[UUPoly-L] Defending George Tiller

Desmond Ravenstone <desmondravenstone@yahoo.com> · Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:45:43 -0000

With all due respect to James F ...

Dr. Tiller did not perform late-term abortions lightly.  Time after time, he saw women with crisis pregnancies involving severe fetal anomalies, including anencephaly (where the fetus does not develop most of the brain, skull and scalp).

Twelve years ago, he and his staff invited legislators, clergy and media to attend a "clinic experience" -- including some who had been arrested in protests blockading the clinic.  Each guest was given a patient profile, describing the medial realities in painful detail, then walked through the process that a patient went through with the staff.

In George Tiller's own words: âIt makes absolutely no sense to do all the prenatal testing if you get all this information and canât do anything about it. My feeling is that prenatal testing without prenatal choice is medical fraud.â

Desmond Ravenstone

"Do not do unto others as you expect they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same." -- George Bernard Shaw

http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com
http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone

--- On Mon, 6/1/09, James F <hazelstars@msn.com> wrote:

> From: James F <hazelstars@msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1
> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org
> Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 8:15 PM
> 
> I am partially still of older ethics concerning abortion. I
> love babies and want to make more of them when I find the
> right fertile woman for myself. 
> To me this doctor was a joke of a christian, killing babies
> [while being an usher at church on Sundays] in last
> trimester term who should have been put up for adoption.
> They are fully formed, fully human, not a stupid valueless
> term called fetus. While babies are being killed every 10
> seconds 
> 
> there are tear jerking commericals on TV for mistreated pet
> animals: cats and dogs telling pets are mistreated every 10
> seconds, 
> 
> while at the same time, millions of babies are
> aborted.....duhhhh WTF!!!???
> 
> Roe vrs Wade, three months later, TADAAA: Fish and Wildlife
> Preservation ACT {including plants}
> 
> Sorry, I think some things have gone off center too much
> numb non-thinking. The guy who shot the doctor had enough
> conviction as well as the doctor who thought he was doing a
> great service killing the unborn human. Fetus is a catch
> phrase to lessen the guilt of what is done. The new behind
> the skin untra sound/vision equipment says it all, shows it
> all.Â 
> 
> Then all these cat/dog tear jerking commercials wanting
> people to feel sorry for the animals, true that is a cruel
> thing to do to animals, how much more
> 
> to tear apart a baby as if it were dung being disected? If
> any comments come back blasting me well ya'll know what you
> can do. SEX is one thing, multi wives/husbands is another
> thing - IT was not wrong in the Old Testament, was not
> considered wrong until Mr. ST. Paul gave out macho ideas
> against woman and anti sex the convenient bad translations
> used in KJV.Â Yes I am opinionated too, not a follower
> of BS following the crowd group think feeling sorry for this
> doctor.Â If freedom of my speech is not welcom,
> owell...
> 
> regards Jim,
> 
> Â ÂÂÂ
> > From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org
> > Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1
> > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org
> > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:00:11 -0400
> > 
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> > than "Re: Contents of UUPoly-L digest..."
> > 
> > 
> > Today's Topics:
> > 
> > 1. Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Christine Heinsohn)
> > 2. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (CWLee)
> > 3. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Maria Snyder)
> > 
> > 
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:51:39 -0500
> > From: "Christine Heinsohn" <kb4wyr@fhrd.net>
> > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder
> > To: <KanPoly@yahoogroups.com>,
> <OKPoly@yahoogroups.com>,
> > <uupoly-l@uupa.org>,
> <mwpoly@yahoogroups.com>,
> > <harp@yahoogroups.com>,
> <wnypoly@yahoogroups.com>
> > Message-ID:
> <003a01c9e263$ef229330$cd67b990$@net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> > 
> > I think it's appropriate for the poly community to
> think about and talk
> > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good physician who
> stood for his
> > principles and would not back down from what he
> thought was right even
> > after being shot in the early 90's and being harassed
> by Kansas's former
> > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as steadfastly on
> my principles. May
> > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the
> transparent tattered veils
> > of religion wherever I find it.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Christine Heinsohn
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:13:39 -0700
> > From: "CWLee" <cwlee@post.harvard.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder
> > To: <uupoly-l@uupa.org>,
> <KanPoly@yahoogroups.com>,
> > <OKPoly@yahoogroups.com>,
> <mwpoly@yahoogroups.com>,
> > <harp@yahoogroups.com>,
> <wnypoly@yahoogroups.com>
> > Message-ID:
> <BE5F40C567194BBE973DF3864E39E89D@System4>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
> charset="iso-8859-1";
> > reply-type=original
> > 
> > 
> > OK, here are my comments:
> > 
> > 1. Murder is a crime. The suspect(s) deserves a fair
> trial 
> > and, if found guilty, punishment. I generally favor
> capital 
> > punishment for murder.
> > 
> > 2. I know of no connection between this murder and
> poly 
> > issues, so I don't understand why the poly community
> has any 
> > more concerns or need to speak out about this than any
> other 
> > subset of society.
> > 
> > 3. The victim is described as someone "who stood for
> his
> > principles and would not back down from what he
> thought was 
> > right". Although I know nothing about the suspect(s)
> in 
> > this case, the same statement ("he stood for his
> principles 
> > and would not back down from what he thought was
> right") can 
> > be made about some previous killers/shooters of
> abortion 
> > facilitators.
> > 
> > 4. Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, to
> know 
> > when to accept, for the good of the greater society,
> laws 
> > with which we personally disagree - and when to stand
> by our 
> > principles and disobey the laws of society. That
> applies to 
> > both sides of many recent issues in the USA.
> > 
> > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be
> ignored.
> > 
> > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee.
> > 
> > ----------
> > CWLee
> > Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited to
> sacred
> > cows. Believing we should hire for quality, not
> quotas, and
> > promote for performance, not preferences.
> > 
> > ========================
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Christine Heinsohn" <kb4wyr@fhrd.net>
> > To: <KanPoly@yahoogroups.com>;
> <OKPoly@yahoogroups.com>;
> 
> > <uupoly-l@uupa.org>;
> <mwpoly@yahoogroups.com>;
> 
> > <harp@yahoogroups.com>;
> <wnypoly@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM
> > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder
> > 
> > 
> > >I think it's appropriate for the poly community to
> think 
> > >about and talk
> > > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good
> physician who 
> > > stood for his
> > > principles and would not back down from what he
> thought 
> > > was right even
> > > after being shot in the early 90's and being
> harassed by 
> > > Kansas's former
> > > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as
> steadfastly on my 
> > > principles. May
> > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the
> 
> > > transparent tattered veils
> > > of religion wherever I find it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Christine Heinsohn
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Maria Snyder <miss_faery_maria@yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder
> > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org
> > Message-ID: <182880.55970.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> > 
> > While I don't know about all the poly groups that were
> copied on this, I do think that this is an issue that is
> near and dear to many UU's, as Dr.Tiller stood up for
> reproductive rights. As a Kansan, a UU, a Dir. of Religious
> Ed., and a mom?I am interested in?the topic and?I think that
> Christine's thoughts are relevent to?at least the UU group.
> 
> > ?
> > Maria?
> > 
> > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, CWLee <cwlee@post.harvard.edu>
> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > From: CWLee <cwlee@post.harvard.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder
> > To: uupoly-l@uupa.org,
> KanPoly@yahoogroups.com,
> OKPoly@yahoogroups.com,
> mwpoly@yahoogroups.com,
> harp@yahoogroups.com,
> wnypoly@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 11:13 PM
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > OK, here are my comments:
> > 
> > 1.? Murder is a crime.? The suspect(s) deserves a fair
> trial 
> > and, if found guilty, punishment.? I generally favor
> capital 
> > punishment for murder.
> > 
> > 2.? I know of no connection between this murder and
> poly 
> > issues, so I don't understand why the poly community
> has any 
> > more concerns or need to speak out about this than any
> other 
> > subset of society.
> > 
> > 3.? The victim is described as someone "who stood for
> his
> > principles and would not back down from what he
> thought was 
> > right".? Although I know nothing about the suspect(s)
> in 
> > this case, the same statement ("he stood for his
> principles 
> > and would not back down from what he thought was
> right") can 
> > be made about some previous killers/shooters of
> abortion 
> > facilitators.
> > 
> > 4.? Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, to
> know 
> > when to accept, for the good of the greater society,
> laws 
> > with which we personally disagree - and when to stand
> by our 
> > principles and disobey the laws of society.? That
> applies to 
> > both sides of many recent issues in the USA.
> > 
> > Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be
> ignored.
> > 
> > Best regards to all, Chuck Lee.
> > 
> > ----------
> > CWLee
> > Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited to
> sacred
> > cows.? Believing we should hire for quality, not
> quotas, and
> > promote for performance, not preferences.
> > 
> > ========================
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Christine Heinsohn" <kb4wyr@fhrd.net>
> > To: <KanPoly@yahoogroups.com>;
> <OKPoly@yahoogroups.com>;
> 
> > <uupoly-l@uupa.org>;
> <mwpoly@yahoogroups.com>;
> 
> > <harp@yahoogroups.com>;
> <wnypoly@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM
> > Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder
> > 
> > 
> > >I think it's appropriate for the poly community to
> think 
> > >about and talk
> > > about this murder.? Dr. Tiller was a good
> physician who 
> > > stood for his
> > > principles and would not back down from what? he
> thought 
> > > was right even
> > > after being shot in the early 90's and being
> harassed by 
> > > Kansas's former
> > > Attorney General.? I hope I can stand as
> steadfastly on my 
> > > principles.? May
> > > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the
> 
> > > transparent tattered veils
> > > of religion wherever I find it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Christine Heinsohn
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives.
> > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to
> reveal about yourself.
> > UUPoly-L mailing list
> > UUPoly-L@uupa.org
> > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The UUPoly-L mailing list has public archives.
> > Please keep that in mind when deciding how much to
> reveal about yourself.
> > UUPoly-L mailing list
> > UUPoly-L@uupa.org
> > http://www.uupa.org/mailman/listinfo/uupoly-l
> > 
> > 
> > End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1
> > ***************************************
> 
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