel room!).

Every woman he approached was very put off and turned him down, and
some were upset. At last he stormed out, saying "You're all talk and
no action!" and slammed the door hard enough to shake the house.
Clearly, he had the mistaken idea that swinging and poly are similar,
and felt misled.>>

{Nods Again... even more vigorously!} 
My RL example:
My husband and I went to our first "social club" party with a couple of
friends (relatively new friends) who were supposedly not only poly but also
into Tantra, something that I was very interested in learning.  Prior to
this party they seemed like pretty ok people.  He was really cool and laid
back, full of tantric wisdom which he spouted whenever in range of a
potential female.  She we didn't know as well, but hadn't picked up on any
negative vibes from. So when they invited us we were excited to try out this
new thing and see if it fit. We were assured that there were no expectations
and no pressures, we could feel safe socializing at whatever level was
comfortable for us. 

Which ended up not being the case.  When we got there, the party was
centered around drinking and party games which were intended to break the
ice and allow folks to more easily instigate sexual couplings. The party was
in a hotel, so that folks could get rooms so that they could saunter off to
them after pairing off. There was almost no substantive conversations (my
big social thing is talking... wouldn't guess, huh?  I like to get to *know*
people, and my lust centers are triggered more by good intellectual
intercourse than physical foreplay :) and nothing going on which wasn't
focused on finding someone to have sex with.  The women who hit on my
husband (A) were particularly aggressive, so much so that he ended up
gravitating back to me for "protection" (He's the shy type.) The wife of the
couple we'd come with (call her T and him G, just for reference) had been
hitting on him particularly aggressively, and he intimated to me that he was
really turned off by it.

As things started to wind down and A and I saw that folks were pairing (and
quading) off to head to hotel rooms, we chatted and decided that we were
ready to go home.  I went over to G first, and then to T, to thank them for
inviting us, and to let them know that we were heading home.  G was cordial,
but T, when I approached her said that she and G had gotten a room and were
expecting that we would be their guests for the evening.  When I thanked her
again, and said that we were flattered, but that we were both tired and had
decided to go home for the evening, and perhaps it was something that we
would want to do when we'd gotten to know them better, she got nasty... "You
mean you'd rather go home with your husband than have your brains f*k'd out
by two gorgeous men?!?" "Yes, actually, I would. Thanks." 

So, I hear you.  I accept that this was only one, isolated experience. But
in talking to others who have been to "social club" events, and in my
experience with friends who swinger and friends who are swingers, this
doesn't seem to be the exception as much as the rule.  So, yeah... the
culture just wasn't one that was a good fit for me.  

<<When arguing semantics, folks, PLEASE don't ignore what confusing
words does to make messes in the real world.>>

Aayayayay-MEN!  ASHE!  HO!  

Having broad, umbrella term definitions is bad enough, but sometimes
necessary (define "Pagan", "pagan", "Witch" and "witch"), but attempting to
avoid clarifying where definitions differentiate (what's the difference
between a "Pagan" and a "Witch"?  A "pagan" and a "witch"?) is sure to lead
to unclear expectations and miscommunications.  

I would think that folks in a poly group, especially, would understand the
need for clear expectations and crystal clear communications in good
relationships. 

NT, 
Cat