Re: [UUPoly-L] Defending George Tiller


"Desmond Ravenstone" <desmondravenstone@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dr. Tiller did not perform late-term abortions lightly. Time after time, he saw women with crisis pregnancies involving severe fetal anomalies, including anencephaly (where the fetus does not develop most of the brain, skull and scalp).

The phrase "Time after time" could be interpreted to mean exclusively; however, there are other news reports that say while he did do abortions on such severe cases, he "also aborted healthy late-term fetuses". Those abortions present me with a more difficult moral problem.

Best regards to all, Chuck Lee.

=====================================


Twelve years ago, he and his staff invited legislators, clergy and media to attend a "clinic experience" -- including some who had been arrested in protests blockading the clinic. Each guest was given a patient profile, describing the medial realities in painful detail, then walked through the process that a patient went through with the staff.

In George Tiller's own words: âIt makes absolutely no sense to do all the prenatal testing if you get all this information and canât do anything about it. My feeling is that prenatal testing without prenatal choice is medical fraud.â

Desmond Ravenstone

"Do not do unto others as you expect they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same." -- George Bernard Shaw

http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com
http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone


--- On Mon, 6/1/09, James F <hazelstars@msn.com> wrote:

From: James F <hazelstars@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1
To: uupoly-l@uupa.org
Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 8:15 PM

I am partially still of older ethics concerning abortion. I
love babies and want to make more of them when I find the
right fertile woman for myself.
To me this doctor was a joke of a christian, killing babies
[while being an usher at church on Sundays] in last
trimester term who should have been put up for adoption.
They are fully formed, fully human, not a stupid valueless
term called fetus. While babies are being killed every 10
seconds

there are tear jerking commericals on TV for mistreated pet
animals: cats and dogs telling pets are mistreated every 10
seconds,

while at the same time, millions of babies are
aborted.....duhhhh WTF!!!???

Roe vrs Wade, three months later, TADAAA: Fish and Wildlife
Preservation ACT {including plants}

Sorry, I think some things have gone off center too much
numb non-thinking. The guy who shot the doctor had enough
conviction as well as the doctor who thought he was doing a
great service killing the unborn human. Fetus is a catch
phrase to lessen the guilt of what is done. The new behind
the skin untra sound/vision equipment says it all, shows it
all.

Then all these cat/dog tear jerking commercials wanting
people to feel sorry for the animals, true that is a cruel
thing to do to animals, how much more

to tear apart a baby as if it were dung being disected? If
any comments come back blasting me well ya'll know what you
can do. SEX is one thing, multi wives/husbands is another
thing - IT was not wrong in the Old Testament, was not
considered wrong until Mr. ST. Paul gave out macho ideas
against woman and anti sex the convenient bad translations
used in KJV. Yes I am opinionated too, not a follower
of BS following the crowd group think feeling sorry for this
doctor. If freedom of my speech is not welcom,
owell...

regards Jim,


> From: uupoly-l-request@uupa.org
> Subject: UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1
> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org
> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:00:11 -0400
>
> Send UUPoly-L mailing list submissions to
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Christine Heinsohn)
> 2. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (CWLee)
> 3. Re: Dr. George Tiller's Murder (Maria Snyder)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:51:39 -0500
> From: "Christine Heinsohn" <kb4wyr@fhrd.net>
> Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder
> To: <KanPoly@yahoogroups.com>,
<OKPoly@yahoogroups.com>,
> <uupoly-l@uupa.org>,
<mwpoly@yahoogroups.com>,
> <harp@yahoogroups.com>,
<wnypoly@yahoogroups.com>
> Message-ID:
<003a01c9e263$ef229330$cd67b990$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> I think it's appropriate for the poly community to
think about and talk
> about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good physician who
stood for his
> principles and would not back down from what he
thought was right even
> after being shot in the early 90's and being harassed
by Kansas's former
> Attorney General. I hope I can stand as steadfastly on
my principles. May
> I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the
transparent tattered veils
> of religion wherever I find it.
>
>
>
> Christine Heinsohn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:13:39 -0700
> From: "CWLee" <cwlee@post.harvard.edu>
> Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder
> To: <uupoly-l@uupa.org>,
<KanPoly@yahoogroups.com>,
> <OKPoly@yahoogroups.com>,
<mwpoly@yahoogroups.com>,
> <harp@yahoogroups.com>,
<wnypoly@yahoogroups.com>
> Message-ID:
<BE5F40C567194BBE973DF3864E39E89D@System4>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>
> OK, here are my comments:
>
> 1. Murder is a crime. The suspect(s) deserves a fair
trial
> and, if found guilty, punishment. I generally favor
capital
> punishment for murder.
>
> 2. I know of no connection between this murder and
poly
> issues, so I don't understand why the poly community
has any
> more concerns or need to speak out about this than any
other
> subset of society.
>
> 3. The victim is described as someone "who stood for
his
> principles and would not back down from what he
thought was
> right". Although I know nothing about the suspect(s)
in
> this case, the same statement ("he stood for his
principles
> and would not back down from what he thought was
right") can
> be made about some previous killers/shooters of
abortion
> facilitators.
>
> 4. Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, to
know
> when to accept, for the good of the greater society,
laws
> with which we personally disagree - and when to stand
by our
> principles and disobey the laws of society. That
applies to
> both sides of many recent issues in the USA.
>
> Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be
ignored.
>
> Best regards to all, Chuck Lee.
>
> ----------
> CWLee
> Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited to
sacred
> cows. Believing we should hire for quality, not
quotas, and
> promote for performance, not preferences.
>
> ========================
>
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christine Heinsohn" <kb4wyr@fhrd.net>
> To: <KanPoly@yahoogroups.com>;
<OKPoly@yahoogroups.com>;

> <uupoly-l@uupa.org>;
<mwpoly@yahoogroups.com>;

> <harp@yahoogroups.com>;
<wnypoly@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM
> Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder
>
>
> >I think it's appropriate for the poly community to
think
> >about and talk
> > about this murder. Dr. Tiller was a good
physician who
> > stood for his
> > principles and would not back down from what he
thought
> > was right even
> > after being shot in the early 90's and being
harassed by
> > Kansas's former
> > Attorney General. I hope I can stand as
steadfastly on my
> > principles. May
> > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the

> > transparent tattered veils
> > of religion wherever I find it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Christine Heinsohn
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Maria Snyder <miss_faery_maria@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder
> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org
> Message-ID: > <182880.55970.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> While I don't know about all the poly groups that were
copied on this, I do think that this is an issue that is
near and dear to many UU's, as Dr.Tiller stood up for
reproductive rights. As a Kansan, a UU, a Dir. of Religious
Ed., and a mom?I am interested in?the topic and?I think that
Christine's thoughts are relevent to?at least the UU group.

> ?
> Maria?
>
> --- On Sun, 5/31/09, CWLee <cwlee@post.harvard.edu>
wrote:
>
>
> From: CWLee <cwlee@post.harvard.edu>
> Subject: Re: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder
> To: uupoly-l@uupa.org,
KanPoly@yahoogroups.com,
OKPoly@yahoogroups.com,
mwpoly@yahoogroups.com,
harp@yahoogroups.com,
wnypoly@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 11:13 PM
>
>
>
> OK, here are my comments:
>
> 1.? Murder is a crime.? The suspect(s) deserves a fair
trial
> and, if found guilty, punishment.? I generally favor
capital
> punishment for murder.
>
> 2.? I know of no connection between this murder and
poly
> issues, so I don't understand why the poly community
has any
> more concerns or need to speak out about this than any
other
> subset of society.
>
> 3.? The victim is described as someone "who stood for
his
> principles and would not back down from what he
thought was
> right".? Although I know nothing about the suspect(s)
in
> this case, the same statement ("he stood for his
principles
> and would not back down from what he thought was
right") can
> be made about some previous killers/shooters of
abortion
> facilitators.
>
> 4.? Sometimes it can be very difficult, morally, to
know
> when to accept, for the good of the greater society,
laws
> with which we personally disagree - and when to stand
by our
> principles and disobey the laws of society.? That
applies to
> both sides of many recent issues in the USA.
>
> Rational dialog welcome; emotional rants will be
ignored.
>
> Best regards to all, Chuck Lee.
>
> ----------
> CWLee
> Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited to
sacred
> cows.? Believing we should hire for quality, not
quotas, and
> promote for performance, not preferences.
>
> ========================
>
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christine Heinsohn" <kb4wyr@fhrd.net>
> To: <KanPoly@yahoogroups.com>;
<OKPoly@yahoogroups.com>;

> <uupoly-l@uupa.org>;
<mwpoly@yahoogroups.com>;

> <harp@yahoogroups.com>;
<wnypoly@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:51 PM
> Subject: [UUPoly-L] Dr. George Tiller's Murder
>
>
> >I think it's appropriate for the poly community to
think
> >about and talk
> > about this murder.? Dr. Tiller was a good
physician who
> > stood for his
> > principles and would not back down from what? he
thought
> > was right even
> > after being shot in the early 90's and being
harassed by
> > Kansas's former
> > Attorney General.? I hope I can stand as
steadfastly on my
> > principles.? May
> > I stand down the tyranny of hatred dressed in the

> > transparent tattered veils
> > of religion wherever I find it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Christine Heinsohn
>
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>
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>
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> End of UUPoly-L Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1
> ***************************************

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