Re: [UUPoly-L] Public Archives Redux

["Michael Rios" <earthfather@cfnc.us>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tara Shakti-Ma

> 
> Hi Jasmine:
 
> What I hear you supporting is the concept of this list as a 
> place for advocacy and awareness work above all else.  
> Perhaps that emphasis has been lost on me, in my default 
> understanding that this list was meant more as a support for 
> UUs (and UU-friendlies) who simply happen  have the 
> orientation of being poly in common.  
> I see 2 distinct (though clearly not unrelated) interests/concerns here.
> 
>   So...how to possibly meet both needs?
> 
>   >> I see this list-serve primarily as a *support group* for those
>   >> in (and or curious about) the inner workings of
>   >> poly-relationships.  

>   >If UUPoly devolves from its intended purpose of networking 
> for the purposes I described above into just one more poly 
> support group, we will lose a powerful  tool in our work 
> toward making awareness and educational resources widely 
> available to all UUs. 

I am still unconvinced that *anyone* who isn't a subscriber has experienced
the archives as a powerful tool, or that they spread positive awareness in
any way.  It would be nice if they did, but that's not the way the internet
normally works.  If I want to find out about some organization, movement, or
concept, even if archives come up on a google search, I usually skip them in
favor of a more organized website, blog, or other format that has *far* less
irrelevant stuff.


>   And herein lies the rub and the possibly need for further 
> clarification.  If this list's intended purpose was 
> originally and forever for serving education and advocacy 
> work, then certainly conversation should remain in that vein 
> and likely remain open and transparent.  What awareness and 
> educational tools are available via accessing the archives of 
> the discussions that occur here?  Is there a clear, 
> user-friendly way that one would find them?  Wouldn't those 
> needs be better served on a web page that provided links to 
> the relevant documents?   

I had suggested this before.  90% or more (maybe 99%) of the archives are
duplicative or irrelevant to someone outside the list trying to learn about
UUPoly.  If there are valuable threads, get permission from the authors and
post them on the website.


> If on the other hand this list has 
> felt inclined to expand it's purpose to be also a support 
> group - about serving the personal, real life, intimate 
> dilemmas and questions people have about living 
> polyamorously, then I imagine that privacy would serve that 
> intent better.  So my question remains, how can this list 
> serve both purposes and satisfy both?   Or can't it?  Maybe 
> was never intended to???
> 
>    
>   >Keeping the archives public serves several purposes. One 
> of the purposes is transparency -- As we network, anyone can 
> watch what we're doing and see for  themselves what we are 
> "really up to"... and maybe they don't WANT to  subscribe to 
> the list. It also serves to keep us on our toes. If people 
> might be  watching, we will behave ourselves better--at least 
> I hope we will. 

Wow.  That is a formula for killing a lot of otherwise valuable discussion,
to my mind.  On a list like this, I expect a relatively sympathetic
audience; I'm not as careful to phrase things as precisely as I might in a
more public venue, and there are topics that I am confused about that I
wouldn't want thrown in my face at a later time by someone not in my
"tribe".

> It will make  us think twice, make us improve 
> ourselves. And lastly, it will remind us to think twice about 
> posting too many details about personal issues on a list  
> whose primary purpose is networking to create change. Keep us 
> on topic at least a little bit.

I agree-- it would have an overall chilling effect on the range of topics
covered.

 
> If 
> indeed this list's primary purpose is activism, then that 
> changes the whole landscape of my thoughts and opinion about 
> public vs. private archives.

I'm not so sure about that.  Even if the only purpose of this list is
activism, that activism would be far better served by using the list for
"rough drafts" (with private archives), and putting finished products on the
website.  When I am writing a document for public consumption, it frequently
happens that I read it over later, or someone else reads it, and realizes
that I said something in a way that could be badly misinterpreted.  At the
very least, there will be issues addressed incompletely or unclearly.  To my
mind, if public archives are part of the activism and public education, then
none of us should post anything that isn't in a fully edited, final draft,
ready-for-publication state.

> Perhaps the 2 purposes might 
> be better served if this list more boldly reclaimed it's 
> original purpose (as you state it to be), and a second list 
> be started, perhaps with a name such as "UUPolys- personal 
> discussions". 
> 
>   I'm not being a wise-ass here....I'm totally resonating 
> with your concerns...while also suggesting that the original 
> purpose and clarity may have gotten lost over time by the 
> thrust of a co-existing need for a space for UUs (and 
> UU-friendlies) to share and seek support in like-spirited 
> company on very personal and somewhat private "non-activist" matters. 

I'm involved with several groups that have parallel lists:  XX-activism and
XX-support.  It may be appropriate to do that here as well.

Michael Rios